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  1. #1
    shautieh's Avatar
    shautieh is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Default Oh yes, fuck me, deeper ~

    well, this could have gone in Chit Chat, but as it is primarily destined to techies (and it seems volvo doesn't go much out of here), i think it's better here
    (tell me if you don't want it volvo :P)


    so, right to the subject : http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt
    i love what vista along with HDCP and other shits are meant to buttfuck us >.>

    what do you think of it ?? on a general viewpoint as well as a more technical one
    for me it is utter nonsense and i'm praying for the fall of all these fools :d


    an extract (@jyuu xD) :
    The high-end graphics and audio market are dominated entirely by gamers, who
    will do anything to gain the tiniest bit of extra performance, like buying
    Bigfoot Networks' $250 "Killer NIC" ethernet card in the hope that it'll help
    reduce their network latency by a few milliseconds. These are people buying
    $500-$1000 graphics and sound cards for which one single sale brings the
    device vendors more than the few cents they get from the video/audio portion
    of an entire roomful of integrated-graphics-and-sound PCs. I wonder how this
    market segment will react to knowing that their top-of-the-line hardware is
    being hamstrung by all of the content-protection "features" that Vista hogties
    it with?
    Do you still think vista is great ?

  2. #2
    Jyuu's Avatar
    Jyuu is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    Vista = DX10 = Automatic win.

    I hardly pirate stuff anyways and moreover my 8800GTX is HDCP enabled and so are my monitors (20.1", 22", 24" and 30" all HDCP ready).

    Moreover I already got my Windows Vista Ultimate license. =D

  3. #3
    xxsaznpride is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Default

    Wait... what the hell does that article mean? Is it saying that you can't use stuff you download with torrents or anything of the sort? If that's the case, the fuck Vista up the ass.

    @Jyuu: You have four monitors... for four computers??? You're richer than I thought.
    Quote Originally Posted by AvatarST
    And your name's annoying to type; from now on you're sazny.
    Farleen // Number 42

  4. #4
    SAND_MAN is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Dumb quetion for all you computer techies out there.

    What exactly does vista do? I have an inspiron9400 LapTop and it's Vista Capable.


    "Let my ears hear not but the most sinful of lyrics"

  5. #5
    shautieh's Avatar
    shautieh is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    @jyuu : well, if the problem was only with premium content ^^ ... but it's a general loss of power all vista users will experience (WTF at encoding everything like that >.> it won't stop the pirates, and only irritate the customers)
    and that means higher costs for everybody, especially for video cards..

    Quote Originally Posted by xxsaznpride View Post
    Wait... what the hell does that article mean? Is it saying that you can't use stuff you download with torrents or anything of the sort? If that's the case, the fuck Vista up the ass.

    @Jyuu: You have four monitors... for four computers??? You're richer than I thought.
    (don't underestimate jyuu's wealth XD)
    but it does mean that almost every video cards that said they were HDCP ready are NOT, and you are ready to buy another card if you want it enabled for premium content...

    about torrents, it won't change a thing
    and that's why it's so lame, as respectful customers get butt fucked while pirates laugh in the background....
    a comment on the article summed it up very well :
    "The HDCP scheme will serve to make the illegal product the most full featured
    and least restrictive, and thus the most attractive to the consumer. Add in
    the expense of buying new equipment to vew the legal content (when existing
    equipment is perfectly capable) and the performance drain imposed by in-line
    encryption/decryption and they've put out the biggest incentive to piracy
    yet" - "Greg".
    fact is :
    - it won't prevent pirates from doing what they want
    - it will lead to the same thing as audio cds : customers will have the choice between DLing a perfect copy for free, OR buy the actual thing (which is good) and have a crappy, over protected, sometimes unusable media
    - there is also the content protection system thingy, that could disable you to read premium content EVEN THOUGH YOU BOUGHT IT
    - etc. (read the whole article for indepth infos)

    another extract, about premium content :
    Note F: As an example of an experience that's likely to become commonplace
    once more "premium content" is rolled out, Roger Strong reports from Canada
    that "I've just had my first experience with HD content being blocked. I
    purchased an HP Media Center PC with a built-in HD DVD player, together with a
    24" 'high definition' 1920 x 1200 HP flat panel display (HP LP2465). They
    even included an HD movie, 'The Bourne Supremacy'. Sure enough, the movie
    won't play because while the video card supports HDCP content protection, the
    monitor doesn't
    . (It plays if I connect an old 14" VGA CRT using a DVI-to-VGA
    connector)". "muslix64" tells a similar tale: "when I disable my HD monitor,
    I can watch the movie, on my old VGA screen, but, what is the point of having
    a HD monitor and not being able to watch a HD movie on it". muslix64 was so
    upset at not being able to play his legitimately-purchased movies on his
    legitimately-purchased monitor attached to his legitimately-purchased player
    that he broke the AACS protection just to be able to see his own movies, see
    Note C above.
    huhuhu, it's great for the 99% of the population that can't spend thousands on PCs and screens, even though they would LIKE to buy premium content ^^

  6. #6
    Jyuu's Avatar
    Jyuu is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by shautieh View Post
    @jyuu : well, if the problem was only with premium content ^^ ... but it's a general loss of power all vista users will experience (WTF at encoding everything like that >.> it won't stop the pirates, and only irritate the customers)
    and that means higher costs for everybody, especially for video cards..

    but it does mean that almost every video cards that said they were HDCP ready are NOT, and you are ready to buy another card if you want it enabled for premium content...
    Well an HDCP video card starts from $122.99. That's really cheap.
    An decent 20.1" LCD with HDCP starts cheaply too, check out the Sceptre Naga 20.1" LCD 1680x1050.


    And it was ATI who said that all their X1000 video cards were HDCP-ready when they launched the X1800XT but people caught that lie and they quickly edited their websites. Heck, they were going to be sued because of that. But many video cards ARE HDCP-enabled these days.

  7. #7
    shautieh's Avatar
    shautieh is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    it's not really cheap for everyone ^^
    and a computer screen is meant (for most people) to live for years (5+), so what should someone do if he bought a screen 1 year ago, or buy one nowadays, but without HDCP support as it is not well none yet ?
    The problem is simple : the studios restrict their market share way too much, and they will blame pirates when they will be deceived by their sales.... :P

    about HDCP support : http://www.firingsquad.com/hardware/...port/page2.asp
    it was writen on february 12, so maybe things have changed, but i quote :
    Although ATI has had “HDCP support” in their GPUs since the Radeon 8500, and NVIDIA has had “HDCP support” in their GPUs since the GeForce FX5700, it turns out that things are more complicated
    [...]
    After some investigation, Brandon and I determined that there is no shipping retail add-in board with HDCP decoding keys. Simply put, none of the AGP or PCI-E graphics cards that you can buy today support HDCP.
    [...]
    None of the GeForce 6 or 7 video cards available on the market, including the most recently released GeForce 7800GS, have HDCP support. So if you just spent $1500 on a pair of 7800GTX 512MB GPUs expecting to be able to play 1920x1080 HD-DVD or Blu-Ray movies in the future, you’ve just wasted your money.
    but even without these problems, it is the trend that consider the customers as possible pirates that irritates me, because it can only push people toward pirating....
    ... and come on, when i use my PC i don't want it to lose time encoding and decoding things i legally bought, while there are pirating copies that run better, on lower spec PCs >.> (it's like in the game industry, where there is so much protection that your game turns smoother if he is cracked, that's just plain stupid from the game industry part >.<)

  8. #8
    qualia is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    That's true, it'd be funny getting another new monitor just so that you can actually watch these new protected HD formats.

    What really bothers me is that since I use a laptop, does that mean I have to get a new laptop just for the sake of that one HDCP chip?? That would be ridiculous, unless they somehow provide a way to actually get that HDCP external. I don't have a desktop, and this laptop is pretty new (less than 2 months old). It doesn't have a BluRay/HD-DVD drive, but say if I just got a new cd, like the example in the article, wouldn't it be funny if I can't play it back because of some protection mechanism? And that also means if I bought an external BluRay / HD-DVD drive, I can't use it to watch movies.

    Hopefully they will find something to get around this problem for us laptop users.

    Something that might be interesting.
    That Muslix64 mentioned in the article supposedly really have broken the code. Here's an article that outlines it, published in Extremetech.com:
    link to article, and I quote,
    It was supposed to be unbreakable; a next-gen DRM solution. Yet a hacker named Muslix64 is now claiming he has cracked the Advanced Access Content System (AACS), the standard that is currently used by companies like Disney, Warner Brothers, IBM, Toshiba, Microsoft, and Sony to protect their high-definition HD-DVD and Blu-ray discs.
    ADVERTISEMENT

    On Wednesday, Muslix64 posted BackupHDDVD, a tool for decrypting AACS protected movies, on a Doom 9 forum thread along with the volume and title keys needed to decrypt HD-DVD movies such as Full Metal Jacket and Van Helsing.

    Muslix64's alleged exploit comes only a few months after hackers discovered that a copy of any still frame from within a film could be produced using the Print Screen function of Windows OS.

    At the time, it was theorized that one could make a perfect copy of an entire film using this approach—in much the same way DVD films were copied before the advent of DeCSS, a computer program for decrypting content on a DVD disc that used the older Content-Scrambling System (CSS) standard. This method produces output data in the form of decompressed video as opposed to compressed video from the disc.


    Content that is AACS-protected is encrypted using one or more title keys, according to the AACA home page. These keys are usually derived from a combination of a media key and other elements such as the physical serial number embedded on a DVD and a cryptographic hash of the title usage rules.

    The main difference between AACS and CSS is in the ways that title-specific decryption keys are distributed. Under CSS, all players of a given model are assigned the same shared decryption key. That content is then encrypted under the title-specific key, which is itself encrypted under each model's key.

    Earlier this year, IEEE Spectrum magazine voted AACS as one of the technologies most likely to fail precisely because of its similarities to past encryption schemes.
    In the article, there is a link to Muslix64's original posts in the Doom9 forum.
    Last edited by qualia; 12-31-2006 at 06:14 PM.

  9. #9
    shautieh's Avatar
    shautieh is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    yep, you would need an external HD-DVD disk that works with HDCP, but i doubt you will be able to use your laptop screen so you would have to buy a new screen altogether...

    There is also some thing called DVImage (and there must be others), that renders a protection free signal from a protected source, but these things might be banned very quickly (and they are not cheap to begin with)

  10. #10
    flash is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    I guess people will just either get the standard/home or get the Ultimate,
    It has been done, I mean If you take a look at the prices of the Window OS http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=124

    Win XP PRO is about the same with Vista Ultimate
    and Win XP home the same with Vista Home basic.

    So my point is that people who use XP PRO will get ultimate and people who use XP Home will get Vista Basic/home. Then no one will get premium if they know this shit will happen to them.

 

 
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