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  1. #51
    ultraness is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien
    But wasn't 217 supposed to break Harima's tunnel vision? It apparently hasn't.
    Meh. That's in the past. It can still break in the future. I'd be more concerned if Eri actually told Harima that she loved him and it had no effect on him.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien
    Okay. But even if this does make Harima a monkey in Tenma's eyes, she doesn't have any right to object, since she saw Eri going along with it. Tenma isn't obligated to defend Eri's honor as she is with Yakumo.
    I would agree that she should stay out of Eri and Harima's business, but I doubt she will see it that way (she could easily see herself responsible for setting up their "debauchery"). She hasn't felt guilty playing with their love lives before, so there isn't any good reason to believe she'd stop now.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien
    If Tenma calls Harima a
    Go on.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien
    And the focus of Harima's love life is Tenma.
    Harima's love for Tenma is very egocentric; chapters focusing on his love life are often much more about him, as a result. The recent chapter was no exception. Why does he eat all that curry last chapter? To make Tenma happy? No, he did it so that his pride wouldn't suffer the blow of "loving" Tenma less than Karasuma.

    His love life isn't about Tenma. The focus of his love life is himself. Tenma just so happened to actually be present in the last two chapters. It doesn't change that the focus of the most recent chapters have been on Harima.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien
    Even in this chapter, which didn't have to include Tenma at all, she played a significant role.
    The end of the last chapter and the last one didn't have to include Nakamura or Eri in it, either. So what? Lots of characters appear when it isn't necessary for them to be there.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien
    The last three pages were all about setting up her misunderstanding.
    Big deal. The majority of the chapter focused on actual, more dramatic interactions between Eri and Harima.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien
    Tenma's reaction wasn't particularly funny. Romantic comedy includes some degree of drama; this could be part of it. Next chapter ought to elaborate on this; if not, it probably was just a gag.
    The silhouette joke wouldn't work if there wasn't someone to misunderstand it. Tenma was the best candidate to be the witness. Also, you may not have found her reaction very funny, but other people seem to.

    As for drama resulting from the gag, it's unlikely. First, Tenma does not have a dramatic expression while she sees the silhouettes; it's the comedic shape of her head she has, in addition to the comedic shadows (Kobayashi obscures eyes with hair or the panels when he wants to show the characters are serious). While the scenery is dark and gloomy in the last panel, it's her face that should be serious if she's had a dramatic change.

    Next, Tenma has a strong history of not being connected to drama in School Rumble; she's never seemed to go beyond a gag character, so I don't see it happening now. Kobayashi was able to transform her freezing to death into a gag, after all.

    Finally, Tenma didn't have a reaction to a serious moment between Harima and Eri. Tenma having dramatic focus in the next few chapters wouldn't mesh with the silliness of the scene she reacted to.
    Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

  2. #52
    Weimario-kun is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Yay, 227 is out. That bulter never ceases to shock me. A skirt is fine but the whole uniform and wig??? A scotsman's kilt is more decent in comparison.
    Oh nice one Ojou. You making your potential date 'very' uncomfortable, its so like you to push someone you like even further away. Ah well, no hard feelings since Harima is still rejecting you, so both even now.
    Tenma....hehehe, famous (almost) last words? (last words of chapter that is).
    "Those two are so childish": so ironic since she doesn't even understand half the situation.
    Why is it that she still thinks Harima and Eri be doing 'that' when the butler is still present? (hmm, could be a way to break the misunderstanding, with common sense).
    She jumps to conclusions way too quickly. I can see two possibilities:

    1>Tenma hold her words "they are too chlidish" to heart and 'tries' to prevent Harima and Eri from further 'monkey' business under the delusion that she is doing it for the best. Kind of like mistreating Harima in the same way when she thought he was dating Yakumo.

    2>She gets totally depressed and becomes uncomfortable around the two, isolation herself from the two (much to the dismay of Harima) while spreading rumours about the 'love affair'. Probably going to ruin it more for Flag than help it if history is any indication ('Tenma's misunderstanding' is a power to be reckoned with).

  3. #53
    NeoSapien is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    Meh. That's in the past. It can still break in the future. I'd be more concerned if Eri actually told Harima that she loved him and it had no effect on him.
    But Harima has heard that Eri loved him, and it did have little effect on him. As he said, he rejected her anyway. The novelty value is now gone. Would Harima even believe Eri if she told him again? At any rate, he needs closure on his feelings for Tenma before moving on, if ever.

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    I would agree that she should stay out of Eri and Harima's business, but I doubt she will see it that way (she could easily see herself responsible for setting up their "debauchery"). She hasn't felt guilty playing with their love lives before, so there isn't any good reason to believe she'd stop now.
    Gently pushing Harima and Eri together (which is something that Akira and Mikoto have been much more active at) is much different from trying to control their sex lives. If Tenma goes so far, something is wrong with her.


    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    Go on.
    If Tenma calls Harima a monkey now, she'll only be attacking his and Eri's personal choices that affect no one but themselves.


    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    Harima's love for Tenma is very egocentric; chapters focusing on his love life are often much more about him, as a result. The recent chapter was no exception. Why does he eat all that curry last chapter? To make Tenma happy? No, he did it so that his pride wouldn't suffer the blow of "loving" Tenma less than Karasuma.
    Harima's love for Tenma looks egocentric because Harima has kept it to himself and because there isn't much left to explore about its reasons for existence. At this point, Harima loves Tenma, period. And in Harima's eyes, the alternative to eating the curry and not losing to Karasuma would be not eating the curry and thus implicitly acknowledging that Karasuma loves Tenma more, which is practically the same as giving up altogether.
    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    His love life isn't about Tenma. The focus of his love life is himself. Tenma just so happened to actually be present in the last two chapters. It doesn't change that the focus of the most recent chapters have been on Harima.
    And that can easily change again, now that Tenma has experienced a possibly significant
    event.

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    The end of the last chapter and the last one didn't have to include Nakamura or Eri in it, either. So what? Lots of characters appear when it isn't necessary for them to be there.
    Yes they did. The objects of the end of the last chapter and the current one were to (1) resolve the situation between Harima and Eri and (2) set up Tenma's shock; it remains to be seen which is more significant. But both Eri and Nakamura were necessary to bring Eri to the hospital and set up the misunderstanding. If Tenma's misunderstanding is not going to be important, though, her presence in the latest chapter was unnecessary.

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    Big deal. The majority of the chapter focused on actual, more dramatic interactions between Eri and Harima.
    So? Chapter 224 (I think) focused on Harima's crisis and his interactions with Karasuma, but all of that evaporated once he saw Tenma. Harima and Eri's reconciliation could have been placed at any time and place that they next met, but Tenma's misunderstanding had to be specifically set up.

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    The silhouette joke wouldn't work if there wasn't someone to misunderstand it. Tenma was the best candidate to be the witness. Also, you may not have found her reaction very funny, but other people seem to.

    As for drama resulting from the gag, it's unlikely. First, Tenma does not have a dramatic expression while she sees the silhouettes; it's the comedic shape of her head she has, in addition to the comedic shadows (Kobayashi obscures eyes with hair or the panels when he wants to show the characters are serious). While the scenery is dark and gloomy in the last panel, it's her face that should be serious if she's had a dramatic change.

    Next, Tenma has a strong history of not being connected to drama in School Rumble; she's never seemed to go beyond a gag character, so I don't see it happening now. Kobayashi was able to transform her freezing to death into a gag, after all.
    Tenma's head is often comedic in shape even during serious situations for her; see the end of 207 and much of 208. And though Tenma's suffering in 207-212 was often accompanied by gags, it was meant to be serious.

    Edit: Tenma's expression was very similar to her distressed expression on page 5 of chapter 22, after Karasuma had apparently rebuffed her by coming in uniform. That's the most negative thing that has happened to her since her fight with Eri.
    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    Finally, Tenma didn't have a reaction to a serious moment between Harima and Eri. Tenma having dramatic focus in the next few chapters wouldn't mesh with the silliness of the scene she reacted to.
    The silliness was only from our perspective. From her perspective, it looked quite serious. And it clashed with Tenma's happiness for Harima and Eri immediately before her misunderstanding. This is the first time that Tenma has shown a negative reaction to Harima being with Eri, and it's taking place in the endgame of the manga. Right now, either Harima or Tenma (or both) need to start changing to resolve the various love triangles, and this situation is a perfect trigger for a change in Tenma... not so much for Harima, who made it through 217 without changing much.
    Last edited by NeoSapien; 06-08-2007 at 01:11 AM.

  4. #54
    liekiamhiung is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Nakamura really needs to change his dressing hobby, or the ladies will not find him charming.
    Eri is getting lovelier this chapter because she is getting more matured IMHO, and i like it. Although it seems that this chapter somehow closed some of the opportunity for Onigiri to comeback, but we'll see ( Y_Y )
    Plus got to see some Tenma silly expression again. Poor Tenma is so shocked that she acted like a "heart-broken" person. ( I understand now why the spoiler stated her to be heart-broken ^_^ ).

    Overall, a very good chapter indeed .Yay, a good drink to satisfy my thirst.
    LONG LIVE HIME-SAMA. MY LIFE FOR RUMBLANDIA!


  5. #55
    Purple Filth is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Nice chapter.

    I like the discussion NeoSapien and ultraness are having.

  6. #56
    Swampstorm is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien
    But despite Eri's optimism, there are two major dangers facing Flag. The first is that Harima is still(!) clueless and hasn't apparently changed his feelings towards Tenma or Eri. His reaction to Eri's smile wasn't positive. The endgame of the manga is not the time to be taking things slowly. Of course, it is always possible that Harima does have strong romantic feelings for Eri buried deep down that could burst out without warning at the appropriate trigger... but that leads us to danger 2.
    That isn't exactly new.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien
    The second and infinitely bigger danger is the last page. Tenma was already fully convinced that Harima and Eri were a couple and seemed quite happy about it... until she saw that. Tenma wasn't snooping; she announced herself as she reentered the room. Her primary emotion was probably shock, but it was a negative, gloomy shock. The bottom panel was particularly gloomy, especially when compared with how cheerful Tenma seemed earlier in the chapter.
    That's either dangerous to Flag or dangerous to Oudou. Even if Tenma threw aside her relationship with Karasuma, do you really think she is going to try to get closer to a guy who she thinks is in that sort of a relationship with her best friend?

    You seem to have forgotten that the source of our problems in recent times was Tenma's tendency to hang around Harima without giving Eri and Harima the space they need. This may just solve that problem - by bringing Tenma to acknowledge it as a serious relationship.

    I wouldn't call that response a depressed one. It's more of the feeling that you get when the wool falls from your eyes. There are some details that you really don't want to know.

  7. #57
    ultraness is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    But Harima has heard that Eri loved him, and it did have little effect on him. As he said, he rejected her anyway. The novelty value is now gone. Would Harima even believe Eri if she told him again?
    Hearing a confession from an outside source is never as powerful as hearing it from the actual person in literature. Whether Harima believes her would depend a lot on the context.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    If Tenma goes so far, something is wrong with her.
    Many things are wrong with Tenma. Also, I expect characters to make mistakes; plots wouldn't advance if characters always made the morally sound decisions.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    If Tenma calls Harima a monkey now, she'll only be attacking his and Eri's personal choices that affect no one but themselves.
    Not a bad thing if she believes those personal choices will have a negative effect on both of them. A true friend will have the courage to tell you that they think you're making a mistake, even at the risk of losing the friendship. The friend's safety should be more important than being on good terms with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Harima's love for Tenma looks egocentric because Harima has kept it to himself and because there isn't much left to explore about its reasons for existence. At this point, Harima loves Tenma, period.
    It looks egocentric because it is. Eri keeps her love to herself, but it doesn't look egocentric because she's demonstrated she cares more about Harima's happiness than her own, which Harima routinely fails to do around Tenma.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    And in Harima's eyes, the alternative to eating the curry and not losing to Karasuma would be not eating the curry and thus implicitly acknowledging that Karasuma loves Tenma more, which is practically the same as giving up altogether.
    That just shows there's something flawed with his love of Tenma. Harima should know he doesn't need to win some sort of contest.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    And that can easily change again, now that Tenma has experienced a possibly significant event.
    I doubt it will without Harima actually expressing himself, or more being done with the Karasuma situation.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Yes they did. The objectives of the end of the last chapter and the current one were to (1) resolve the situation between Harima and Eri and (2) set up Tenma's shock; it remains to be seen which is more significant. But both Eri and Nakamura were necessary to bring Eri to the hospital and set up the misunderstanding. If Tenma's misunderstanding is not going to be important, though, her presence in the latest chapter was unnecessary.
    Were those really the objectives of the last two chapters? Things change on the fly all the time in School Rumble. What seems important in one chapter gets forgotten in the next. Remember how the tension between Tenma and Eri was forgotten after Yakumo slapped Eri?

    Speaking of Yakumo, Tenma’s misunderstanding seems to directly set up something with her; usually, Tenma voices all her worries to her immediately. At the moment, I think that may be the significance of her misunderstanding.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    If Tenma's misunderstanding is not going to be important, though, her presence in the latest chapter was unnecessary.
    No, it will remain important because it gave the chapter a joke.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Harima and Eri's reconciliation could have been placed at any time and place that they next met, but Tenma's misunderstanding had to be specifically set up.
    That’s fine with me. I’d rather have natural Flag scenes instead of unnatural Oudou moments.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Tenma's head is often comedic in shape even during serious situations for her; see the end of 207 and much of 208. And though Tenma's suffering in 207-212 was often accompanied by gags, it was meant to be serious.
    Well, that's probably why Tenma fails as a dramatic character. It's nearly impossible to take her seriously. Also, the majority of the dramatic scenes in Chapters 207-212 focused on Eri.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Edit: Tenma's expression was very similar to her distressed expression on page 5 of chapter 22, after Karasuma had apparently rebuffed her by coming in uniform. That's the most negative thing that has happened to her since her fight with Eri.
    Tenma's distress on that page, and the whole street clothes dilemma, is silly. You're being stupid if you think that scene is supposed to be serious.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    This is the first time that Tenma has shown a negative reaction to Harima being with Eri, and it's taking place in the endgame of the manga. Right now, either Harima or Tenma (or both) need to start changing to resolve the various love triangles, and this situation is a perfect trigger for a change in Tenma... not so much for Harima, who made it through 217 without changing much.
    And what is Tenma reacting negatively to? Is it Harima being with Eri? Could it be Eri hanging around a monkey? Could she be upset that her friends didn't tell her that their relationship had gone so far?

    You shouldn’t assume so much when we can’t even be certain why Tenma is distressed.

    Quote Originally Posted by liekiamhiung
    Nakamura really needs to change his dressing hobby, or the ladies will not find him charming.
    Maybe Nakamura is not trying to charm the ladies...
    Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

  8. #58
    luisfcayo is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    I thought that it was a really good chapter, too, though my perspective on it is somewhat different. Harima and Eri settled the issue of the rejection in 217. It seems that Harima really was mainly embarrassed about the huge mistake that he made and how full of himself that it made him look. And Eri did lose the surface of her love for him, though the deeper feelings remained and could blossom again in the future.

    But despite Eri's optimism, there are two major dangers facing Flag. The first is that Harima is still(!) clueless and hasn't apparently changed his feelings towards Tenma or Eri. His reaction to Eri's smile wasn't positive. The endgame of the manga is not the time to be taking things slowly. Of course, it is always possible that Harima does have strong romantic feelings for Eri buried deep down that could burst out without warning at the appropriate trigger... but that leads us to danger 2.

    The second and infinitely bigger danger is the last page. Tenma was already fully convinced that Harima and Eri were a couple and seemed quite happy about it... until she saw that. Tenma wasn't snooping; she announced herself as she reentered the room. Her primary emotion was probably shock, but it was a negative, gloomy shock. The bottom panel was particularly gloomy, especially when compared with how cheerful Tenma seemed earlier in the chapter.

    So don't write off the last page. It may not be the quantum leap that forever changes the balance of power between the factions and cements the final outcome... but it probably wasn't a random, meaningless misunderstanding, either.
    But what do you expect LMFAO of course it was a negative shock... but not bloomy... lmao probably because she realized they were not as childish as she though they were. Especially after thinking Eri tried to pull some fisting action out of Harima or a rim job but... who cares.
    I dont think Tenma would get all gloomy after seeing Eri bent over and Harima right behind her... think about it lol she thought they were a cute couple from the beggining... well not cute anymore after seeing the scenario lmfao... thats just moving back to the same clueless spot we were all at about a week ago, with the crescent broken translation... it just doesnt make sense at all...
    Damnn and I thought I over-analized to my benefit...

  9. #59
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
    Digital_Eon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    I hate to say it, but I think the Flag fans are right, here. Who wouldn't be freaked out if they walked in to find two friends in a... compromising position? Even if Tenma has been pushing them together, that's still something she probably wouldn't want to see, if only because that's a private thing and she's an innocent person.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  10. #60
    ratzuei is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    I hate to say it, but I think the Flag fans are right, here. Who wouldn't be freaked out if they walked in to find two friends in a... compromising position? Even if Tenma has been pushing them together, that's still something she probably wouldn't want to see, if only because that's a private thing and she's an innocent person.
    Im with digital eon on this one. I think that i would be truly freaked out if i were to see this.

 

 
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