Originally Posted by Ultraness
Where does is ever say that Yakumo's words and reactions isn't jealousy. What I wrote is part of that interpretation/inference/deduction/understanding that I 've been refering.
Althought I'm not trying to create an antecedent, I propose some Ranma 1/2 examples of cliche:
Ranma never says that he loved Akane in a forward way (until the Phoenix arc, but then he denies it), but since the first chapter I thought that he liked her.
Akane never says that she loved Ranma, but the way she interacted with him made me infer that she loved him.
Was I wrong? Even today there are theories that tell me that's the case. During the duration of the manga, the readers were to interpret the actions, expresions, subtext, words, and a lot of factors for us to be able to enjoy the story.
But I acted without proof that Ranma loved Akane and Akane loved Ranma, it was only my interpretation of what was presented to me.
The above paragraph is an edition mistake. It should be:What exactly is your point? Just that she has a problem with Eri and Harima? I thought you were arguing that Yakumo was trying to break apart Eri and Harima for her own benefit; wouldn’t this mean that Yakumo does have an interest in Harima from your perspective and should have a problem with both Eri and Tenma?Originally Posted by El Ultimo
But that only reinforces my point - she has a problem with Eri and Harima, but not Tenma and Harima. If she was interested in having a relationship with Harima, then she would have a problem with both.
Followed for a very wordy example of logic and reason, which could only be appreciated for the most clear-thinking sages.Originally Posted by Swampstorm
Unfortunately I don't remember those words, but the idea was that Yakumo doesn't need to adjust to Swamstorm limited interpretation of jealousy. A manga character can feel jealous to the person and/or people who come close to the object of their affection.
Of course, this is my interpretation, but I must point to you and Swampstorm that your arguments/counterarguments use your interpretation of the same story, and as such, doesn't have any weight against mine, at least no more of what you'd like to think.
Wrong. Because of the "ambiguity" that you mention, You and I can only infer. There isn't a lot more that we can do. Also I must point that Yakumo pounded Hanai when he was thinking bad things about Tenma and Yakumo bested Eri in the beach game when Eri say bad things (in Yakumo eyes) about Tenma. So I'm pretty sure that the "avenging Yakumo" is a facet that she doesn't regret.Yakumo is not specific when talking about what she was wrong about. It could be that she was mistaken about her reason for slapping Eri, but Yakumo can also mean that her practise of doing what Tenma couldn't despite what she says is wrong. You can't infer which she is talking about, here, thanks to the ambiguity.Originally Posted by El Ultimo
Yakumo: That's why I can't forgive anyone that treats her like and Idiot. I had to do what Nee-san couldn't. Not matter what she (Tenma) would say.
Yakumo: That's what I thought when I slapped her ...But I was wrong...
(My understanding: she thought she was slapping Eri defending her sister's dignity, but she was really doing it for other reason: jealousy)
Again, you try to use your interpretation of the story as proof, when at the same time acknowledge that is not a simple task.It’s pretty simple. Yakumo has been interfering with Eri’s relationship with Harima for a while, but she was never certain that Eri loved him. Now that she knows that Eri loves him, the fact that she’s been interfering now hurts Yakumo.Originally Posted by El Ultimo
Yakumo: I know... I know that Sawachika-sempai is in love with Harima-sempai.
Yakumo: And... It hurts me so badly...
(If I am not wrong, you claimed that in the above scene and dialog, Yakumo is sorry for interfering between Eri and Harima, but I don't see the elements of proof for that)
Since Yakumo is rather vague, it can’t be confirmed this is what she’s talking about. On the other hand, since Yakumo is rather vague, it can’t be confirmed that she’s hurt because she’s jealous over Eri having feelings for Harima. So, because neither can be proven, which one is it? The simple explanation, or the complex one?
Saying: "It's pretty simple" and then telling me the truth using your understanding and deduction to conclude it, well, it isn't as valid as you think.
That's right, is my hypothesis, what's more, I wrote it (with ortographical mistake and all): "My hipothesis". What you have to offer as counter-argument is another non-proved-true hypothesis (which all hypothesis are by definition).It’s a hypothesis. Yakumo could simply be feeling terrible for trying to break apart Eri and Harima; that is a terrible thing to do when you know that one side is very interested in the other. Is it as complex as you make it out to be?Originally Posted by El Ultimo
Yakumo: I've buried so many things inside me ...and it's all building up...
Yakumo: I'm becoming a terrible person.
(My hipothesis: Yakumo say that she's becoming a terrible person because of the things she has done, trying to apart Eri and Harima for her [Yakumo] benefit, and not because she wanted to pair him with her sister)
If I where to, but that's not the case. I don't want any clash that would make (potentially) Out Of Character Eri and/or Yakumo. I didn't like it when Eri began trying to outdo Tenma "Tenma-iness" and try to gain Harima attention.Irrelevant. When you mention the problem of people's favouritism being a problem affecting many people's reasoning and then suggest that you don't have that problem, it just looks like you’re trying to raise yourself above everyone else.Originally Posted by El Ultimo
Just for the quiz:
My favorite characters in SR:
1st. Tenma, Eri, Harima, Hanai.
2nd. Mikoto, Karen, Imadori, Lala
3rd. AKira, Karasuma, Tougo
4th. Yakumo, Sara, Asou.
5th. Mai, Nishimoto, Nara
6th. The rest of students of 2-C.
7th. Teachers, Tae and other students.
So, as you can see, Yakumo is not in my first 3 places of favoritism.
Yakumo could be your least favorite character, and you could still want her to have an interest in Harima, which would affect your reasoning, if you wanted there to be a clash between Eri and Yakumo over Harima (with Eri coming out on top).
I thought it was funny, but didn't like it.
Yes. I also thought that School Rumble became more interesting when Harima and Eri had the first "moment" sharing the umbrella (ch. 23) and althought there wasn't any proof of something more romantic between those two in the inmediately chapters following that, my Wishful Thinking (logical fallacie) keept thinking that they made a good couple.Are you one of those people that thinks that the story would be more interesting if Yakumo had an interest in Harima?Originally Posted by El Ultimo
Lets remember that this is not a fight ot be won no matter the price, the fact that to many people (rel.) thinks that Yakumo feels something for Harima is (very probably) looked for the author and it makes the story more interesting than just having Eri pining for Harima, him pining for Tenma, she pining for Karasuma, and it pining for curry.
I also liked the introduction of Hanai as a counterpoint to Harima, the introduction of more schoolmates. The evolution that these characters had been trought is (in my opinion) one of the strong points of the overall story.
This includes the dynamic between characters, up until chapter 23 my thoughts on SR were of a fun manga, but no one of my favorites, something to read when there wasn't new chapters of One Piece (my Number 1).
It was the comical tale of the romantic one-sided triangle between Harima-Tenma-Karasuma, but nothing more, in those days I didn't think it could be more, but KJ proved me wrong.
In conclusion (mine, of course):
We (me, you, Swampstorm, whoever), read the same story, and only we can make our own interpretations. These inferings are made with our frame of mind (life experiences, education, desires, and a lot of intangibles factors).
It isn't mathematics, A + B not necessarily equals C because there are Xs, Ys, Zs and Psi's that we don't take in acount when we are doing the adition.
I never claimed to be impartial, it's the contrary, if there's a thing that upsets me is character bashing, and that was what made me write in the forums questioning the reasons of some people that (my interpretation) wrote against Tenma and Yakumo, and I pointed that.
So I took a party, and offered my arguments which can be wrong, but I don't think so and that's why I wrote them. My hypothesis hasn't been proven false by your reasoning which is affected by your understanding of the story, but you don't offer proof only more hypothesis. But I'm not "partisan" and neither will "take arms" to defend Flag (I still don't like the factions 'nicks). I think (hope) it will come to be without me attacking to and defending from perceived enemies.
If you have circunstancial evidence and I have circunstancial of the contrary...
Lets review some Locical Fallacies that I pointed to Swampstorm after he acussed me of making an Ad Hominem Attack
__________________Originally Posted by El Ultimo
"There are also things that exist without the need of a direct observation, but the effects that they produce reveal them". -Anonymous.One can only see what one observes, and one observes only things which are already in the mind. - Alphonse Bertillon
"Not only does God play dice, but he sometimes throws them where they cannot be seen." - Stephen Hawking.
"I'm Atheist" - Myself.