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  1. #31
    Urameshi-sama is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    ^But Masataka's been doing it longer and been in Mitsuomi's shadow his entire liffe (thats another motivator for discipline is my point). Bob and Nagi were both just thugs before, and now they're training because they actually met some good fighters (by TT standards).

    Most of Nagi's power gains have been due to releasing his Dragon powers involuntarily or others developing it for him. Masataka doesn't have that and everything he does and shows is a result of his personal training.

  2. #32
    amxed is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urameshi-sama View Post
    ^But Masataka's been doing it longer and been in Mitsuomi's shadow his entire liffe (thats another motivator for discipline is my point). Bob and Nagi were both just thugs before, and now they're training because they actually met some good fighters (by TT standards).

    Most of Nagi's power gains have been due to releasing his Dragon powers involuntarily or others developing it for him. Masataka doesn't have that and everything he does and shows is a result of his personal training.
    hear, hear.

    one of the reasons I like Masataka is because he's "different" from other people. He's like Bunshichi, with no real special Dragon power or anything, but is able to match up to other Dragon powers.

  3. #33
    vphamv is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urameshi-sama View Post
    ^But Masataka's been doing it longer and been in Mitsuomi's shadow his entire liffe (thats another motivator for discipline is my point). Bob and Nagi were both just thugs before, and now they're training because they actually met some good fighters (by TT standards).

    Most of Nagi's power gains have been due to releasing his Dragon powers involuntarily or others developing it for him. Masataka doesn't have that and everything he does and shows is a result of his personal training.
    Maybe Masataka has been doing it longer, but it does not seem like he trains as hard as the other two. And Nagi learned Mitsoumi's family special attack w/out depending on learning it the other way. So basically what I'm saying is that yeah, Nagi does gain more experience but it's not like he's doing it the easy way. He tries pretty hard too.

    Plus I really don't get it, how is Nagi not training just as hard? The only difference so far is that he's been luckier than Masataka has been. Thus far all I've seen is that Masataka trains consistently, while Nagi has fought with the odds against him. Try and point out any of his battles were he had the obvious advantage, while looking at Masataka, all he had to do was beat Nagi who was super weak at the time, Mitsoumi's metro sexual underling, Madoka, and Fuu. I don't see his great skills, fighting a bunch of losers. :/
    Quote Originally Posted by amxed View Post
    hear, hear.

    one of the reasons I like Masataka is because he's "different" from other people. He's like Bunshichi, with no real special Dragon power or anything, but is able to match up to other Dragon powers.
    Actually now that I think about it, he's not such a unique character. If anything I wouldn't say he's like Bunshinchi, more like his sidekick since their personalities are almost so a like, but Masataka just isnt there. Sure he's got the pervy and idiotic side, but he doesn't have the brute strength or badassness. It would be no contest for Shin with or without Reiki. >_>

    And on the subject of him being the true warrior, I don't think Masataka is. IMO he hasn'y progressed enough to really touch being the "true warrior", just my guess though. Meh
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  4. #34
    amxed is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by vphamv View Post
    Maybe Masataka has been doing it longer, but it does not seem like he trains as hard as the other two. And Nagi learned Mitsoumi's family special attack w/out depending on learning it the other way. So basically what I'm saying is that yeah, Nagi does gain more experience but it's not like he's doing it the easy way. He tries pretty hard too.
    I'm not saying Nagi's not been training. But are you going to ignore the time Masataka spent on perfecting his martial arts? Nagi did train, yeah, but he didn't train that seriously or perfecting a move ever since he discovered his dragon and started to becoming used to fight in it.

    Quote Originally Posted by vphamv View Post
    Plus I really don't get it, how is Nagi not training just as hard? The only difference so far is that he's been luckier than Masataka has been. Thus far all I've seen is that Masataka trains consistently, while Nagi has fought with the odds against him. Try and point out any of his battles were he had the obvious advantage, while looking at Masataka, all he had to do was beat Nagi who was super weak at the time, Mitsoumi's metro sexual underling, Madoka, and Fuu. I don't see his great skills, fighting a bunch of losers. :/
    The thing is Nagi is the main character and Masataka is a side character, and in order for a story to sound good, the main character always must go against the boss and the big guys. I bet if Masataka fought Nagi's old opponenets, he would have defeated them.

    Quote Originally Posted by vphamv View Post
    Actually now that I think about it, he's not such a unique character. If anything I wouldn't say he's like Bunshinchi, more like his sidekick since their personalities are almost so a like, but Masataka just isnt there. Sure he's got the pervy and idiotic side, but he doesn't have the brute strength or badassness. It would be no contest for Shin with or without Reiki. >_>
    I'm pretty sure Masataka showed both brute strength and badassness when he was beating up Nagi during those first chapters. And now you're underestimating Masataka a bit here...when I say "unique character," I don't mean the strongest character...I mean that despite being a non-dragon user, he can stand up to the people with "powers," like the skull guy. And when you say no contest for Shin with or without Reiki...Shin is/was strong, there's no doubt about that. But "no contest," I think, is pretty one-sided because Masataka had earned respect from people and he had shown his fighting capabilities.

    Quote Originally Posted by vphamv View Post
    And on the subject of him being the true warrior, I don't think Masataka is. IMO he hasn'y progressed enough to really touch being the "true warrior", just my guess though. Meh
    I think being the "true warrior" is not just strength. It is also connected with mental strength. Masataka showed his mental development and matured throughout the story. When Masataka broke the skull guy's seal, Souhaku mumbled ["Takayanagi Masataka...true warrior...?"], which means even Souhaku is speculating on this. Also, being a true warrior, in my opinion, is about protecting others around you and always placing them before you, which Masataka has always done during fights (in spite of Bunshichi telling Masataka to run away when skull guy was about the obliterate everything, Masataka jumped in and saved everyone, and in the bowling place, when Masataka was beating up 80 people on his own, he thought of Bob and his girlfriend's safety, too). So when you say he hasn't progressed enough, it really depends on what you're saying-physically, because he sure didn't show a physical improvement much, or mentally because he has overcome many of his fears, such as his fear of people with "powers."

  5. #35
    SSJ
    SSJ is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    Masataka is not the main character, so it is natural to be weaker than SOuichiro

    Besides that he is an super-pervert, always thinking the one thing.

    Well also we didn't see him really fighting, he almost didn't get injuries at all.

    SO hard to say, he is just a filler-character, not more.

  6. #36
    Urameshi-sama is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    ^Thats the stupidest thing I've heard.

    Masataka is Souichirou's flip-side/yang. Masataka manages to be a very formidable character despite having no demon powers. We've already seen his mental strength and that he has the potential to bet the true warrior or whatever that title was.

    Saying Masataka didn't work as hard as Bob or Nagi is a joke. He's been working longer and harder towards strength because he has been surrounded by strong yet unstable parties with not completely moral causes(Mistuomi, his dad, the red feathers). Masataka seems to be the most mentally secure person with the best motives and intentions for everyone. He is the mediator. Just because we don't see his training being exclusived as much as Nagi doesn't mean he doesn't try as hard. Both Nagi and Masataka have to deal with the social issues of their families and have to cope with it in their own ways, but Souicirou's growth has been due in large part to a birthright manipulated by others rather than pure hard work, like Masataka, a person without born or latent demon powers, has to do.

    One thing that's been pretty clearly expressed about everyone in the Jyukenbu club is that they all work their hardest because they have their own goals they want to fulfill. The red feather members are doing this by exposing and using their birthrights. The white feathers(Masataka) and the normal people (Bob) are doing this through pure strenuous training. That doesn't make them any weaker, just less flashy. For all the birthright and demon blood they lack, they have to make up with extra pure hard work. Thats why Bunshichi, Masataka, Mitsuomi, and Bob are so impressive. They manage to maintain such a level of equivalence/superiority among people who have such a huge blood advantage just through much more training and discipline.

  7. #37
    vphamv is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by amed
    I'm not saying Nagi's not been training. But are you going to ignore the time Masataka spent on perfecting his martial arts? Nagi did train, yeah, but he didn't train that seriously or perfecting a move ever since he discovered his dragon and started to becoming used to fight in it.
    Not ignoring, I just don't see how one person continuously perfecting the same thing is as difficult as trying to learn completely new things while perfecting it at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by amed
    The thing is Nagi is the main character and Masataka is a side character, and in order for a story to sound good, the main character always must go against the boss and the big guys. I bet if Masataka fought Nagi's old opponenets, he would have defeated them.
    That's the thing though, it's just purely speculation and no proof, no real examples of him actually fighting anyone with demon blood.

    Quote Originally Posted by amed
    I'm pretty sure Masataka showed both brute strength and badassness when he was beating up Nagi during those first chapters. And now you're underestimating Masataka a bit here...when I say "unique character," I don't mean the strongest character...I mean that despite being a non-dragon user, he can stand up to the people with "powers," like the skull guy. And when you say no contest for Shin with or without Reiki...Shin is/was strong, there's no doubt about that. But "no contest," I think, is pretty one-sided because Masataka had earned respect from people and he had shown his fighting capabilities.
    Fuu did not have any powers, and there have been plenty of people who have protected others. Plus it wasn't even that hard a battle. Also, do you think Masataka can beat Mitsoumi as he is? I'd say no, he got his ass handed to him at the bowling ally, and if he can't beat Mitsoumi how would he beat Shin. Before Shin died he kicked EVERYONE'S ass, then killed himself.

    Quote Originally Posted by amed
    I think being the "true warrior" is not just strength. It is also connected with mental strength. Masataka showed his mental development and matured throughout the story. When Masataka broke the skull guy's seal, Souhaku mumbled ["Takayanagi Masataka...true warrior...?"], which means even Souhaku is speculating on this. Also, being a true warrior, in my opinion, is about protecting others around you and always placing them before you, which Masataka has always done during fights (in spite of Bunshichi telling Masataka to run away when skull guy was about the obliterate everything, Masataka jumped in and saved everyone, and in the bowling place, when Masataka was beating up 80 people on his own, he thought of Bob and his girlfriend's safety, too). So when you say he hasn't progressed enough, it really depends on what you're saying-physically, because he sure didn't show a physical improvement much, or mentally because he has overcome many of his fears, such as his fear of people with "powers."
    Err...I wasn't talking about what we think is a true warrior, I was talking about what Masataka's dad was considering a the "True Warrior". But yeah, I said I don't think he's going to be the True Warrior, not that it's impossible for him to be it but that I dont see it happening.

    Quote Originally Posted by SSJ View Post
    Masataka is not the main character, so it is natural to be weaker than SOuichiro

    Besides that he is an super-pervert, always thinking the one thing.

    Well also we didn't see him really fighting, he almost didn't get injuries at all.

    SO hard to say, he is just a filler-character, not more.
    That's what I've been saying, there hasn't been a battle for him were he actually gets any cuts or bruises. No challenge at all, he just overwhelms all the non demoned powered people and that's it. No other examples have been shown so far.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urameshi-sama View Post
    ^Thats the stupidest thing I've heard.

    Masataka is Souichirou's flip-side/yang. Masataka manages to be a very formidable character despite having no demon powers. We've already seen his mental strength and that he has the potential to bet the true warrior or whatever that title was.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urameshi-sama View Post
    Saying Masataka didn't work as hard as Bob or Nagi is a joke. He's been working longer and harder towards strength because he has been surrounded by strong yet unstable parties with not completely moral causes(Mistuomi, his dad, the red feathers). Masataka seems to be the most mentally secure person with the best motives and intentions for everyone. He is the mediator. Just because we don't see his training being exclusived as much as Nagi doesn't mean he doesn't try as hard. Both Nagi and Masataka have to deal with the social issues of their families and have to cope with it in their own ways, but Souicirou's growth has been due in large part to a birthright manipulated by others rather than pure hard work, like Masataka, a person without born or latent demon powers, has to do.
    Okay, once again it's just speculation. From what we've seen where has it been shown Masataka vigorously training has hard as Bob and Nagi? Ever since those two joined the club they've been training nonstop. Especially Bob, he even works out during class.

    Plus you're acting like when Nagi got those powers, it was such a breeze and effortless to do so. Yeah...defeating opponents when the odds are against you and almost getting killed all the time is so easy.~

    If you guys want to make assumptions than I'll make my own, I bet Masataka knows that one family technique, even though he's never used it before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Urameshi-sama View Post
    One thing that's been pretty clearly expressed about everyone in the Jyukenbu club is that they all work their hardest because they have their own goals they want to fulfill. The red feather members are doing this by exposing and using their birthrights. The white feathers(Masataka) and the normal people (Bob) are doing this through pure strenuous training. That doesn't make them any weaker, just less flashy. For all the birthright and demon blood they lack, they have to make up with extra pure hard work. Thats why Bunshichi, Masataka, Mitsuomi, and Bob are so impressive. They manage to maintain such a level of equivalence/superiority among people who have such a huge blood advantage just through much more training and discipline.
    Never said they don't work hard, only said it hasn't been shown that Masataka is working as hard or harder. We've seen Mitsoumi and Bunshinchi fair against demon blooded people, but not Bob or Masataka. We've obviously seen Mitsoumi train his ass off, and we know what Bunshinchi has been through, but what about Bob and Masataka, not so miuch...

    Look, all I'm sayin is from what we've seen I don't see it, unless we get another reference to Masataka's past, showing how great you guys say he is I don't see it.
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  8. #38
    Canute87 is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    masataka is the best thing to happen to the jyuukenbu since bunshichi.

  9. #39
    amxed is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    @vphamv
    -_-;;; I'm not amed...

    Quote Originally Posted by vphamv View Post
    Not ignoring, I just don't see how one person continuously perfecting the same thing is as difficult as trying to learn completely new things while perfecting it at the same time.
    ...because souichirou was a total newbie when it came to fighting with high level martial artists? Nagi did have to learn new things in order to become stronger...but did you see him learning new things after he learned how to control his demon exorcist power?

    Quote Originally Posted by vphamv View Post
    That's the thing though, it's just purely speculation and no proof, no real examples of him actually fighting anyone with demon blood.
    yeah, but it's pretty strong speculation, isn't it? Even though I doubt that Masataka fought anyone with demon blood, he clearly is strong enough to take them on.

    Quote Originally Posted by vphamv View Post
    Fuu did not have any powers, and there have been plenty of people who have protected others. Plus it wasn't even that hard a battle. Also, do you think Masataka can beat Mitsoumi as he is? I'd say no, he got his ass handed to him at the bowling ally, and if he can't beat Mitsoumi how would he beat Shin. Before Shin died he kicked EVERYONE'S ass, then killed himself.
    So when you say Fuu did not have any powers, does that also mean that Maya doesn't have any powers? Because Fuu generates electricity by touching the ground, which Nagi also showed during the fight with Ishiyumi(or was it somebody else...?), and Maya can make wood as sharp as a blade using her ki. Therefore, Fuu clearly has "power." And no, Masataka can't beat Mitsuomi as he is because Mitsuomi is a superman, but I guess if the three minutes are over, yes, Masataka can beat Mitsuomi, only if he(Masataka) can last that long. And I never said that Masataka can beat Shin. Well, maybe he can, but I said "not incredibly one-sided."


    Quote Originally Posted by vphamv View Post
    Err...I wasn't talking about what we think is a true warrior, I was talking about what Masataka's dad was considering a the "True Warrior". But yeah, I said I don't think he's going to be the True Warrior, not that it's impossible for him to be it but that I dont see it happening.
    my question for you is, why do you not see it happening? Of course, it can just happen to a random guy in Japan, but the closest one I see is Masataka because:
    1. he's mitsuomi's brother and we all know that mitsuomi was supposed to be the true warrior
    2. He's got a strong sense of justice and the right thing to do (despite his over-pervertedness, did he actually take all the chances he had to see aya naked?)
    3. Masataka never failed to protect anyone near him/within his sight...

    Quote Originally Posted by vphamv View Post
    That's what I've been saying, there hasn't been a battle for him were he actually gets any cuts or bruises. No challenge at all, he just overwhelms all the non demoned powered people and that's it. No other examples have been shown so far.
    Then I hope OG shows some fights with Masataka actually has a challenge.

    Quote Originally Posted by vphamv View Post
    Okay, once again it's just speculation. From what we've seen where has it been shown Masataka vigorously training has hard as Bob and Nagi? Ever since those two joined the club they've been training nonstop. Especially Bob, he even works out during class.
    maybe he vigorously trained hard as Bob and Nagi before they came to Masataka's school? After all, for non-demon people, they must train hard(same case with Mitsuomi) in order to match up to demon people. Masataka has also shown some training scenes where he jogs or lifting weights(weights as in lots of water bottles, etc.)

    Quote Originally Posted by vphamv View Post
    Plus you're acting like when Nagi got those powers, it was such a breeze and effortless to do so. Yeah...defeating opponents when the odds are against you and almost getting killed all the time is so easy.~
    I'm just gonna say that Nagi had been unfortunate to meet all those strong people and fight them despite his premature state.

    Quote Originally Posted by vphamv View Post
    Never said they don't work hard, only said it hasn't been shown that Masataka is working as hard or harder. We've seen Mitsoumi and Bunshinchi fair against demon blooded people, but not Bob or Masataka. We've obviously seen Mitsoumi train his ass off, and we know what Bunshinchi has been through, but what about Bob and Masataka, not so miuch...
    Look, all I'm sayin is from what we've seen I don't see it, unless we get another reference to Masataka's past, showing how great you guys say he is I don't see it.
    You don't need to see the past in order to speculate....what I mean is, if you didn't see all those scenes with Mitsuomi training like hell then does that mean you will label him as "not strong"? NO! Because everyone says in the manga that HE IS THE SUPERMAN. with the three minute limit being the kryptonite. Same thing with Masataka. Everyone says he's strong. So why not? Maybe, just maybe, he's strong. Perhaps I'm just being overly emotional about this because Masataka is my favorite character, but let's face it....that some of the things I stated were true.

    ...But no hard feelings, please. Just stated what I thought.

  10. #40
    mass_riot is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    Masataka has grown on me, I used to not like him so much but now he's one of my favorite characters. I like him because he's an average guy with average guy problems. I hope he ends the series with a great fight.

 

 
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