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Thread: Suzuka - 121

  1. #41
    Weimario-kun is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Well, it depends on how well time jumping works in the story. The disadvantage of it is that we miss potential character developement time. Some people would liked to have witnessed some of the many changes introduced that one year of time jump like Yamato's interhigh achievements as well as character and relationship developments . Instead the mangaka just brushed off those issues as though seemingly inconsequential and leaped straight to just before the big reunion. We remain clueless as to whether Yamato has become a more reliable person or if he still retains the faults that contributed to the breakup. Bring on the flash backs? Lets hope not. What a waste of a year, Yamato has not even made progress with his relationship with Honoka, Miki or any other female character which makes it so much easier for him to pine over Suzuka again. *chokes.
    He and suzuka could have at least gone their own ways dating someone else so that their eventual coupling will at least have a bit of drama to it (well, depending on whether or not the next chapters introduces a new boyfriend in Suzuka's life, I'll hold my reservations on this matter). Does anyone else think that the mangaka is holding out for an easy ending for this destined couple?

  2. #42
    d.A. is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Quote Originally Posted by spotlesseden
    well, you may not like it, but that's why they do it.
    death note,Dargon ball, DBZ, Naruto, even ichigo 100% did time jump
    So they used time jumps too. What's your point?

    Death Note, Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Ichigo 100% all had time jumps when the meat of the story passed. Yes, after the deaths, relationships, and character development. Hardly anyone want's to see Light rule with an unchallenged iron fist nor do they want to see Manaka working his ass off for years. Hell, I would like to see twenty episodes of DBZ without any fighting. No, on second though no, no I don't. Naruto's time jump is brief and doesn't take much if anything at all from the story, it was in a time of reconstruction anyway. Time Jumps work for those instances. Suzuka is a different story - both literally and figuratively. The time that skimmed by during the time jump was the oppurtune moment to show Yamato improve character-wise and for him to explore the many possible relationships that lie around his character.

    I again restate my point: Sudden character growth through a series of ten-odd pages is hardly the best way.

    That is what Suzuka utilized. I don't like it for a reason. It destroyed a significant amount of potential Suzuka had.

    Spotlesseden, You say "that's why they do it". Care to elaborate on "that's" because I fail to see why it was used in this specific context other than the assumption that the mangaka just got bored and moved the story along while preventing any development between Yamato and any of the secondary females.

    @ Weimario-kun: Great analysis. Obviously Seo is aiming for the easy ending. There is no other way to interpret the usage of a time jump at that point of the story.
    Last edited by d.A.; 09-21-2006 at 09:01 PM.

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  3. #43
    spotlesseden is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    i guess you don't my point. my point is almsot all long manga use time jump at one point or another. it has little to do with take the easy way out.
    that's thier sytle (manga sytle)

    naruto time jump don't take much from the strong. then i can say the same thing for Suzuka.

    The time that skimmed by during the time jump was the oppurtune moment to show Yamato improve character-wise and for him to explore the many possible relationships that lie around his character.
    well i can say the same thing for all the manga that use time jump. like naruto. because all the characters in naruto changed so much other than naruto himself. lol

  4. #44
    be0wulf is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Meh. I see Suzuka ending really soon.

    So Suzuka sees Yamato with Honoka, she freaks out, puts everyone on a plane with snakes and they die.


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  5. #45
    d.A. is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Quote Originally Posted by spotlesseden
    i guess you don't [see] my point.
    If I saw your point then I wouldn't be asking.

    Quote Originally Posted by spotlesseden
    my point is almsot all long manga use time jump at one point or another.
    No. True, some of them do. Most of them? Hardly. Leading examples are Ranma 1/2 & Hajime no Ippo, some of the longest manga ever, yet they do not use a time jump. More Examples? Kochikame and Kochira Katsushika-ku Kameari Koenmae Hashutsujo are both over the 100 graphic novel count and have yet to use a time jump. Even less common is the use of a time jump right smack dab in the middle of an arc that has so many questions. The only other one I can think of that uses that is Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien and it worked for that story because the plot was centered on a time jump. Suzuka at this point is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by spotlesseden
    it has little to do with take the easy way out.
    that's thier sytle (manga sytle)
    I guess killing the potential of your manga is a style nowadays then. Time jumps are good literary vehicles when used at the right time, yes. This point of Suzuka is not one of them.

    This is what the chapter sequence looks like from afar:

    Chapter 120 - Yamato becomes captain
    Chapter 121 - Yamato retires from being captain

    That alone is bad enough. It's even worse when you add in the lack of development of the secondary characters that are very important in the development between Yamato and Suzuka. At this point, Yasonobu & Miki have yet to show any significant values or events about them that make them important to the story. Honoka who just returned from a twenty-something chapter absence has yet to do anything significant to add to the story. Yui is currently missing in action and her character has hardly any development or temporary closure. There is just way too much questions in the audience's mind for the manga to justify using a time jump at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by spotlesseden
    naruto time jump don't take much from the strong. then i can say the same thing for Suzuka.
    Naruto's time jump took place after a huge decisive battle. What's there to show after that battle? By god your right, the 5 minute rebuilding scenes with peaceful music in the background aren't enough for the general masses. They could have showed 10 thrilling episodes of Sasuke nailing a house together and Naruto painting with even more peaceful music. I'm sure no one in their right mind would complain with that. Heck, I'm sure that would have brought back elevator music from the pits of audio hell. And once that's done they could have shown everyone training episode after episode while showing overly emotional stories of why they have to get stronger. No important battles, just training, and more training, and more training and crying and more training, and more crying, and add some pre-teen angst and then even more training. Those are in high demand alright since there are not enough in Naruto already. If I wanted to see that I would go train my characters on some RPG to max level. I'm even less likely to fall asleep there.

    Concluding point: Naruto's time jump is well placed, Suzuka's is not.

    Quote Originally Posted by spotlesseden
    Quote Originally Posted by d.A.
    The time that skimmed by during the time jump was the opportune moment to show Yamato improve character-wise and for him to explore the many possible relationships that lie around his character.
    well i can say the same thing for all the manga that use time jump. like naruto. because all the characters in naruto changed so much other than naruto himself. lol
    Cause Naruto had - you know - that much potential to develop, and everyone is just begging to find out numerous facts about side characters. Please...

    Naruto is an action manga; character development is not valued anywhere near as much in an action manga as it is in a drama manga.

    Suzuka is a drama manga last I checked.
    Last edited by d.A.; 09-22-2006 at 12:53 PM.

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  6. #46
    spotlesseden is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    No. True, some of them do. Most of them?
    yes for long manga, most of them. i bet i can name more titles that have time jump than you can without time jump. want to bet?


    Naruto's time jump took place after a huge decisive battle.
    Wrong. there are still 6-8 Charters of manga after Naruto vs Sasuke.
    do you even read naruto. Sasuke, sakura are like a different person. nobody knows what happended sasuke. probably don't know how powerful he is right now.



    .

    Concluding point: Naruto's time jump is well placed, Suzuka's is not.
    no, the conclusion is in your opinion that time jump in Suzuka is bad. now, in everybody's opinion. it's all about opinions. there is not fact to prove it either way. if you don't like my opinion that's too bad.
    Last edited by spotlesseden; 09-22-2006 at 07:37 PM.

  7. #47
    d.A. is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    I'll take that bet with pleasure. On your terms here is a list of ones over 75 chapters that do not contain any sort of sudden time passage for an very extensive period of time (excluding epilogues and no-plot sidestories):

    [Scours external hard drive for a list]

    Hajime no Ippo, Ranma 1/2, Jojo no Kimyou na Bouken, Oishimbo, Tetsujin 28, Ah! My Goddess, 3x3 Eyes, Hikaru no Go, S.D.F. Macross, Hana Yori no Dango, Dokaben, Boku no Minto, Chobits, Full Moon Sawagashite, I"s, Rough, Kanon, Katsu!, Hanakimi, Slam Dunk, Golgo 13, Meruperi, REC, Pretty Face, Kodacha, Nine, Great Teacher Onizuka, Beck, Detective Konan, Dual!, Kochira Katsushika-ku Kameari Koenmae Hashutsujo, Miyuki, Dance Till Tommmorow, Patarrilo. (That would be 35.)

    I could add much more but it would be pointless since most of them don't have a scenario similar to Suzuka. Find me just 10 decent long drama mangas that contain a time jump right in the middle of a developing story and didn't suck, and I'll admit I'm wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by spotlesseden
    Wrong. there are still 6-8 Charters of manga after Naruto vs Sasuke.
    do you even read naruto. Sasuke, sakura are like a different person. nobody knows what happended sasuke. probably don't know how powerful he is right now.
    It's been a while since I had narutard status, so no I don't. Nor do I want to. But I do know enough about the sudden growth spurt within the series to realize that no one wants to read two and a half years worth of fillers. That 6-8 chapters you say were a temporary closure setting up for the time jump. Naruto readers should be happy they gave you that at the very least. Suzuka had nothing of the sort. It clearly foreshadowed a time jump in chapter 120, but it didn't set up a temporary conclusion before the actual jump.

    Naruto's time jump was indeed well done with much more tact than Suzuka's. However, Naruto's time jump wasn't even needed within the story, it was nothing more than a way to make the characters physically grow up and recover while gaining some new powers. It was done to create additional areas where action could take place within the story, which is hardly the character development you insinuate. Look at Full Metal Alchemist, it uses the same technique to forward the age of the characters. The time jump in FMA is well placed due to the fact it happened after a major conclusion. It was only to allow Ed to go through, like you mentioned earlier, a physical change. But, a time jump within an action manga has a different goal than a drama manga. The action variety, is used to create new possibilities for action within it's world, or to signify a new arc. And it works. Within a drama manga, I have yet to see it used for anything more than an intro to an epilogue or an epilogue-like conclusion or to generate a sudden changes within a character. Suzuka it is used for the latter reason. Time jumps can work, Kimi Ga Nozomu Eien being the best example - but at the point of the time jump, Suzuka had way too much opportunities to expand to justify using it.

    Quote Originally Posted by spotlesseden
    no, the conclusion is in your opinion that time jump in Suzuka is bad. now, in everybody's opinion. it's all about opinions. there is not fact to prove it either way. if you don't like my opinion that's too bad.
    I can say that Barney is the shit compared to Naruto. That doesn't make it true.

    Opinions need to be backed up with facts to have any significance. Which is exactly what I do. It's not that I don't like your opinion, frankly I respect it like I do every other person's here, however respect and agree are completely different things.

    I disagree with you on most "long" manga having a time jump.

    I disagree on you with Suzuka's time jump being "the best way" nor was it "well placed".

    I disagree with you on how time jumps are the best way to develop characters.

    And guess what? I added facts behind my arguements.

    It's not all about opinions. Opinions are nothing without facts to back them up with.

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