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  1. #41
    NeoSapien is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    I’m not denying that it’s significant that Eri went off the script; that tells us that things are going hectic, and something wrong is happening to the movie. I’m criticizing you for using that scene to determine that Eri decided on her own to change the script.

    You seem to be certain that Akira’s actions need to be absolutely logical. Why should they be?

    How about explaining how Eri has suddenly gained the courage to ask Harima if he loves someone else (in this case, Tenma) when she clearly said in the previous chapter that she was too afraid of asking Harima if he has someone already in his heart?

    Since Akira would be changing the script to help out Eri with Harima, the purpose of the change would be for Eri to be more honest with Harima, and it wouldn’t matter if the crew members got alarmed and stopped filming so long as Eri continued to talk with Harima. If she told the crew members about this change in the script, they might discover that Akira’s first priority is to help out Eri instead of the movie.
    But since Akira wrote the script specifically to help Eri, she could have easily written the script to include the Tenma vs. manuscript dilemma from the beginning. The crew members would not have understood the relevance of that.

    My grand unified theory of this is that Akira concocted the whole scenario specifically to give Eri the courage to ask. Note that in 213, Eri's comment, "I'm afraid to ask," appeared on a panel with Akira looking mysteriously back at Eri. This looked significant. And in this chapter, Eri DID ask, kind of. So Akira set up a situation in which Eri would be playing a villain and so be more uninhibited than usual and would be taking two things (Tenma and the manuscript) that Harima cared about. Though Akira didn't write anything down or directly tell Eri, she did intend Eri to ask that question, just as Akira set up the survival game to let Harima and Hanai settle their differences over Yakumo without directly intervening to force Harima to confess the truth.

    I suppose that Akira could have told Eri directly, but that doesn't fit her style; she certainly didn't directly tell Harima and Hanai what to do or personally reveal the truth about Harima and Yakumo's relationship to Hanai.
    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    How do you know that Eri is narrowing her eyes in response to Tenma? You’ve just arbitrarily decided that they’re narrowing in response to a tiny comment made by Akira despite Eri clearly shown to be thinking about the manuscript before, and after the flashback.
    The flashback does not mention the manuscript, but it does mention Tenma, and it immediately preceded the eye narrowing. The simplest explanation is that Eri narrowed her eyes in response to recalling Akira mentioning Tenma. Otherwise, the flashback was irrelevant and had no purpose being there.
    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    The flashback itself isn’t nearly as important when determining what Eri’s thinking compared to what we’re shown Eri to be thinking, since what happened in the flashback influenced what Eri is thinking about at the beginning of the chapter. And, Eri is thinking about the manuscript, not Tenma, making it unlikely that Eri’s actions are influenced by a suspicion that Harima likes Tenma.
    The flashback is critical to understanding what Eri was thinking because Eri was thinking about the flashback. Her head is shown on the right of the flashback panel; that indicates that it was happening inside her head.
    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    After the first reaction, it’s no longer obvious that Harima cares about the manuscript since he just chose Tenma. It’s not just Harima choosing Tenma, he goes further and tells Eri that she can “do whatever the hell [she wants]!” with the manuscript, not something he should be saying if the manuscript is important.
    That only shows that the manuscript is unimportant compared to Tenma. Harima definitely cared about losing the manuscript a few pages earlier, when he didn't understand the scenario.
    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    Tougou says "The hero threw away his work and chose the girl. So that's how it is! Love story!" It's very likely that Tougou thinks that they're just acting, and we know that Tougou has a tendency to be easily moved by theatrics.

    Tougou’s a bit of a moron, so him understanding would mean something, but his stupidity works against this claim by making it a high possibility that he's misunderstanding everything.
    On the contrary, Tougou understanding this just shows how obvious it is. It would make Eri look rather shabby if Tougou gets it and she doesn't. Tougou usually being wrong isn't an excuse (and he isn't usually wrong, just totally insane), because he's bang on the money here.

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    As you mention in your post, it would go against Eri’s character to react out of spite. That should clue you in to the reason that it’s unlikely that she’s acting in spite: it’s out of character for Eri. Last time Eri got “rejected” by Harima, she gave up on Harima and told the girl Harima “chose” to follow through with the relationship.
    I meant that it would go against the character of Eri-jou the evil queen who wants the plans. Generally the villain doesn't randomly tear up the secret plans she has stolen from the hero on a whim. In other words, Eri broke out of her role in the DVD by doing that.
    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    As for the shaving incident, Eri reacts to Harima saying that something is important to him (the beard) and then saying it’s not important to him (by shaving the beard), not to an indirect rejection. “You really like a close shave, eh?” If you compare the two events, the shaving scene supports the idea that Eri is reacting against Harima saying the manuscript isn’t important to him.
    Eri shaved Harima's head because she was annoyed that he wouldn't listen to her opinion on shaving but instantly agreed when Mikoto and Tenma told him the same thing. That was spite, and excepting exaggerated comedic violence, it was the very worst thing she has done to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    I know that Akira could have just written it into her play; that’s why I explained a possilbe reason for Akira not to tell them. You’re just refusing to acknowledge it and sidestepping my points and repeating yourself by saying that she has no reason to change the script.
    See above; if Akira had written it into her play in the first place, it wouldn't attract any attention as no one else would understand the relevance.
    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    Explain how Tougou did not actually get excited, and how it would be impossible for Akira not to anticipate this in order to invalidate my point.
    I'll concede this point since Akira probably intended Eri to say something like this regardless of whether Akira gave Eri a direct order.
    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    At least you’ve acknowledged it as evidence, which was the reason I made the list, and must know consider it a possibility that Akira might be changing the script.
    It's a possibility, but I consider it to be a less likely possibility. If Akira had directly instructed Eri on what to say, we should have been shown it instead of having to piece it together from tiny bits of circumstantial evidence that might not mean anything.
    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    Want to finish that sentence?
    Oops. Ah, the dangers of writing a very long reply in a nonlinear fashion. Whatever I intended to say there is probably unimportant now; I think it was something along the lines of, "Akira had written the play to help Eri in the first place, so she wouldn't have a need to revise her own work when she could have written it that way originally," which I've said above anyway.
    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    Indeed, I was. I don’t see you denying the implication, though, and by recognizing it as a motive applied directly at you, you fell for one trap. At least you weren’t foolish enough to fall for the bigger trap by going on a big rant about the bias of Flag fans influencing all their ideas.
    Playing this silly little game further, I'll point out that I never confirmed the implication either (and indeed, by calling attention to it, implicitly objected to it) and my recognizing it as a motive applied directly at me only demonstrates my perceptiveness, which certainly doesn't qualify walking into a trap. Meanwhile you have just confessed to trying to trap me into attacking your own bias, which isn't a very honest tactic.

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    Actually, I did provide some. You just ignored it without explaining why my rationale doesn’t work, and reiterated yourself.
    Well, hopefully it was answered above.

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    She had a backup plan, and I don’t recall her ever being embarrassed in the scene. By the way, there’s multiple definitions of infallible. Such as:

    infallible

    1. absolutely trustworthy or sure

    As far as we know, Akira has always been absolutely certain about everything.
    I used the word first, therefore my definition takes precedence. And my point was that Akira does make mistakes.
    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    Anyways, I brought up Akira favoring Eri as an advantage to Flag due to her success rate in plans; even when her initial plan doesn’t pan out, she has a backup plan and things always seems to turn out her way by the end. Chapter 156 is not an exception to that.
    But if Akira's plan was to have Eri gain the courage to ask Harima if he likes Tenma, then it has already succeeded. If Akira's plan was to get Harima to change his mind and see Eri differently, the dressing her as a supervillain and sending her to harass him and threaten both his work and Tenma... probably wasn't such a good idea.
    Last edited by NeoSapien; 02-26-2007 at 12:28 AM.

  2. #42
    Mini Jesus is offline Senior Member Regular
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    There's one simple thing you need to say NeoSapien that can't really be argued against to support your claim...Kobayashi is writing School Rumble for a younger audience, teens really. You don't want to confuse your audience or you'll lose them. Some of the things that you're saying Ultraness(I normally agree with you Ultraness but some of what you're arguing this time just seems to complicated and difficult to catch), wouldn't be able to be picked up by the target audience. What I saw throughout the last few pages of the chapter was a lot of implications that Eri was testing Harima's feelings for Tenma. Her remembering Akira telling her how important the manga is to him seems more to me as her figuring it way to gauge how much he really likes her since she already suspects it. No matter how many times I go through the chapter I don't see any point that might show that Akira gave Eri new lines at the last minute. As for where the courage she lacked last chapter came from, I'm not sure but I think it was just a spur of the moment kind of thing thus building up the courage to ask wasn't really there. In all honesty Ultraness, I think you're reading into everything in this chapter way too much. School Rumble isn't the type of manga your supposed to have to read multiple times to pick up on everything.

  3. #43
    reinard-fox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    Since they don’t convey emotion.

    Nice try at using my own words against me, but by doing so you're agreeing that Yakumo's expression is neutral, and I wasn’t saying anything about Yakumo's feelings behind the expression, so my words don’t apply to me in this instance.
    What I was trying to say is that all of us (including you and me of course) would see what we want to see - since Yakumo's expression is really very hard to read. I remember the two of us having this problem earlier, so it is no wonder it appeared again. No use to discuss this matter I guess.



    @ Mini_Jesus: Agreed.

  4. #44
    -Ajax- is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    What I was trying to say is that all of us (including you and me of course) would see what we want to see - since Yakumo's expression is really very hard to read. I remember the two of us having this problem earlier, so it is no wonder it appeared again. No use to discuss this matter I guess.
    Trying to read Yakumo's expressions is about as futile as this:



    As for Mini Jesus, it may seem complex to you, but to people seeing it from Ultra's perspective it doesn't seem complex at all. Everyone perceives things in different ways, some things in this chapter seemed a little vague opening the doors for people to perceive things in their own manner. I don't think KJ's target audience has anything to do with this. I can see good arguments coming from both sides in this case, i would have rather just let Ultra and Neo discuss this whole thing out but i guess its time to butt in.

  5. #45
    reinard-fox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Banana - lol

    Well, I don't think that he meant to interrupt the discussion - which is interesting - he just gave his own argument supporting Neo's idea.

    It can also be said that most of audience doesn't analyse chapter at all - or at least not that deep - so they won't care about if Eri changed the script on her own or just said the lines which Akira told her to. They just accepted the fact that Eri made her move, so they won't be troubled by all that who-triggered-this-all analysis.
    Last edited by reinard-fox; 02-26-2007 at 08:28 AM.

  6. #46
    -Ajax- is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    Banana - lol
    Imadori smash!


    [Caution: not actually Imadori's hand]


    Well, I don't think that he meant to interrupt the discussion - which is interesting - he just gave his own argument supporting Neo's idea.
    Yea i know, i was just hoping i could just sit back and see the results. xD


    It can also be said that most of audience doesn't analyse chapter at all - or at least not that deep - so they won't care about if Eri changed the script on her own or just said the lines which Akira told her to. They just accepted the fact that Eri made her move, so they won't be troubled by all that who-triggered-this-all analysis.
    Im just saying it doesn't take analysis to perceive the events in a manga differently, just like how anyone could say Yakumo's expression looked vicious or someone could argue it looked piteous. Personally i didn't know what to make of this chapter, im waiting for the next to maybe clear things up.

  7. #47
    reinard-fox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Ajax-
    Imadori smash!
    Imadori - the Wrath of Monster


    Quote Originally Posted by -Ajax-
    Im just saying it doesn't take analysis to perceive the events in a manga differently, just like how anyone could say Yakumo's expression looked vicious or someone could argue it looked piteous. Personally i didn't know what to make of this chapter, im waiting for the next to maybe clear things up.
    I'm not sure if the matter of this discussion will be ever cleared up or not, actually. But hope it will be.

  8. #48
    ultraness is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    My grand unified theory of this is that Akira concocted the whole scenario specifically to give Eri the courage to ask.
    This doesnít take into account Akiraís belief that Eri should be telling the truth of her feelings for Harima, which Akira also wants Eri to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Note that in 213, Eri's comment, "I'm afraid to ask," appeared on a panel with Akira looking mysteriously back at Eri. This looked significant.
    Obviously it was, since Akira abruptly changed her movie.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    And in this chapter, Eri DID ask, kind of. So Akira set up a situation in which Eri would be playing a villain and so be more uninhibited than usual and would be taking two things (Tenma and the manuscript) that Harima cared about.
    How does being put into a villain role make Eri more uninhibited?

    It doesnít change that Eriís fear of being rejected, which has been built up throughout the series, would have been overcome by her in one chapter without the development necessary for Eri to get over her biggest hurdle being shown.

    On the other hand, if Akira is the changing the script, or if Eri is changing the script in order to determine the importance of the manuscript without any suspicion that Harima likes Tenma, then Eri learning about Harimaís feelings would be accidental, and Eri would not be acting out of character.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Though Akira didn't write anything down or directly tell Eri, she did intend Eri to ask that question, just as Akira set up the survival game to let Harima and Hanai settle their differences over Yakumo without directly intervening to force Harima to confess the truth.
    Since you admit that itís Akiraís intent for Eri to learn whether or not Harima likes someone, why wouldnít Akira make sure that Eri asks it by writing it into the script originally? Akira would have no reason not to. since, according to your theory, Eri already suspects that Tenma likes Harima and Akira knows this.

    According to your theory, Akira was probing Eri for the truth about whether or not Eri suspects that Harima likes Tenma in the previous chapter, and Eri dodged the question. This would not have escaped Akiraís notice since we know from Chapter 171 that Eri being dishonest doesnít go unnoticed by her.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    I suppose that Akira could have told Eri directly, but that doesn't fit her style; she certainly didn't directly tell Harima and Hanai what to do or personally reveal the truth about Harima and Yakumo's relationship to Hanai.
    Eri learning indirectly that Harima likes Tenma from Akira will happen in all three scenarios, so thereís nothing conclusive about this point since Akira will be remaining in character for all of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    The flashback does not mention the manuscript, but it does mention Tenma, and it immediately preceded the eye narrowing. The simplest explanation is that Eri narrowed her eyes in response to recalling Akira mentioning Tenma. Otherwise, the flashback was irrelevant and had no purpose being there.
    A quote from your next paragraph:

    It's clear from Eri's actual thinking that the important thing mentioned in the flashback is the manuscript, and it follows that Eri would be reacting to that considering how she is actually shown to be thinking about the manuscript.

    Since Tenma isnít the important part of the flashback, thereís no reason for Eriís eyes to be narrowing in response to the unimportant part of the flashback. Making your explanation simple-minded, instead of a simple explanation for the facts.

    Again, youíre not explaining why Eri immediately goes on to talk about the manuscript in the panel after her eyes narrow. If Tenmaís name being mentioned is the important part of the flashback, which it would be if Tenma being the reason for Eriís eyes narrowing is the simplest explanation for the eyes narrowing, Eri would be talking about Tenma in the next sentence.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    The plan in the flashback involves getting a raw reaction from Harima, which is done by using something important to Harima. It's clear from Eri's actual thinking that the important thing mentioned in the flashback is the manuscript, and it follows that Eri would be reacting to that considering how she is actually shown to be thinking about the manuscript. The relevance of the flashback is to tell us that Akira had a plan to get a raw reaction from Harima using the manuscript with Tenma playing a minor role; it's still relevant even if Eri isn't reacting to Akira mentioning Tenma's name.
    This does not sound the least bit convincing that Akira mentioning Tenma is relevant since you agree that Eri thinks that the manuscript is more important than Tenma to Harima.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    The flashback is critical to understanding what Eri was thinking because Eri was thinking about the flashback. Her head is shown on the right of the flashback panel; that indicates that it was happening inside her head.
    Yes, and your paragraph above indicates that Eriís thoughts are centered on the manuscript instead of Tenma, making it unlikely that the importance of the flashback lies in the comment to Tenma, such as Iíve been saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    That only shows that the manuscript is unimportant compared to Tenma.
    Yes, and this contradicts what Akira told her. Now, after what Harima said, Eri has reason to doubt the manuscriptís importance, and suspect that Harima might like Tenma. Harimaís reaction in the next chapter will determine what Eri thinks about how he feels about the manuscript depending on whether or nor he gets furious.

    If he flips out, Harima will confirm that the manuscript is important to him to Eri, and Eri will go on a guilt trip for tearing it in two; if Harima doesnít get mad, Eri should be suspecting that Harima likes Tenma, and Eri will likely go on an angst trip.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Harima definitely cared about losing the manuscript a few pages earlier, when he didn't understand the scenario.
    Yes, and how does Eri just know that Harima flip-flopped to express his apparent love for Tenma?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    On the contrary, Tougou understanding this just shows how obvious it is. It would make Eri look rather shabby if Tougou gets it and she doesn't. Tougou usually being wrong isn't an excuse (and he isn't usually wrong, just totally insane), because he's bang on the money here.
    You missed the point of my quote, which is that Tougou doesnít really get what Harima just said. He calls what he witnesses ďa love story,Ē telling us that Tougou thinks that theyíre acting. Tougou does not understand what youíre claiming Eri just understood, voiding your claim that Eri understands because Tougou does.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    I meant that it would go against the character of Eri-jou the evil queen who wants the plans. Generally the villain doesn't randomly tear up the secret plans she has stolen from the hero on a whim. In other words, Eri broke out of her role in the DVD by doing that.
    Evil queens steal plans because theyíre important to the hero, not because they want them. ďIs [the manuscript] really that important to you? Then I donít want to return them.Ē Notice how Eri says nothing about wanting the plans?

    Itís in character for Eri the evil queen to destroy the plans, since villains actions strive to hurt heroes. In other words, Eri is maintaining the role of villain by destroying the plans.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Eri shaved Harima's head because she was annoyed that he wouldn't listen to her opinion on shaving but instantly agreed when Mikoto and Tenma told him the same thing. That was spite, and excepting exaggerated comedic violence, it was the very worst thing she has done to him.
    Think about why Eri shaved his head: After Eri accidentally trimmed Harimaís beard, Harima treated his beard being cut as a big deal and forced Eri into humiliating herself, then he suddenly shaved his beard, showing that the beard wasnít important to him and revealing himself to be acting like a total jerk to Eri a few pages before.

    Since you think itís alright for Yakumo to punish Eri after Eri chastised Tenma, in response to Tenma hurting Eriís feelings, by physically attacking Eri, you shouldnít have any qualms with Eri shaving Harimaís hair, which easily grew back, to express her anger at Harima for being an asshole to her.

    By the way, the shaving scene is also exaggerated comedic violence, since thereís no possible way for Eri to hold down someone like Harima long enough to cleanly shave his head as, in reality, Harima would have bolted the moment Eri made her first stroke of the razor.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    See above; if Akira had written it into her play in the first place, it wouldn't attract any attention as no one else would understand the relevance.
    According to your theory, Akira would know that Eri suspects Harima likes Tenma and itís her intent for Eri to ask the question, meaning thereíd be no reason for Akira not to make sure that Eri says the lines by changing them at the last second.

    One person whose unwanted attention it might attract is Tougou, since, as youíve said before, he has a crush on Tenma, making it unlikely that heíd approve of Tenma being used so by the script. Tougou is also the one person Akira would least want to disapprove of script changes, since heís the man controlling the crew.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    It's a possibility, but I consider it to be a less likely possibility. If Akira had directly instructed Eri on what to say, we should have been shown it instead of having to piece it together from tiny bits of circumstantial evidence that might not mean anything.
    Youíre using circumstantial evidence to argue that Eri altered the script to learn if Harima likes Tenma as well, instead of Eri being shown to be thinking thatís her objective. Youíre using a double-standard if the use of circumstantial evidence is the reason you consider itís unlikely Akira is playing a hand.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Oops. Ah, the dangers of writing a very long reply in a nonlinear fashion. Whatever I intended to say there is probably unimportant now; I think it was something along the lines of, "Akira had written the play to help Eri in the first place, so she wouldn't have a need to revise her own work when she could have written it that way originally," which I've said above anyway.
    It probably was something along the lines of that, since it seems like you prefer to repeat that instead of finding ways to actually counter the points I bring up to counter this idea.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Well, hopefully it was answered above.
    Nope, since you're still just repeating your one point without altering it to take into account the points I bring up to counter it, continuing to fail in properly invalidating my points.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    I used the word first, therefore my definition takes precedence. And my point was that Akira does make mistakes.
    Actually, I started the idea of Akira being infallible in having successful plans for everything. By immediately saying that Harima will save them after getting stuck in the floor shows that Akira wasnít worried about getting stuck there in the first place, meaning that she had already planned for the possibility.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    But if Akira's plan was to have Eri gain the courage to ask Harima if he likes Tenma, then it has already succeeded. If Akira's plan was to get Harima to change his mind and see Eri differently, the dressing her as a supervillain and sending her to harass him and threaten both his work and Tenma... probably wasn't such a good idea.
    Akira's plan may involve Eri learning the truth about Tenma, but it's main purpose would be to get Eri to tell her feelings to Harima, which Eri hasn't done yet, not to get Harima to change his mind. Eri would have to be the one to change his mind, and Akira would have to be counting on Eri revealing her feeling changing Harima's mind; Akira can't change Harima's opinion of Eri but she can influence Eri's actions, which can change Harimaís opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mini Jesus View Post
    There's one simple thing you need to say NeoSapien that can't really be argued against to support your claim...Kobayashi is writing School Rumble for a younger audience, teens really. You don't want to confuse your audience or you'll lose them.
    Look up red herring on Wikipedia, or some other source of information.

    Remember that many Onigiri fans are confused by Yakumoís decision in Chapter 206 since they believed that Yakumo had strong romantic feelings for Harima, and her decision in that chapter defied their belief. Authors donít try and make every plot development understood by every single one of their readers, and will actually try and confuse some or many of them by using red herrings.

    Now, think about times youíve been shocked by events in School Rumble, and think about why you were so surprised; chances are itís because you were manipulated into believing something was going to happen by red herrings, only it didnít. Now, add it up and think about how Kobayashi has surprised and confused his target audience before without losing the audience, and youíll realize that you didnít make a very good point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mini Jesus View Post
    Some of the things that you're saying Ultraness wouldn't be able to be picked up by the target audience.
    Like what?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mini Jesus View Post
    What I saw throughout the last few pages of the chapter was a lot of implications that Eri was testing Harima's feelings for Tenma.
    What parts of the first few pages made you think that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mini Jesus View Post
    Her remembering Akira telling her how important the manga is to him seems more to me as her figuring it way to gauge how much he really likes her since she already suspects it.
    No logic used to link ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mini Jesus View Post
    No matter how many times I go through the chapter I don't see any point that might show that Akira gave Eri new lines at the last minute.
    No explanation is used to explain why you canít see any possibility that Akira might be changing lines.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mini Jesus View Post
    As for where the courage she lacked last chapter came from, I'm not sure but I think it was just a spur of the moment kind of thing thus building up the courage to ask wasn't really there.
    Remember that fear of rejection is a critical part of Eri's character, and is the cause of almost every, possibly every single, action Eri makes around Harima. That's not going to change on a sudden whim on Eri's part without Kobayashi clearly showing Eri's character developing to accommodate her sudden change.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mini Jesus View Post
    In all honesty Ultraness, I think you're reading into everything in this chapter way too much. School Rumble isn't the type of manga your supposed to have to read multiple times to pick up on everything.
    Opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    What I was trying to say is that all of us (including you and me of course) would see what we want to see - since Yakumo's expression is really very hard to read. I remember the two of us having this problem earlier, so it is no wonder it appeared again. No use to discuss this matter I guess.
    What I said is that I wasnít attempting to read Yakumoís expression, so it didnít apply to me. In fact, I was using the lack of expression to build the ideas that the slap might be more ominous (due to the possibility of Yakumoís slap not being motivated by anger) and that authors frequently use characters whose emotions arenít revealed for villainous, or antagonist, roles.
    Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

  9. #49
    NeoSapien is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Ultraness: What the hell is this?!
    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    A quote from your next paragraph:

    It's clear from Eri's actual thinking that the important thing mentioned in the flashback is the manuscript, and it follows that Eri would be reacting to that considering how she is actually shown to be thinking about the manuscript.

    Since Tenma isnít the important part of the flashback, thereís no reason for Eriís eyes to be narrowing in response to the unimportant part of the flashback. Making your explanation simple-minded, instead of a simple explanation for the facts.

    Again, youíre not explaining why Eri immediately goes on to talk about the manuscript in the panel after her eyes narrow. If Tenmaís name being mentioned is the important part of the flashback, which it would be if Tenma being the reason for Eriís eyes narrowing is the simplest explanation for the eyes narrowing, Eri would be talking about Tenma in the next sentence.
    That's a nice quote from my "next paragraph"... except that it doesn't exist. Oh wait, silly me, here it is!
    Quote Originally Posted by Never actually posted by NeoSapien
    The plan in the flashback involves getting a raw reaction from Harima, which is done by using something important to Harima. It's clear from Eri's actual thinking that the important thing mentioned in the flashback is the manuscript, and it follows that Eri would be reacting to that considering how she is actually shown to be thinking about the manuscript. The relevance of the flashback is to tell us that Akira had a plan to get a raw reaction from Harima using the manuscript with Tenma playing a minor role; it's still relevant even if Eri isn't reacting to Akira mentioning Tenma's name.
    How strange. A quote from me that I never wrote in the first place. Now why would you make up a fake quote by me and use it in your own argument? I can only assume that you were completely stumped by my stunning logic but instead of conceding the point as an honest person would, you chose to put words in my mouth in the hopes that it would distract me. What an incredibly dishonest debating tactic. And then, you had the gall to call my own argument "simple-minded"! Do you have an explanation or at least an apology for this outright lie?

  10. #50
    -Ajax- is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Ultraness: What the hell is this?!


    That's a nice quote from my "next paragraph"... except that it doesn't exist. Oh wait, silly me, here it is!

    How strange. A quote from me that I never wrote in the first place. Now why would you make up a fake quote by me and use it in your own argument? I can only assume that you were completely stumped by my stunning logic but instead of conceding the point as an honest person would, you chose to put words in my mouth in the hopes that it would distract me. What an incredibly dishonest debating tactic. And then, you had the gall to call my own argument "simple-minded"! Do you have an explanation or at least an apology for this outright lie?
    Where the hell did that paragraph come from anyway?

 

 
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