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  1. #21
    Hadou-kou is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    They never truly said that the True Warrior and True Demon were supposed to fight. All they said was that the true warrior would have absolute power and the true demon would have all of those powers, except use them for their own purposes. They never said that they had to be two separate people. Like in my previous post, it seems like the true warrior/demon/"god" could be one person, but it depends on what that person does with that power. I'm starting to believe if this person does exist, then it might be nagi. Without him being the main hero, he's definitely changed since the beginning of the story. The thing about him is that it seems as if he gains the best qualities from his friends and family, which helps him control his dragon. His dragon is definitely powerful, probably the most powerful out of any red feather in the series.

    He isn't the annoying "i'll fight anyone and everyone just to get stronger" kid from the beginning. He's fighting with a noble purpose and he knows just how strong he is compared to the more normal characters. With regards to Souichiro/Sohaku merger, Souhaku will have to awaken or else they can't revive Maya. The thing is, Souichiro could possess the ability to break Souhaku's control with his own spirit.

  2. #22
    xxDoLLarBiLLxx is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadou-kou View Post
    They never truly said that the True Warrior and True Demon were supposed to fight. All they said was that the true warrior would have absolute power and the true demon would have all of those powers, except use them for their own purposes. They never said that they had to be two separate people. Like in my previous post, it seems like the true warrior/demon/"god" could be one person, but it depends on what that person does with that power. I'm starting to believe if this person does exist, then it might be nagi. Without him being the main hero, he's definitely changed since the beginning of the story. The thing about him is that it seems as if he gains the best qualities from his friends and family, which helps him control his dragon. His dragon is definitely powerful, probably the most powerful out of any red feather in the series.

    He isn't the annoying "i'll fight anyone and everyone just to get stronger" kid from the beginning. He's fighting with a noble purpose and he knows just how strong he is compared to the more normal characters. With regards to Souichiro/Sohaku merger, Souhaku will have to awaken or else they can't revive Maya. The thing is, Souichiro could possess the ability to break Souhaku's control with his own spirit.
    yea i guess so because the SOuhaku takeover might happen sooner than we think because Souichiro is fighting a red feather right now and Souhaku is just waiting for Souichirou to start drowning in his power due to the "red feather" Resonance effect and he'll take over. Technically if Souchirou has all the red feather blood, doesn't he have the dragon eye also?

    to answer ur post, I think Oh Great! will make Souhaku takeover first before letting Nagi regain control.

  3. #23
    BlackAngel84 is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    I wouldn't necessarily rely on the Chinese scanlations to be entirely accurate in translating the material. In any case, the way I see it is according to Dougen's plan, a "true" demon was supposed to be created in order for the true warrior to come out. As he put it, "in order for an ultimate good to awaken/exist, it must have an ultimate evil to defeat." This, to me, signifies that the true warrior and true demon are supposed to be two separate entities fighting for dominance. They haven't said anywhere in the manga, to the best of my knowledge, that the true warrior/demon/god was or is one person.

    My speculation is that Souichiro, with all of the red feather powers at his disposal, could become either the true demon or the true god. It all depends on two things: 1) whether or not he's able to control all of those powers, which he's done a fairly good job of doing so far; and 2) whether or not he's able to resist/break Souhaku's influence on his mind. Either way, Souichiro has a tough time ahead of him as there is no telling if he'll still be able to control all of the rest of the powers lurking around the school/country once the resonance effect starts to draw them in. That, after all, was Souhaku's plan to draw all of the red feather powers into one "container".

    With Maya having the Amaterasu gate, Souichiro bearing the role of Susanoo due to all of his latent power, Aya possessing the Dragon's Eye, and Mitsuomi bearing the role of (we believe) Tsukiyomi, I still believe the closest candidate to being the true warrior is Masataka. The only other candidates would be Asshat, who's injured and doesn't really want to fight anymore; and Bob, who has natural talent as a fighter due to his rhythmic style, well-built physique, and intuition. However, he lacks both the experience and skill that the others seem to possess at this point, and it still isn't clear if Oh Great! has any major plans for him anytime soon, if at all. Hopefully he does, as I wouldn't mind seeing Bob get more action rather than pointless, random, gratuitous sex scenes.

  4. #24
    Hadou-kou is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlackAngel84 View Post
    I wouldn't necessarily rely on the Chinese scanlations to be entirely accurate in translating the material. In any case, the way I see it is according to Dougen's plan, a "true" demon was supposed to be created in order for the true warrior to come out. As he put it, "in order for an ultimate good to awaken/exist, it must have an ultimate evil to defeat." This, to me, signifies that the true warrior and true demon are supposed to be two separate entities fighting for dominance. They haven't said anywhere in the manga, to the best of my knowledge, that the true warrior/demon/god was or is one person.

    My speculation is that Souichiro, with all of the red feather powers at his disposal, could become either the true demon or the true god. It all depends on two things: 1) whether or not he's able to control all of those powers, which he's done a fairly good job of doing so far; and 2) whether or not he's able to resist/break Souhaku's influence on his mind. Either way, Souichiro has a tough time ahead of him as there is no telling if he'll still be able to control all of the rest of the powers lurking around the school/country once the resonance effect starts to draw them in. That, after all, was Souhaku's plan to draw all of the red feather powers into one "container".

    With Maya having the Amaterasu gate, Souichiro bearing the role of Susanoo due to all of his latent power, Aya possessing the Dragon's Eye, and Mitsuomi bearing the role of (we believe) Tsukiyomi, I still believe the closest candidate to being the true warrior is Masataka. The only other candidates would be Asshat, who's injured and doesn't really want to fight anymore; and Bob, who has natural talent as a fighter due to his rhythmic style, well-built physique, and intuition. However, he lacks both the experience and skill that the others seem to possess at this point, and it still isn't clear if Oh Great! has any major plans for him anytime soon, if at all. Hopefully he does, as I wouldn't mind seeing Bob get more action rather than pointless, random, gratuitous sex scenes.
    The chinese translation is like 90% more accurate than the English translations since the chinese symbols and sayings are closer to japanese sayings than the english ones. Only Dougen said that the True Warrior needs an Ultimate Evil to fight against and that doesn't mean that it definitely has to be two different characters. The Black Dragon or the Flying Dragon: Their the same dragon, but what the actions and nature of their spirit determine what dragon they become. If he was going with two people, then look what the Shin/Mitsuomi fight got them: One killing himself and the other coming very close to death. Neither Shin or Bunshichi have fought Mitsuomi at a hundred percent. Shin, without his dragon's eyes and Bunshichi not willing to land the finishing blow. Mitsuomi has shown to care for his brother, so I doubt he would kill him. My opinion is that if there is a "True Warrior", then it would be one of the three siblings (Which at this points looks to be Maya, Souichiro, and Mitsuomi-the central characters to the whole story) and that Masataka's role is to change Mitsuomi's view about everything, thereby changing the Wheel of Fate.

  5. #25
    xxDoLLarBiLLxx is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadou-kou View Post
    The chinese translation is like 90% more accurate than the English translations since the chinese symbols and sayings are closer to japanese sayings than the english ones. Only Dougen said that the True Warrior needs an Ultimate Evil to fight against and that doesn't mean that it definitely has to be two different characters. The Black Dragon or the Flying Dragon: Their the same dragon, but what the actions and nature of their spirit determine what dragon they become. If he was going with two people, then look what the Shin/Mitsuomi fight got them: One killing himself and the other coming very close to death. Neither Shin or Bunshichi have fought Mitsuomi at a hundred percent. Shin, without his dragon's eyes and Bunshichi not willing to land the finishing blow. Mitsuomi has shown to care for his brother, so I doubt he would kill him. My opinion is that if there is a "True Warrior", then it would be one of the three siblings (Which at this points looks to be Maya, Souichiro, and Mitsuomi-the central characters to the whole story) and that Masataka's role is to change Mitsuomi's view about everything, thereby changing the Wheel of Fate.
    Yea, i kinda agree with the translations thinng because Numerous times, I've noticed how exaggerated the dialogues are. don't take it the wrong way, I love how MTranslations have worked on tenten since Jump, so even if one or two errors might happen, i'm still good with it since its free.

    As far as masataka, although it seems OH Great! likes him as a character, Souichirou is still who he went as his Main character, so if we follow manga Lore, Nagi will be the true warrior/savior. I do hope that he writes some more about the relationship between Maya and Souichirou. But if one thing really piss me off is that Oh great! never made Nagi act like the head of the Nagi family which is the leader of the Red feathers and junior head of the 12 families.

  6. #26
    BlackAngel84 is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadou-kou View Post
    The chinese translation is like 90% more accurate than the English translations since the chinese symbols and sayings are closer to japanese sayings than the english ones. Only Dougen said that the True Warrior needs an Ultimate Evil to fight against and that doesn't mean that it definitely has to be two different characters. The Black Dragon or the Flying Dragon: Their the same dragon, but what the actions and nature of their spirit determine what dragon they become. If he was going with two people, then look what the Shin/Mitsuomi fight got them: One killing himself and the other coming very close to death. Neither Shin or Bunshichi have fought Mitsuomi at a hundred percent. Shin, without his dragon's eyes and Bunshichi not willing to land the finishing blow. Mitsuomi has shown to care for his brother, so I doubt he would kill him. My opinion is that if there is a "True Warrior", then it would be one of the three siblings (Which at this points looks to be Maya, Souichiro, and Mitsuomi-the central characters to the whole story) and that Masataka's role is to change Mitsuomi's view about everything, thereby changing the Wheel of Fate.

    Mitsuomi seemed to care for his friends Bunshichi and Shin as well, but that didn't stop him from nearly killing Shin and actually killing Bunshichi. So I would say he could and would definitely kill Masataka if he got in Mitsuomi's way. And Masataka's job can't be to change the wheel of fate, since he's already made the claim that he's going to destroy it. Not to mention that Souichiro believes he has the strength to destroy it as well. The black dragon and the flying dragon, neither of them could represent being the true warrior, but the true demon and the true god respectively. If Oh Great! does decide to go with Masataka being the True Warrior, it wouldn't take away from Souichiro still being the main character and being central to the plot. The way I see it, being the main character doesn't equate to playing every major role in the series. As someone mentioned earlier in another post, this isn't the kind of series where one person is the be all/end all, it's anyone's ball game at this point.

    Also, Shin did fight Mitsuomi at a hundred percent, and he did it with a handicap. He was the one holding back during the that fight, not Mitsuomi. Bunshichi fought Mitsuomi at full strength too, given that he was the one who had just finished fighting Mitsuomi's clone when Mitsuomi struck him while his back was turned, just like he did with Masataka. Mitsuomi isn't powerful enough to land a killing blow on someone of Bunshichi's caliber without holding back. But I guess you're gonna say that doesn't matter too, right?

  7. #27
    Hadou-kou is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    ^You know you basically agreed with everything I said?

    The black dragon and the flying dragon, neither of them could represent being the true warrior, but the true demon and the true god respectively.
    Makiko said that The dragon is the same, but they can take two different forms: Either become the Black Dragon and strike the Earth (Abusing their god-like power to cause chaos and destruction), or become the Flying Dragon and soar through Heaven (Using their god-like power to help others and save the world). ONE dragon, but two natures depending on the choice. Dougen said that this True God would possess all of the power and he would control that person to rise back up in power. Mitsuomi said that he would defeat even that person if it messed with his plans. The only person who can gather all of that power and actually be a god at this point is Souichiro. But like most of people kept telling him: the fight with oneself is the greatest fight one would face.

    Shin did fight Mitsuomi at a hundred percent, and he did it with a handicap. He was the one holding back during the that fight, not Mitsuomi.
    You're saying that Mitsuomi was fighting at 100% right? Shin wanted someone to take him out if he couldn't gain control of his Dragon Eyes. Trying to control his instinct of just killing Mitsuomi right then and there. Like you said, Mitsuomi was fighting at 100% against Bunshichi too, but Bunshichi obviously would've won if he was a killer. Masataka isn't a fighter by nature, but has the experience and skills to make him a very formidable martial artist, but he can never reach the level that other characters can go because he only has a purpose in fighting, like everyone else. You can't say that his purpose is the most noble cause everyone else on the team basically has the same purpose to get stronger at this point. He's fine as he is. He doesn't need some fancy title.
    Last edited by Hadou-kou; 07-05-2008 at 06:10 PM.

  8. #28
    BlueDemon is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    I didn´t read all the posts,but these things about the legend are pretty interesting ^^
    And I thought the God figure correspond to the characters in the way they were said (I forgot the order....but yeah...lol)
    and when did 116 come out? (I mean the scanlated version..)
    at the end of the manga,someone has to make a real good "story-map" (I´m sorry if somebody already has - okay,I know there are already some of those things,but I mean a really good one :P) . I´m too lazy to do it myself - and don´t misunderstand me,it´s just a suggestion ^^

  9. #29
    seiryuu1 is offline Member Newbie
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    Ara, lets keep it friendly guys and gals, but from what i understand when dougen was explaining the nature of bu he said that "strength" was initially developed in order to protect the weak from the strong and keep "peace". So from this i interpret that the true warrior would be somebody who fought to do just this. In all honesty in my eyes the person that embodies the most would have to be masataka. I have no doubts that souchirous spirit will be able to overpower sohaku's but that wont be a fight to protect the "weak" or keep the peace. It will be something like the ultimate demon exorcist trying to exorcise fighting the ultimate demon. Wherein upon sohaku's defeat souchirou would hopefully devour the burning dragons gate and slay dragons for the rest of time.(Hopefully keeping his moms wishes alive) As far as the chinese translations go, i have no experience with them but i will accept the fact that the chinese characters are closer to the literal translation than the romaji or english letters but the same concepts and words are conveyed for the most part in both mediums. I definitely want to see Bob kick some serious ass because he's the only character that hasnt had more than one serious fight shown and hes definitely been getting stronger the entire time so that would be nice to see what he can finally do after having actual fighting training and not just this weight bull. Dont get me wrong, the fight with the F chick showed that its definitely payed off but in all honesty he's probably the only main character(other than asshat) in the manga that cant even fire off a forged needle. (Although if he ever does learn how to i would love to see him "kick" one off rather than punch.)

  10. #30
    BlackAngel84 is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hadou-kou View Post
    ^You know you basically agreed with everything I said?


    Makiko said that The dragon is the same, but they can take two different forms: Either become the Black Dragon and strike the Earth (Abusing their god-like power to cause chaos and destruction), or become the Flying Dragon and soar through Heaven (Using their god-like power to help others and save the world). ONE dragon, but two natures depending on the choice. Dougen said that this True God would possess all of the power and he would control that person to rise back up in power. Mitsuomi said that he would defeat even that person if it messed with his plans. The only person who can gather all of that power and actually be a god at this point is Souichiro. But like most of people kept telling him: the fight with oneself is the greatest fight one would face.


    You're saying that Mitsuomi was fighting at 100% right? Shin wanted someone to take him out if he couldn't gain control of his Dragon Eyes. Trying to control his instinct of just killing Mitsuomi right then and there. Like you said, Mitsuomi was fighting at 100% against Bunshichi too, but Bunshichi obviously would've won if he was a killer. Masataka isn't a fighter by nature, but has the experience and skills to make him a very formidable martial artist, but he can never reach the level that other characters can go because he only has a purpose in fighting, like everyone else. You can't say that his purpose is the most noble cause everyone else on the team basically has the same purpose to get stronger at this point. He's fine as he is. He doesn't need some fancy title.
    You're right, Masataka is fine as he is, but I wouldn't go so far as to say that he's not a fighter by nature. He comes from a family whose legacy is built around the martial arts and fighting. There's too much potential that he's shown already to not be labeled as being a natural fighter. Also, Souichiro is fine as he is as well, he doesn't need a fancy title either. But that has yet to stop you or other people from labeling him with just about every title relevant to the series. This was exactly my point when I said that you were applying one thing to Masataka, but not to everyone else. If Souichiro is already filling the role of Susanoo AND the demon exorcist, then he wouldn't need the title of the true demon/god/warrior or whatever other title you feel is relevant. He should be fine as he is too, shouldn't he? And also, the way I see it is Masataka is pretty much the only character out of the whole Jyuken club who isn't fighting for personal reasons. Right now, he's fighting to destroy the wheel of fate, thereby freeing Souichiro and everyone else trapped inside of the wheel. And he even told Bunshichi that he would make a place in it for himself if there was none already there for him, which he's basically doing by taking on his vow to destroy the wheel. So yeah, I would say he definitely is showing the most noble cause, and yet you don't seem to be acknowledging any of this at all.
    Last edited by BlackAngel84; 07-06-2008 at 04:41 AM.

 

 
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