Maya is probably the only other character who can rival Mitsuomi's god-like strength. Mitsuomi by accident thanks to Shin gained a heart and metabolic condition which increases his power to superhuman levels (even beyond all other superhuman levels >_>) for 3 minutes at the cost of his lifespan and health. Basically Mitsoumi is trading some 70 years of his lifespan to gain god-like power. Maya however became stronger through a different method. While some characters can manipulate their bodies forms her mastery of her spirit is even greater. She shrinks her body into chibi form to compress her ki and prevent it from being lost.
Basically over time people will natural bleed off ki like waste heat however Maya stops that from happening and thus built up 2 years worth of it so while she has it her strength can be massively increased. However she also states that she doesn't have absolute control of it. She states while in the moutains with Makiko and Tsumuji that she could have had Dragon Palm treatment to fix her arm or used her ki to speed up her healing but chose not to at the risk losing all that ki by accident.
In her fight with Kagiroi the mohawk man she had no choice but to use it and thus activated Reiki's true form which is a silver blade with fire-like etchings along it. It's active state is also demonstrated by wrapping its handle bindings to Maya increasing her power allowing her to slice iron body man in half however when all her ki is drained the wrappings return to handle which is when she seems to die. She gets up later though and gives Madako Reiki so she can go and help Ishyumi and the kicking girl with the trippy name before collapsing again in Mitsoum's arms. However according to the past arc she didn't lose her 2 years of ki it was stolen by that Aya spirit who states that she is manifesting with Maya's ki and also using it to time travel she's currently guiding past Aya. Although it hasn't been stated (or was mistranslated) that might have been past Aya trapped in Reiki.
You're wrong about the red feathers but that's partially my fault for misleading you ghost from mistakes I made. I read the Japanese again and it doesn't say Dragon Gate but Chakra Gate, there are 7 of these and there are 12 General Gods of the Flying Phoenix not 8 who make up the leaders of the Founding Families, here's what I found out. Also there are 6 styles (not sure what that means yet), 12 Founding families and 36 branch families altogether but I'm not sure if the number of reds and whites are even though Dougen said that the reds disappeared over time.
Ishyumi is part of the white feather archer family however he has a Chakra Gate not a Dragon Gate; the Orange Belt (Ring) Water Dragon Chakra Gate, Maya has the Wood Element Gate and Ryuzaaki has the Fire Gate. Everyone has Chakra Gates altogether 7 however there exists two other Gates the Heaven Gate and the Earth Gate which is very interesting enough referred to by Buddha who managed to successfully fully control and open his chakra gates to receive enlightment in the statement Tenjou Tenge which means "I am blessed by both Heaven and Earth" however since this is Japanese of something originally Chinese the philosophies diverged to which OhGreat! has taken artistic license.
You see while the kanji equates to Earth in English from Japanese the meaning is closer to Underworld or Hell. Nagi has the Hell/Earth Dragon but this isn't a Nagi family trait. The Nagi family trait is the Dragon Fist, the power to steal other dragons. Shin also had the Black Hell/Earth Dragon which is why he was so powerful but used Reiki to diminish its power although it mostly drove him insane the same way it almost drove Souchirou insane when he fought Spiderman. Makiko doesn't one if you notice.
Now this is what I learnt about powers in the TenTen universe. There is ki inside of people which with practice and the spiritual power can be turned into ki powers however there is also ki in the environment. In the past Osaka castle was guarded by a shield of ki energy from 5 shrines that emanated it greatly in the forms of the 5 elements. Maya could turn the ki in her tie into solid energy to form a blade. Red and White Feathers can both fine tune ki though Red Feathers have the advantage that like mages they spend more time trying to harness external ki rather than internal ki, neither is anymore advantegous over the other in the long run they're just different powers as OhGreat! demonstrates. In the end it's actually a philosophical diverges not a physical one though physiology still plays a part regardless.
One example is Fu'Chien, he could derive electrical energy ki from the ground its natural source to create his lightning attacks but when his feet were no connected with the ground he can no power.
However (this is partly implied) at some point in history the Red Feathers cursed themselves or were cursed with demons which apparently fell to the Nagi family who took the role as Demon Exorcists to try and resolve it. You see external Ki in an area can be greater than or less than internal ki where in lies its weakness. Some individuals however are born cursed or blessed in that they are unusually spiritually linked to some unusual and mostly malevolent force that gives them infinite ki. Dougen and Mitsoumi both say that they don't know if these things are Gods, Dragons or Demons. We often see a demon or dragon floating around Souchirou, that's his spiritual benefactor. It can be assumed that the spirit woman who's guiding Aya is her benefactor and the one who makes paranormal activity occur around Aya. Shin also had a demon floating around him.
Aya I think has the Flying Dragon, or the White Heaven Dragon which will also grant her infinite ki, this might be that woman spirit following her. This is actually a completely random trait or curse that afflicts red feathers. Dougen actually realized this when his close friends the mother and father of the current Natsumes were killed by Shin. He waited to turn Mitsoumi into someone who was strong to handle it but without having to resort to becoming a demon himself to gain enough power to match these demons.
Although his methods were inhumane, led to Shin and Mana's death which is why Mitsoumi kicked him out. His plan interestingly was to collect people with power. According to him people with high power potential will create a resonance effect which activates other powers, this is also related to an area. Which is why Aya could only activate her Dragon Eye randomly and not constantly. Souchiro also had the same problem until Inue and Souhaku trained him.
The Chakra Gates are different from Dragon Gates. Everyone has 7 Chakra Gates: Spirit, Breath, Wood, Metal, Fire, Water and Air which regulate ki in the body. They're like our spiritual organs. However each person can manipulate a direct chakra depending on personal preferance. That's why Maya can turn paper into a blade, Ryuzaaki can create sparks, Fu'Chien makes lightning bolts and why Ishyumi part of the White Feather Archer family alone can create water bullets.
Dragon Gates are the products of mutations and paranormal activity. There are lots of them. For instance the Kabane family are able to materialise weapons (or at least past Kabane) could while Spiderman Tsumuji kid could sharpen his fingers into blades. He said he got it from the Shoukayou family a branch of the Kabane family and even called it a pathetic dragon unlike Nagi's Dragon Fist because it was a branch family dragon gate not a founding family dragon gate.
As Dougen said a lot of red feather blood has become diluted and lost power. For instance the Dragon Eye once had the power to create illusions, mind control people and create dopplegangers with insects. However over time that power was lost and ended up with the Enmi family a branch of the Natsume family. That little kid Aya takes in and those Shinto Priestess are distant relatives of the Natsumes. That's why there moth illusion power is so similar to past Aya's cockroach illusion power.
In the past there were two wings to the Flying Phoenix, the White Feather Wing and the Red Feather Wing. These were lead by the Takayanagi family of the White and the Nagi family of the Red and they served the Royal Family. The White consisted of at the time soldiers and warriors, the military, fore-instance the Kabanes were samurai, Ishyumis were archers, Kagirois the mobile artillery division and Tsumujis the forward lance groups. They had paranormal abilities but things that mostly adhered to the idea of the Spirit of the Warrior and were actually unique to individuals not a general practice. However over time as Spiderman Tsumuji showed they've interbred with Red Feathers. Also like with the rest of the normal society Takayanagi and White Feathers gained more prominence due to the ease and popularity of their arts which is reflected by the current state of the real world.
The Red Feathers were the religious and spiritual branch of the Flying Phoenix. Originally they were not fighters as past Aya showed but specialized in using their ki but mostly external ki to create magical effects. They were basically sorcerers but as Dougen said they eroded away because people began liking guns to magic and computers to oracles and all the stuff the White Feathers represented, think Arcanum here. Souhaku, Makiko, Inue and probably soon Aya are examples of true Red Feathers as they are sorcerers. Inue the dragon voice mind controlling bitch is actually a sorcerer who put a seal on her tongue so she could control people with her voice. It isn't a dragon gate.
It can be assumed that like how in legend the Japanese Royal family descends from the Sun Goddess Amaterasu the 12 Founding Families are somehow connected with Susanoo the God of Storms as per the conversation Kagiroi has with Makiko. In the Shinto Susanoo seriously messed with Amaterasu and afterwards was made to make-up. In exchange Susanoo gave Amaterasu's family the legendary sword Kusanagi. Given that OhGreat! seems to be taking Shinto myth and formatting it into a more real life setting my guess is that the Flying Phoenix families are descendants of Susanoo hence their power. Even past Aya seem to say that.
Souhaku seems to want to try and resurrect that God Susanoo through his sorcery. Under the current plot circumstances I think Dougen might have actually been trying to turn Mitsoumi in a similar god. It might just a phonetic similarility but Mitsoumi might actually be meant to be Tsukiyomi the God of the Moon and brother to Susanoo or maybe that might be Masataka's role. I'm not really sure about Tsukiyomi that much so I'll need to go back and study old notes.
What i first want to say is Damnnnnnnnn! that's a lot of Info and through reading it i came up with my ideas and add a little more it.
Originally Posted by Deus-Helios
First off, i don't think Maya is the only character who can rival Mitsumi, as a matter fact i dont even think she can rival him, beacause not only one mitsumi has more ki than her and two he knows way more techniques than Maya. Mitsumi spends most of his time training, he knows and does every little thing to increases his strength even if it's by a hair's length. You saw how avoided being control by that lady who can control people.
Like i said, she didn't activate the Reiki, Aya did. Once the reiki was activated she only provided her Ki that she had been storing to confront Mitsumi. This is why the Reiki can't be use by people with no power because it eats up a lot of Ki and regular people with no power don't have the amount of Ki needed to use the reiki. And red feathers don't have that problem. It did eat her Ki though to point that she is on the brink death now, I think the spirit that is talking to Aya right now is the Reiki's spirit because she said:"the ki that your sister has been storing up until now is all within me" .
About the red feathers, yeah about the 8 i made a mistake about that, There are 6 founding red feather families and 6 founding white feather families. All the other 36 familes are only branch families. About the red feathers, some families went poor and dropped in status, and disappeared, not dead but they stopped showing themselves in public anymore. Like makiko and Souichirou, you see in the state they were living, as the head of the red feathers, they should have been on the same level as the Takayanagis, status-wise.
Besides Spirit, Breath, Wood, Metal, Fire, Water and Air used to create the world, it is said that the 8th element was a dragon. And that 8th element is what the red feathers has and the whites lack.
I know Ishyumi is part of a white feather family, but he does indeed have a water dragon Gate not a chakra gate, maybe it's because of the breeding between families that u mentionned. I think this is the difference between red and white feathers, reds have dragron gate and the whites have chakra gates. the reds have a monsrous amount of ki while the whites'ki is limited. And also where the reds can learn the whites signature ablities, the whites can't learn the reds signature abilities. The reason being is that the whites abilities are purely martial arts and the reds are powers and martial arts. If two equal fighters one a white feather the other a red feather with both using martial arts, the red feather can use his powers to tip the scale in his favor. this is why the whites fear the reds.
I think the reiki is the kusanagi of the sunanoo legend. Also I think that Masataka will switch sides because no matter how you look at it, he is showing the same signs that Mitsumi showed before he held a grudge or wanted to fight Shin: he said he felt fear(in the image of a serpent) bite his heart, jealousy over Aya(for mitsumi it was Maya). Not to mention he didn't want Souichirou to come back when he was "kidnapped" by Souhakou.
Also about the Earth/heaven dragon thing, Souichirou still can be either one of him and that depends on which he choose. remember when ishyumi and that dragon claw where asking him for who's sake is he fighting?he never answered. Also i don't think he'll take on the soldier role anymore since he is suppose to be a Leader and even that girl asked him that yeah he is claiming that he is a hoodlum and all But is he really ok with just that. So i think he'll take on the role of Leader. Also he swore he'll kill Mitsumi and I wonder how masataka will react one Nagi actually beats his brother.
If you are trying to protect someone and you only want to be strong for that person and that is really how you feel without an ounce of hesitation, you'll become a dragon of heaven but if you just want to be strong without having to protect anybody, just to be strong for selfish reasons then you'll become the black dragon of earth.
I'll post it up again, this is the relation between Susanoo and the twelve families: **the history of 12 families ressemble closely the legend of Yamato Orochi and Susanoo, Orochi has 8 heads.
This his how the red feathers came to be: There 8 rivers that ran through the country, one day they found them all stained entirely Blood red. When they investigated it, they found that near the source of the river some people were trying to extract Iron from a the Mountain, when Iron touches Oxigen or water, it turns Blood Red. The Faith of the nation at the time was the MOuntain is our god and the River is our God. By defiling both,It was like dissing the people of the region. The metal working families wasn't from the region, they came from the Continent. To the locals, the 8 heads of the leaders of the Metal working families where considered as 8 evil dragons . The ShoGun of the region was called Susa or Susa-man, he was an extremely powerful man, He went and got the 8 heads of the leaders of the metal families Drunk and when they got drunk, he severed their heads. Before long, the each of the heads'daughter got pregnant and they were all susa's kid. Feeling shamed, The women try to drink Iron sand but no matter how much sand they drank, they never died, in the end they gave birth to the child and then died. That's how everything begin. that's the history of the red and white feathers.
Last edited by ghost305; 06-14-2006 at 03:17 PM.
That was Kagiroi take on the origins of his clan and there seems to be a mistranslation there, either it means one women got pregnant or 8 women got pregnant but considering what he says later it's more like only one woman got pregnant. Though it isn't stated if that's related to other clans. Also Kusanagi's original name meant Cloud Brand, come to think of it the etchings on the side of Reiki do resemble the old Japanese style of drawing rolling clouds during a storm.
Reiki is a difficult topic to discuss since there isn't enough for it. It is a magic sword so a red feather who channels external ki to power it is better at handling it, also because of their sorcerous nature they "know" how to activate it. The difference between a red and a white using reiki is only that a red is given a manual and a white isn't and a red notices the power cable attach to the end and knows where to plug it in while a white just grabs it and lets the cord dangle. Reds just have an awareness of it that can't be explained. Maya knew about it somewhat just enough that she gave her ki to it to activate its true form power, she does activate it, although not its other mythical powers like resurrection and weather control only another red feather sorcerer has the skills to do that since it's magic. You're thinking that all of Reiki's abilities are tied purely to Red Feathers.
On the matter of comparing Yamato Orochi with Susanoo you are very good with that however under the circumstances presented I think that Susa used that steel at that time to make Reiki. In the legend Susa agreed to kill the 8 headed Orochi in exchange for the hand in marriage of one of the girls Orochi was eating. OhGreat! changes it to 8 rivers being used by 8 Directors of the metal industry whose heads are (no pun intended) decapatitated after being enticed to drink sake, just like the legend and then Susa rapes one of the heads' girls thus making the first Kagiroi. Kusanagi came to be when Susa took it out from one of Orochi's tails so in this case Susa must have forged Reiki around that time with the help of the metal workers then infused with Buddhist rituals by the sorcerers.
A chakra gate exists in everyone the translation confused dragon gates with chakra gates because of how Japanese and Chinese view Dragons as the equivalents of Gods while Indians simply view them as immaterial concepts (one of the reasons why they're martial arts and warfare sucked, not enough people could get it). Each character with enough ki can learn to channel one type. That's why both Fu'Chien and Nagi could activate the Red Earth Electric Dragon, Maya could activate the Wood Dragon, Ishyumi his Water Dragon which he fine tuned and kicking girl uses the Green Belt Wind Dragon to enhance her leg strength but couldn't activate it after.
I'm not sure if Nagi can also become the Flying Dragon, if OhGreat! follows the myth the maybe but only if he finds his love. Keep in mind that OhGreat! is blending Buddhism with Shintoism and making comparisons with Izanagi and Izanami so in it's more likely that he'll remain the Black Dragon and some other female character will become the Flying Dragon.
The 8th Element is the source of ki which is believed to be a dragon that enters from the 1st Gate at the head and leaves through one of the other 6 gates hence why they're called dragon gates but are actually correctly called Chakra Gates, Japanese take on this otherwise India philosophy is quite different when translated into English because Indias don't put a creature or person to their concepts while Japanese put a Dragon or warrior or sword in as many different philosophies as possible. I know because I study these things. Nagi's Black Dragon is one of these God Dragons, its the 8th Element and Shin had it as well.
I seem to have made another mistake about Takayanagi. They're not part of the 12, rather the 12 come from them it would seem. According to Takayanagi history in a magazine containing an article from OhGreat! Takayanagi used to have both red and white wings meaning that they had both the powers of reds and whites in their veins and were considered to be Gods and Heroes hence why they are so revered. However as Dougen stated time has eroded that power and now Takayanagi is more White Feather than Red Feather since time took favor over technology the department of the red feathers rather than magic which is why they got poor and almost disappeared.
In her current state with that trump card of ki Maya probably won't beat Mitsoumi but with it she might. Reiki already stole it so we have no idea how much was in there but given that the sword spirit is using it for time travel and pulling Aya's spirit along the Ether it can be assumed that there's a lot in there.
At any rate do you think Nagi is the only one to beat Mitsoumi and are you assuming Masataka will beat him or just try and get ass-raped?
About the history thing, it's not only Kagiroi's family but all the other families have the same similar history. So it's not only him. It seems to me that the Reiki has a mind of its own since they showed its spirit and all. It activated itself by sacrifying Maya.
I think you are confusing the abilities the regular people could use through Ki and the Ability the red feathers use.White feathers don't have dragons and Maya definitely doesn't have one, if she did why would she go through the trouble of saving up Ki. People with dragons like the red feathers don't need that. Every person's Ki has an ability depending on what their Ki is. But don't confuse that with dragons.
Regular people doesn't have Chakura Gates. Yes they have Ki but they have no gates. But red feathers do and through that gate, they channel an incredibily large amount of Ki. The fact that the white feathers or people with no powers don't have gate is the reason why their Ki is so limited.
Also like you said, the Tayanagis are not Part of the 12 families. they are the head of the phoenix and the 12 families are its feathers. the origin of the 12 families is Susanoo which is why when Souhakou merge all the blood into one again, souichiro will become Susanoo. Maybe the Takayanagi is related to susa or maybe they were the heads of the 8 metal working families, i don't know but What im sure of is the origin of the 12 families is Susanoo and when the ceremony is done, Souichirou will become Susano.
Im not saying Masataka will beat Souichirou. Im saying that there is a possibility that he'll switch sides because things that made Mitsumi changed, happened to him also. Also if Nagi beats Mitsoumi, Masataka will definitely come knocking. Though i don't think he will beat Nagi.
Hello Ghost. I do believe you owe me something.
masataka can still beat nagi.......
maybe nagi can find out how to use shin's move....the one that made mitsuomi the way he is.......and use it on mitsuomi...that could ensure victory
The history thing is plausible but if there were 8 Metal Industry directors why 12 families unless Susa created the White Feather branch?
Ok forget it there's no point trying to convince you about the mistranslations and incorrect ported philosophies you've arrived at. I am a martial artist and study Eastern mystics as well as Indian philosophy which is where this comes from. So forget it I've never been able to teach anyone anything anyway.
I understand about your knowledge on martial arts and all but In the manga, it is said that only people with red feather powers have dragons. How could Maya have a Wood dragon when she ain't got no red feather powers. yes her Ki is wood but she doesn't have a dragon. If you can manipulate your ki than you can use an ability that goes with you Ki's characterics but that doesn't mean you have a dragon. Maya, Ryuuzaki don't have no dragons. Although Ishyumi is a white feather, he did say he had a water dragon so it might be because of the interbred thing.
Oh Ghost, stop being an ass and pay me what you owe. ^____________^
06-15-2006, 08:25 PM
Elaborate!!! dont know what you are talking about
Originally Posted by AKofC