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  1. #51
    aulzon is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Trying to touch a turtle and a tiger is no different? Well, if for you so, I can't help you here...
    So you are saying Eri is a tiger? They are both girls and it is simply fact that Harima rather confide in Yakumo. That makes your statement false and double-standard. (Eri is the only one.. etc etc) Just admit it.

    You mean that Tenma gets to understand Karasuma less then before?
    No, I mean that herself is very self-conscious of what to think infront of Karasuma to the point of crying.

    If the main storyline is Tenma’s, then the main storyline is True Oudou. Neither Flag nor Onigiri interfere with that pairing, so both fail to antagonize the “main” storyline. The only one I see really doing so is Oudou.
    Remember, the main storyline is not just True Oudou but also Oudou, I've already said and agreed that Harima is the main male protagonist. Flag and Onigiri both revolve around that.

    He let his guard down because he was talking about his dream life with Tenma. And then Tae made certain moves on him. He understood what she wants (he is not an absolute idiot after all and it was sooo obvious) but he never stoped to think about Tenma at the moment. Now, what he is crying about? About impossibility of his dream come true or about Tae?

    He started to like Tenma before the begining of the manga. Time Machine chapter was a long ago flashback. His feelings are the same from the begining of manga.
    He was crying cause he just rejected a hot girl and could of been boning her all night (heh, excuse the language). That just means hes a guy. And now that you agree his feelings are the same from the beginning of the manga we have little to argue. Again you are on the point to prove character development.

    He let his guard down because he was talking about his dream life with Tenma. And then Tae made certain moves on him. He understood what she wants (he is not an absolute idiot after all and it was sooo obvious) but he never stoped to think about Tenma at the moment. Now, what he is crying about? About impossibility of his dream come true or about Tae?

    He started to like Tenma before the begining of the manga. Time Machine chapter was a long ago flashback. His feelings are the same from the begining of manga.
    In both situation his manhood was tested. I think sharing a blanket is much more worrisome for a guy then a coming-on because theres a touch and intimacy to it. In both situation he refrained from doing anything and in both instances his feelings for Tenma were not affected permenantly. So again, it's your emphasis to prove CHARACTER development.

    The main story of FB is destrucion of curse. Tohru plays active part in it. Tohru gets development. Tohru is protagonist. Yuki is the reason Tohru entered the family. Yuki plays important role. Yuki is protagonist. Kyo is the reason for Tohru's development. Kyo plays important role. Kyo is protagonist.
    Wow, so your logic is that if you play an important role in a story that makes you the main character/main protagonist? LOL. I just don't know what to say. Look, even the smallest characters can play an important role and a big character can play an important role. What differs from the main protagonist from all other characters is the fact that he/she/they are the protagonist of the MAIN storyline. Not just "plays an important role" Again, TOHRU is the SOLE main protagonist/character.

    The core of LH story is Keitaro's and Naru's childhood memory and promise to go to TU together. All the conflict revolves around this and all the girls who have chances with Keitaro are connected to this story, other are just one-sided lrelationships and have no chances. Of these chilhood girls Naru has the most development and screen time. She is, no doubt, protagonist. Just as Keitaru.
    It's told from Keitaro's prespective however. Remember for a long time it was doubtable that Naru was the promised girl and Mutsume was. KEITARO conflict was to get into Tokyo U and find out who the promised girl is meanwhile sorting out his feelings. And again, rule of harem manga, usually whoever is on the other end receiving the harem is the main character and sole protagonist. If you don't believe me on this check out Vol. 14 manga summary on Love Hina where it states that "Keitaro is a nice but chronically unlucky protagonist". Again I worry about how you define protagonist. Protagonist =/= important character. You can't just label protagonist to someone because they are an important character.


    Unlike article, the main goal of which is to give definition, SR article is a simple description. Definitions are given by specialists. Descriptions are written by fans. It doesn't mean that the socond one is worser, but it does mean that it can be critisised easily. For example, I do not see where in the article it is proven that Tenma and Harima are protagonists. They are simply postulating it. Which is rather strange.
    That's strange because I distinctly remember an ABSOLUTE CANON from KJ himself saying DEFINITIVELY who is the main protagonist/character and who is the secondary protagonist (ie, male protagonist) so you must of ignore this fact. Wikipedia, and I think you are mistaking it for a dictionary, gives a blank definition of the word protagonist and provides examples of different types of protagonist. And it's definitions are subject to just the same criticism as something pronouncing a main character in a manga (even if it the author HIMSELF said that main character is the main character).

    What limit authors are readers. The thing is, it is not interesting to read a totally static story. Detective authors dealt with it using mysteries and thier solvation. Old love stories wrighters dealt with it using romantically filled action. Most of wrighters dealt with it by developing thier protagonists.

    If SR was formula fiction then it must have been labeled as harem manga with Harima as center of harem and all girls wanting to get him. And of course in the end he would be with Tenma.
    Authors aren't limited to readers. And KJ has not created a static story, you are mistaking static character development and static story. And as far as love/comedy serials goes with developing protagonists see Archie. Again authors aren't limited to your views of what a protagonist is. They can change, take a backseat, be static or w/e. It's how the author wanted the character to move through the story.

    Second point, Ichigo 100%. SR isn't really a harem.

    Ever heard of philology?
    Sigh. You know what story writing is right? The making of mangas/movies/pictures. It's called art. Art isn't limited the same way as science and you can not measure it or quantify it or have a distinct answer. That is why there is no book out there, that defines protagonist that all people can agree on. Protein is something that can be broke down to the smallest degree, measured, quantified and classified. You can define it finitely. The different here is like defining, narrative and vitamin. Do you see the difference now or is it all the same?
    Last edited by aulzon; 08-22-2007 at 01:48 PM.

  2. #52
    aulzon is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    It is absolutely essential for language for the words to be agreed upon; after all, people make all kinds of misunderstandings when they don’t use the agreed upon definitions.
    Again read the top. And again, Wiki is an encyclopedia. Not a dictionary. It defines protagonist in the simpliest terms then list the examples of cases of protagonist. The problem is you guys are taking the examples as the only existence of cases of protagonist to prove the basis of your argument. (BTW, the same website of the basis of your arguments dispels your own argument)

    If the main storyline is Tenma’s, then the main storyline is True Oudou. Neither Flag nor Onigiri interfere with that pairing, so both fail to antagonize the “main” storyline. The only one I see really doing so is Oudou.
    The main storyline is intertwined. I've already said Harima is the male protagonist so his storyline is just as important. (Romeo & Juliet example of tow intertwining stories and protagonist, FMA, and the Great Gatsby)

    I notice you're still going on about Harima opening more to Yakumo than Eri, despite me pointing out that Yakumo knowing about Harima is mostly due to his transparency, rather than him confiding in her.
    Why not confide in Eri? From your stance, he is suppose to be close with her. If this is not true then you'll agree with this: Harima is able to trust Yakumo more and confide in her more or Eri is not close with Harima.

    You seem to be contradicting yourself.
    You must of misread my statements. reinard was asking find where he said Tohru is not the protagonist and I said, Tohru is not the sole main PROTAGONIST, to emphasis what he said. (Because he thinks Kyo and Yuki are the protagonist as well).

    This is due to the story being told from Tohru’s perspective. The story being told from her perspective is one of the aspects of what makes her the protagonist. It’s what makes Scout the protagonist of To Kill a Mockingbird. And it’s why Eri is the protagonist in later volumes of School Rumble.
    The Great Gatsby. It's narrated by Nick (who is an actual character) and tells the story from his eyes of Gatsby. Narrators aren't always the main protagonist. But that's arguable. And again, I've said Tohru is the sole protagonist so you are not arguing with me here (point that out to reinard). And SR has many revolving narrators and protagonist of individual chapters and arcs but the main story is still prevalent since chapter 1 to chapter 237 and we are trying to decide who is the MAIN CHARACTER and MAIN PROTAGONIST(S).

    Considering that Wiki’s article matches everything my teachers taught me in school about protagonists, in addition to holding up to other definitions of the word I’ve encountered in more respectable sources, I doubt that they have screwed up.
    Again, Wiki defines protagonist and gives examples. I agree Wiki's definition is good but I"m not here to debate that. I"m here to say that Wiki never limits the definition. It just points out examples of different protagonist. Again, you argued before that the population of Elephants can be tripled on Wiki and it's not a reliable source so you are contradicting yourself here.

    Stories aren’t limited...yet, they’re limited to one protagonist created near the beginning and are incapable of changing this? You’re stating authors have absolute power in one part of your post, yet denying that they do elsewhere. You appear to be contradicting yourself.
    I've never said protagonist can't change (false protagonist), so don't make that up. Protagonist can change but we have yet to seen Tenma's presence left the manga and this is already VOL. 6 into the manga and still Tenma main storyline is the FEATURED on Vol. 6.


    Summaries aren't canon. The actual material they summarize is; try forming opinions by reading the source instead of abridged copies of it. Furthermore, you constantly forget that Kobayashi, in fact, ridicules Tenma’s role as the “main character” on that character card.
    Summaries are very much canon because authors use them to bridge the series of manga. This is used in comics book as well and will put the MAIN storyline in and catch us up and glue the whole manga/comic series together. And I don't forget that KJ puts a mediocre score on main character because I explained. Tenma is very average (in terms of looks) and doesn't fit the title of main character (when so much of her friends are more robust) but you still seem to forget that he put her as MAIN CHARACTER. That's an unchangeable fact and you can not maneuver it.

  3. #53
    eviscerator is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Quote Originally Posted by aulzon View Post
    That's an unchangeable fact and you can not maneuver it.
    Actually, that's a very changeable fact. I think most people can agree that the original intention was to have Tenma as a main character, but I think that's changed. She's still the most two-dimensional character in the cast relative to her appearances; she hasn't changed much since she first appeared. Compare other characters, even the supporting ones like Yakumo, and you'll find that even they have developed way more than Tenma. And some of them have been developed in half the screen time Tenma had.

    I'll say this: Eri started as a supporting character, but she's developed the most since then. Good for her. Harima started main and stayed main because he was developed. Tenma is stagnant. That's not saying that development = main character. I think I said sometime back that a main character doesn't need development. I hold by that, but development is only one factor. I'll leave the rest to the more knowledgeable people here, like reinard and ultraness.
    You make your face a mask. A mask to hide your face. A face to hide the pain. A pain that eats your heart. A heart nobody knows.

  4. #54
    aulzon is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Actually, that's a very changeable fact. I think most people can agree that the original intention was to have Tenma as a main character, but I think that's changed. She's still the most two-dimensional character in the cast relative to her appearances; she hasn't changed much since she first appeared. Compare other characters, even the supporting ones like Yakumo, and you'll find that even they have developed way more than Tenma. And some of them have been developed in half the screen time Tenma had.

    I'll say this: Eri started as a supporting character, but she's developed the most since then. Good for her. Harima started main and stayed main because he was developed. Tenma is stagnant. That's not saying that development = main character. I think I said sometime back that a main character doesn't need development. I hold by that, but development is only one factor. I'll leave the rest to the more knowledgeable people here, like reinard and ultraness.
    It's still unchangeable that KJ wrote main character for Tenma and vol 1-6 has her main story as the summary. I think you are correct in some areas but again, SR is a story with lots of characters and lots of different interchanging storylines that KJ switches focus from (maybe we both agree on that). I'm talking here about the main one (and the two main protagonist in them) that has been prevalent as the main one since beginning til now.

  5. #55
    NeoSapien is offline Senior Member Regular
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    It seems that the female main character spotlight has shifted from Eri back to Tenma in recent chapters. Since chapter 217 and the climax of the Eri / Harima arc, Eri has been pushed back into a supporting role with Tenma becoming the main female character and driving the plot once again (though loosely, with lots of focus on side characters). Also Tenma is still the "official" main character, as seen by her prominence on the cover of the issue containing chapter 250:

    http://mvs.maplesnow.net/public/Scho...le/250/001.jpg

  6. #56
    mavnent is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    It seems that the female main character spotlight has shifted from Eri back to Tenma in recent chapters. Since chapter 217 and the climax of the Eri / Harima arc, Eri has been pushed back into a supporting role with Tenma becoming the main female character and driving the plot once again (though loosely, with lots of focus on side characters). Also Tenma is still the "official" main character, as seen by her prominence on the cover of the issue containing chapter 250:

    http://mvs.maplesnow.net/public/Scho...le/250/001.jpg
    Neosapin makes good point. Eri has not show up much for last 8-10 chapters and Yakumo has show up very much. Also big Yakumo picture mean that Yakumo is official main character. This show that Yakumo is now true heroine for all of school rumble story right??

    Since chapter 30 and the climax of Tenma arc, Tenma get push back into supporting role. Since chapter 242 and climax of Eri arc, Eri get push back into supporting role. This leave only Yakumo.
    Last edited by mavnent; 11-18-2007 at 08:07 AM.

  7. #57
    NeoSapien is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Wow, this forum is dead. I expected some strong responses defending Eri's position as most important female character after my and mavnent's posts, and yet... nothing.

  8. #58
    Kolox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Naah, I wouldn't !! Eri deserves for someone better than Harima, I always thought that - I don't want her to be with Hige

  9. #59
    NeoSapien is offline Senior Member Regular
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    But it isn't even entirely about who should end up with Harima; or at least, that's not what my post was about. I just wanted to make the point that Eri's period of prominence seems to have ended, with Tenma returning to the central role, sort of. I guess no one disagrees much?

  10. #60
    Kolox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Nope, I at least don't.

    Unless you Shanks is back, Eri will remain as she is...

 

 
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