Well, he's her mentor and he just became a professional mangaka by getting that serialization. It's understandable that she'd be nervous about telling him that she wants to follow in his footsteps, given what he's achieved.Originally Posted by reinard-fox
There's still no new revelations to be found here, though.
They talked about their futures, read manga together...
...and then he farted...
what does Karasuma have anyways....
You're changing the main arguing point to bash Yakumo, something you do a lot. It's not inconsiderate if you want the guy you like/love to confess his feelings to Tenma. If Harima does find closure in Tenma that would leave room to another girl, that's sure is considerate to Eri as well. And Yakumo knows of Tenma's feeling for Karasuma are almost as obstinance as Harima's feeling for Tenma. That's why getting Harima's confession out is probably the best idea for all parties considered.Yeah. Yakumo knowledge of Tenma’s feelings for Karasuma, and her awareness of the budding relationship between Eri and Harima, is why her actions to push for Oudou are so inconsiderate.
Nowhere in the passages you quote do I say Yakumo was giving Harima potato-shrimp in order to hook him up with Tenma, nor do I fail to imply that Yakumo is not helping Harima express feelings for Tenma.This is way too direct and also a perfect example of what she did to gain favour with Harima. This was what, right after the dance thing too (and rumours of them going out)? What do you think she expected from doing this.Explain how she was expecting a favor from it. She sewed “Harima” on the jersey, not “Hey, Harima, you owe me for this.” Never is Eri shown to be expecting anything from the action to suggest Eri wanting the jersey to be anything more than a symbol of her acknowledgement to herself that she’s interested in Harima.
1. Yakumo and Harima during that cosplay event where she pretended to be the manga master and convinced him to keep drawing manga. Yakumo took the initiative to do this.Give me at least two examples of Yakumo helping Harima out of a jam by her own initiative. One is the shrimp incident, so you only need to think of one. Should be easy, huh?
2. Yakumo helping out Harima gather fire wood during the outing in the early chapters.
Ding. Yeah that was easy. You want more? And this proves that Yakumo is not out to woo Harima. Yakumo liking Harima was just a consequence of Harima asking Yakumo to help him. So thanks for putting a supporting point into my argument.
Bashing Tenma to excuse Eri, another nice try from the Eri homer. For the first thing isn't that a little too much to expect from someone who would shun someone out in the cold to go on a date? And again, what do you expect from Tenma? Eri herself is the queen of misunderstanding and yet she still doesn't know that Tenma likes Karasuma too much to care about Harima? And what is this with the sense of entitlement you have placed on Eri? Maybe Harima wants to be with Tenma. Maybe Eri should stay out of Harima being with Tenma and not the other way around. Eri doesn't have a monopoly on Harima and she shouldn't lash out anyone that "seems" to be friendly with him. But like I said again, history has proved time and time again that she just has to be that person.Just simple things, like comforting a friend after appearing to get rejected by the person Tenma believes to be Eri's boyfriend, or asking Eri and Harima to go to a shrimp party at the same time, since she thinks they're a couple. Just things anyone with common sense would do.
[PHP]Yakumo actually realizes that she was wrong to slap Eri. Why do you think she breaks down after the slap? And she still hasn't made any effort to apologize to Eri for it.
Eri homerism point. Again it's always Eri is the victim. Yakumo knew what she did was right to Eri. If you hear that speech throughout 215 about protecting her sister you will find, "That's what I thought when I slapped her." So the slap was to protect her sister. And yeah, it's typical for you to expect an apology from Yakumo.. and Tenma... and probably the rest of the cast of SR to apologize to Eri for all the trouble they caused her.
Ah, it is nice to have hindsight, but that was what Eri wanted. Rudely revealing her secrets? Ohhh, right so after all that time she spent together with Harima and dropping hints here and there, that the message wasn't clear enough of what her intentions were. Yeah, big secret. And the results are the results, that's Harima decision and it had nothing to do with Yakumo.It's interference, regardless of what Yakumo's intentions were, since Yakumo decided to step in. Judging from the results, it wasn't helpful, either. If Yakumo had really wanted to help Eri, she would have been better off trying to get Eri to confess to Harima instead of rudely revealing her secrets.
Yeah but what's the point of overcoming a conflict when the major point here is you're don't even understand who you're so called spouse likes. I'm not arguing for perfect understand, just some. When you miss something big like who you're love, loves time and time again and what is in his heart than what is the point of that. How will you know if they even love you truely. Where is the basis for even a relationship.I've never heard of a two people who understood each other perfectly. This is why basically all couples have misunderstandings and some marriages end in divorce. What separates the successful relationships from those that don't pan out has much more to do with whether or not the pair is able to overcome conflict, rather than avoid it. And Eri and Harima have shown themselves able to do overcome conflict, which is why it's very credible that their relationship could work out.
Thanks for conceding the point, Yakumo is more mature.I regret not making it clear that I meant the two went through similar scenarios instead of implying both had a similar level of maturity. The two do handle Tenma rather differently.
I've already dealt with this. Did Eri say, hey damn that Yakumo for slapping me. Did Yakumo made Eri relationship worse with Tenma or better? Did the slap lead to Yakumo or Eri fighting. Oh, they will probably fight in the future but I doubt it's because of the slap. Yakumo listed why she knew it was right, and Eri had no problems with it. She reflected how she treated Tenma afterwards. You can argue with how the slap appears to your Eri-infected perception but you can't argue with the consequences and end results.Hardly. Yakumo breaks down in Chapter 215 because she’s aware what she did was wrong. People being content with what they've done don't have mental breakdowns, after all.
Eri expects Harima to be hers. Every girl she has viewed as liking Harima, she has alienated in some way. That's like the "it's my toy" mindset that many spoiled kids expect. Harima is his own guy, with his own wants. Running away from home? Real mature way to act to your parents. Unfortunately there are many stereotypes and archetypes in this manga but each person who has a favourite character thinks that their characters are above it, which in itself is real homerism.When you generalize evidence that she’s not spoiled brat in order to dismiss it, you demonstrate yourself as incapable of moving past a stereotype. Eri can’t do much more to prove herself as someone not spoiled by a life of opulence.
I don't want this tea, I want it from Osaka or something? That sounds like a real diva right there.Okay, I’m looking at it. How about elaborating why this means she’s spoiled?
Because, that is what Eri wants. Isn't that what being spoiled means? Getting what you want, whatever the costs, grabbing your parent's attention while doing it? And independent? Hardly. I don't think sleeping over at your friends house and having a butler follow you constantly constitutes as independence.How is someone desiring to become independent of their parents denote that they’re spoiled? It’s a sign of maturity, and far from being anything disrespectful.
Ahh, good point considering my last couple of points were proving her to be inconsiderated, selfish and spoiled but let's pick this apart. Eri thinks Tenma hurt her. Eri thinks everyone is out to hurt her. If she didn't had a history of repeatedly misunderstanding people feeling and intentions then maybe I would look the other way but no.Understanding the characters' points of views and realizing that they don't know everything the audience does is critical if you ever want to comprehend the chapters. If you don't bother to, you'll never grasp the reasons behind the characters' actions and will end up making unfounded accusations of characters' being inconsiderate, selfish, and spoiled.
Once again, your western view of the slap erodes your perception of the event. So I'll try to get you to look at it more critically (which will be hard). Did she get her act together? Tell me, what happened in the next chapter? Was she fuming? How did she look after receiving the slap? How did she look when by herself? Was she thinking, hey damn that Yakumo for slapping me or was she thinking how she wronged Tenma? Take off your Eri sun glasses and you will find all your answers my friend. And sometimes things don't have to be said for a messages to be received.You need to realize that other characters will also say something enlightening (like “get your act together”) to the person they slap in order to get a message across. The slap is never the point; what is said to the person that’s slapped is what matters. When characters slap people and soon walk away, it’s not a message. It’s simply a childish act of aggression.
And when did Yakumo ever say that the two were more than this. Once again Eri misunderstands a situation. She was jumping to conclusions and she didn't even give Yakumo a chance to say anything.Clearly, Yakumo would have done this if Eri hadn't asked Yakumo to tell her what her relationship with Harima was.
First you admit I was right. Secondly, Yakumo did what she did because of what Eri had already said to Tenma and that's the true point and I'll concede that I made that point wrongly about would of saying something bad but that doesn't ignore the point that Eri had already said bad things about Tenma. This was my first point about the slap:You argue that Yakumo stopped Eri from saying something bad about Tenma in your post, which is merely something that could have happened. I see no reason for you to criticize me for this when you do the exact same thing.
"Uh, you didn't see the consequences of the slap. The slap was symbolic as well as physical to Eri (get your act together, stop ignoring your friend). Did it cause conflict? Not really, Eri and Tenma got back together. So I don't know what point you are trying to prove with that."
I argued with the consequences of the slap, you argued that the slap "could of" been conflicting and lead to more conflicts.
"As I said in my last post, my point that Eri's name being mentioned motivating Yakumo to tell her friends whom Harima likes agrees with your assessment of the chapter Yakumo saying who Harima likes."
First, I never said Yakumo told her friends who Harima like, just who she thought Harima like. And she thought it in her head. So read the chapter again and really examine it. Remember our arguing point here, it was was Yakumo wanted Tenma and Harima together in this chapter or who she thought (well knew) Harima liked.
No it's related. Yakumo knew that Tenma was off to find Eri so her not being with Eri was a surprise.The scene two chapters earlier is unrelated to which person Yakumo reacts to first in Chapter 211.
Eri whereabout's directly relate to Tenma's whereabouts. Once again, read chapter 209, page 6. Where Tenma said she is going off to apologize to Eri. When Harima tells Yakumo, "I had to spend the whole day with Ojou in a family restaurant." and then she said, "What, Eri wasn't with Nee-san yesterday?". Now wouldn't it be weird, if I called you and said, "Hey I spent the day with Tom." and then you said, "What Adam wasn't with Tom yesterday?". Tom was the emphasis on the previous sentence, Yakumo had thought Tenma was with Eri yesterday so when Harima said it, whether or not Eri was the subject or her location was the subject it still had to do with Tenma's whereabouts. I feel like I have to explain things in the simpliest forms to explain you're inane arguments. Things could be so easier if it wasn't Eri this and Eri that. Maybe people are thinking about other things than Eri.Eri being the subject matter of the sentence confirms which person's whereabouts she's thinking about, though the way Yakumo says Eri's name first and pauses also points out that her mind became focused on Eri.
Also, you're constantly neglecting that Yakumo admits about slapping Eri being motivated by a desire to protect her sister in Chapter 215.
Once again, you're point was to prove Yakumo trying to interfere with Eri and Harima's relationship yet you failed to do that and instead relied on your misinterpretation of her "intent", which you obviously know since you are the mangaka. Yakumo sees Harima, Harima picks her up, Harima carries her home, she feels good. Yakumo likes Harima so being picked up by him makes her feel good (I'm sure Eri would feel good if she was in that situation as well). Where was the intent to seperate the two again? Her feeling good? You're interpretation of her feeling good was seperating Eri, my interpretation was hey, maybe Yakumo likes Harima and it feels good to be in his arm. I dunno, it's a long stretch ne? But of course, the emphasis is here on Yakumo's evil witchery. Just like that stunt she pulled during the lobster event, that evil wench!Yakumo sees Harima wavering between choosing which house to go to, and the look of relief she has (as a cat) suggested that her intent was to separate the two. Chapter 215 confirms this.
I've already dealt with this unless you bothered to read. Tell me where was the attempt to interfere between Eri and Harima? Now your turn.Well, Yakumo doesn't do anything to attempt interfering with Flag in Chapter 206. It simply shows that Yakumo does not like the two's relationship and would want to interfere with them.
Wow... I already countered your "logic" but you see it as dancing around because of whatever problems you have. I'll try to explain it in simpliest terms again.I used reason to deduce what Yakumo likely said. If I'm wrong, it should be easy enough for you to counter my logic instead of dancing around it. You seem to forget how ambivalent Yakumo was concerning her relationship with Harima around before the play, in addition to the fact that Eri directly asking Yakumo about her relationship with Harima is why Yakumo cleared things up.
I said: "Uh, that's very convenient for you to make up what Yakumo said when it is hidden. And that's very interesting that you say Yakumo contributed to Eri's misunderstanding which is interesting yet you seem to forget when they danced afterwards and Yakumo told them of the nature of their relationship."
You said previously: "Yakumo's response is hidden, but Eri's reaction highly suggests Yakumo told Eri she was in a relationship with Harima. Meaning, Yakumo contributed to Eri's misunderstanding."
Now heres the thing. You said in that hidden box that no one can see, that Yakumo obviously said she was in a relationship with Harima. Now here's the question you have to have. And by using this question you will have your answer. Why did Eri asked Yakumo about the nature of their relationship during the dance when, in your mind, Yakumo hidden response during the play was she was in a relationship with Harima? Get it out now? Eureka! Wow, so much 'splaining to do. And our point was you said Yakumo contributed to Eri's misunderstanding which doesn't make sense again since when Eri asked Yakumo she told the truth that she was only an assistant.
That still doesn't explain why she went through all that trouble just to deny it. You said she wanted to take risk in the relationships, so you have to explain why take those risk when she denied their ultimate outcome. Which is confess to Harima.It's part of her personality. I don't know why this is a big deal when nearly everyone in the series does the same in similar scenarios.
Tae was just another misunderstanding I used a point to back up that Eri doesn't understand. Tae had to tell her the nature of their relationship, Eri didn't figure it out by herself. And since you've already acknowledged that Eri is a character that causes many conflicts it doesn't matter.The two never had a feud, nor was there ever any conflict between them.
Once again, why is it that Yakumo has to explain anything to Eri about their relationship at that point in time and that proves that she is spoiled and your focus is constantly on her. If they did have a relationship Yakumo didn't have to explain anything to Eri. Secondly, when Eri asked Yakumo directly the nature of their relationship, Yakumo told Eri truthfully. Eri jumped to conclusions, just like she did with Tae, Mikoto, Tenma, etc until she was told otherwise.Yakumo needed to be prodded by Eri multiple times before she told Eri the nature of her relationship with Harima; she was reactive, not proactive
Firstly, Eri realized she wronged Tenma so even if Tenma was apologizing to her (which she had no reason to), Eri knew it was her fault. And continuing to be mad at her? Yeah, that's very noble, Eri you exemplify kindness T_T. Tenma was still the one with the initiative here to mend their relationship so you haven't prove anything but your Eri homerism.Eri chose to accept the apology instead of continuing to be mad at her.
Even if she wasn't going to continue badmouthing Tenma doesn't ignore that fact that she was already badmouthing her and was just in the process of badmouthing her so the slap was in Yakumo mind to prevent her from berating her sister. Even if that "could have" statement didn't stand it still excuse Eri from what she was already doing, which was badmouthing Tenma.As we don't know if Eri was going to continue "badmouth" Tenma (and the revelation that what Eri chose as the most important thing to her was her friendships in later chapters strongly implies that Eri wasn't going to) thanks to Yakumo slapping Eri, you are making one of the "could have" statements that you criticize me earlier for in your post.
And had Eri truly had a negative opinion of Tenma, no amount of physical violence from Yakumo would have changed that opinion. It would only make her afraid of voicing it in front of Yakumo.
Again reflect back to the statement I gave you previously about the slap, which you greatly misinterpret.
One girl can mean everything to one person, one girl (Tenma) for Harima = the general perception. Reputation also means "The state or situation of being held in high esteem." It didn't really look good when he took a girl that didn't like him and rejected her, especially if that girl was a friend of a girl you loved.Reputations represent how everyone else in general perceive you, not one girl.
Too long, too be continued
Once again. This goes back to the taking risk arguments. Harima had just won the relay race and saved Eri from dropping the ball on the race and costing the class the victory. The argument is whether it was a risk to ask someone who just saved you to a dance. And it applies to Harima. And in his own mind, he didn't think any thing of the dance. Just a token of gratitude.Harima is part of the class she's in front of it.
Seems like your backing away from the evidence I presented to you and instead of arguing that you are arguing Eri's ability to understand, something you acknowledged by making this point, very suspect. But it's interesting you can use her not understanding people feelings and situation (which I argue), to not understanding a simple statement."The scene you constantly quote does not have Yakumo directly stating that Harima likes Tenma nor does it directly state that Eri understands Yakumo. Nowhere is there a direct statement that Eri understood Yakumo. Furthermore, I find it ridiculous that you constantly promote Eri's ability to misunderstand people yet will believe she's understood someone when it suits your purposes."
Again, since you are backing away from the evidence, and diverting it to soemthing else. The emphasis right here was after the statement, "Harima likes shrimp", Eri knew that Harima liked Tenma but bringing this up, chapter 211 (which was after the lobster event), you just further my point that Eri believed what she did was wrong because she knew Harima liked Tenma and was punishing Tenma instead of Harima. And remember in 207, Tenma was talking with Harima about how it was going with Harima + Eri. In 202 Tenma was going, "Still, I love it when your sweet like that." and acting way nicer to Harima and to someone like Eri who can misunderstanding feelings and sitations like that, why hadn't she act out then but act out after 205 (when Yakumo told Eri Harima liked "shrimp"). I feel like you beating a dead horse, just concede this point because you are wrong on many levels.Because Eri believed Tenma was making advances towards Harima. Chapter 211 makes this clear enough when Eri has the realization that Tenma was doing nothing wrong, denoting that Eri believed Tenma was doing something wrong. Also, that she’s acting against Tenma instead of Harima is rather telling.
"Eri certainly had suspicions that Harima likes Tenma between Chapters 202-213, but there’s nothing to confirm that she believed it prior to Chapter 214." - You
Yet you make a point that Harima left school because he likes Eri (which obviously is not the case, unless Harima has thoughts we don't see). Or Harima went back to school (first time) because of Eri's talk when it was Mikoto.As the reasons he comes back to school seems to rely on coincidental meetings with random people, I'm not sure how anyone is supposed to conclude anything from the duration he stayed away from school.
Once again if Harima believed Eri hated him after all the time they spent together, and here I say it again, Eri has a long way to go. And don't respond this time with, "But Eri doesn't hate him" because that doesn't mean anything. Yes we all know Eri doesn't hate Harima, but if Harima thought that Eri hated him. I'll say it again. If Harima thought that Eri hated him.It's not very difficult to understand. Because Harima believed Eri hated him, it would be much more shocking for him to hear that she loves him since Eri revealing this would contradict his perception of her most of all.
OMG, ad hominem! I know enough about math that I don't use it to analyze who is the main character in School Rumble, lol. Let's break it down for you.2=1? Perhaps you should go back to math class and learn about inequalities.
When one uses the word secondary protagonist you are acknowledging, that there are two converging plot lines with two characters at the central point of that plot line.
For example, Full Metal Alchemist, the secondary protagonist is Alphonse, and the principle protagonist is Edward. Both are still the main character. It's more like 1 = 1a, 1 = 1b. And yet agaiin, there may be debate whether Harima is the main character or Tenma is the main character and I'll acknowledge that but that still would mean Eri is not the main character. I've already said Tenma is the main female character and Vol. 1 Cover is the proof that she is.
I've already stated the reaons why the most of the romantic encounters been with Eri. Great number of conflicts, great number of misunderstandings. Even if Eri and Harima had the greatest number of "romantic" encounters that would still suggest that Harima is the main male character and...It's more like there's two separate love lives, one being Tenma's and the other being the love adventures of Harima. Yet, Harima's love life seems to have the greater number of appearances, and most of his romantic encounters have been with Eri. That would imply that Eri and Harima are the two leads, instead.
"The card describes Tenma as the main character, but even Kobayashi acknowledges that she hardly does a good job at it by giving her a mediocre level on the character node for "main character.""
That Tenma is the main female character. This point just proves it. So good job. KJ said it himself.
See above. Since KJ wrote main character under Tenma I guess wikipedia has it right. You watch too much fake news. (Colbert I presume) Even though, yes a mass effort to edit the claim that elephant population has tripled, it is usually edited back for vandalism and people will have to provide their sources for citing their fact. I would want you to go on the Elephant page of wikipedia now, and prove any of it wrong and if you find an error in facts (which could happen, I'm not saying wiki is invulnerable to mass vandalism which Colbert advocated in order to get the information changed for a very short period of time) then I will concede this point but not the main character point.Well, which is better to believe? Character summaries written by people based primarily on the first few volumes, or the actual series written by Jin Kobayashi? In addition, Wikipedia is not a very reliable authority for information. Anyone could edit the document about elephants to say that their population has tripled in the past year, but that wouldn’t triple the population of elephants.
Hoarding recent chapters doesn't make someone a main character. And already, all the summaries of the manga say Tenma and Harima are the main characters. KJ wrote main character on Tenma under his card. The main character usually is introduced in Volume 1 of the manga as the main character. And if Eri isn't the main character around volume five like you said then she isn't the main character and therefore you are deluded. SR will constantly add new people and focus on other storylines in order to write new chapters, it's hard to constantly focus on the main storyline when a manga is as random as SR. But the main character will be the main character.Actually, I included Eri's hoarding of the spotlight and the story frequently being told from her point of view as reasons to consider her the main character, as well. If it makes you feel better, I don't think she's the main character in the first couple of volumes when she does not develop too much, does not appear too much, does not frequently act as the avatar for the readers, and does not fulfil most every standard requirement for being the main protagonist like she does beginning around Volume 5.
Moreover, I've stated that I view Eri as the main character for being developed more than everyone else, being at the center of story arcs, and so on, and that she meets my standard for being the main character better than everyone else, as a result. If you want to call me delusional, you'll need to prove that my reasons for Eri meeting my standard are wrong, not that my standard is.
You admited it was the main storyline, the main storyline has two protagonist.This will always be the main storyline. But we're not talking about what the main storyline is, are we?
Harima and Tenma are them. So am I beating a dead horse here? Isn't the main story of the manga suppose to be where you derive your main character? What was that? Eri isn't in the main storyline? Oh... so that means....
It's a saying. I know another saying as well, you can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. The truth is all around you my friend. I can't make you see it.Ever heard that cliché about judging a book by its cover?
You accuse Ultraness of "Eri Homerism" yet you fail to see your own Yakumo "goggles," as you've put it. You've both made some valid points in the god knows how many responses you have to eachother but you're both failing to see one important thing. You're two different people who are going to interpret things differently. Ultraness obviously favors Eri so he's going see things in a way that put her in a favorable light. You obviously favor Yakumo so you'll do the same for her. Does that make either interpretation wrong? no, it just makes them different.
One more thing...debating and trying to get the other to see why girl A is better boy Z than girl B is all fine and dandy, and I know from being here for awhile that Ultraness loves a good debate, but your petty insults towards him need to stop. Discussions and debates should be enlightening and encouraging.
Being biased towards whichever character you prefer is unavoidable. It's not the sort of thing you can consciously control, you could say the "goggles" are built-in. You can't take them off. I know I can't.
But if you learned literature in school, you'll find that you can read situations any way you want as long as you have evidence that backs it up, and until there's concrete proof otherwise, nobody can say you're absolutely wrong.
You make your face a mask. A mask to hide your face. A face to hide the pain. A pain that eats your heart. A heart nobody knows.
That "tea" scene was that scene when they went Camping and Eri wanted Harima to buy her a tea, but she said she didn't like that kind of tea (or was it a juice).
Here something you might not know. School Rumble is supposedly a romantic comedy.
The "tea/juice" scene was just to add comic relief to the series. Harima did the same thing to Eri, shortly after she cut his beard. Harima wanted Eri to go all the way to Kyoto for the tea. Its just a running hahaha between Harima and Eri including the naked Harima.
Also, I'd like a synopsis how your "Eri anti-sunglasses" sees Eri as inconsiderate, selfish, and spoiled. I already some of your examples and all I got to say is LOL. So, let's try again.
I'm not exactly sure which one started it, but there is no way in hell Eri is a main character. If anything she is more like a dynamic character.
Last edited by shikaboomboom; 08-17-2007 at 06:28 AM.
I have to agree with Mini Jesus and Eviscerator here.
Last edited by reinard-fox; 08-17-2007 at 07:12 AM.