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  1. #31
    reinard-fox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urameshi-sama
    Ojou looked scarier than normal in this chap with all the setup for the play. Anyways, I feel that this chap is just a setup that will force Ojou and Harima together in the long run. She'll probably find out about the manga now and be forced to help out of obligation. Seems like a perfect plan that Akira concieved.But the immediate effect would probably be having Eri pissed but hiding it and Harima upset.
    I doubt that Harima will be happy with Ojou helping him with manga. He wants to do it with Tenma, and only Tenma. Though this "drawing triangle" of Eri-Harima-Tenma might be quite funny. But also dangerous.

    Quote Originally Posted by Snah
    Question everyone... I curious whether if Eri has already known that Harima is making manga, and we can see in chapter 214 she held it... And what with that script change? the D team was obliterated by Eri herself! The person which D team want to save... And everyone knows who can beats that gorilla power of Lala except Ichijou?
    No, I don't think he knows about manga - in ch209 where she invited him to the oyster bar she asked what he was doing and assumed that he was studying - back then she stil knew nothing about manga. And right now she was concentrated on more important things too much and had no time to pay attention to his script.

    Quote Originally Posted by ratzuei
    As far as i think there are two possible options of what tenma is going to react:
    1. if she sees that this is a movie(like harima) she would think that this is on the script and dont care very much.
    2. if she dont see that this is a movie, she will only be puzzled. And probably only ask eri why did you do that.
    Look at her face at the last page - she doesn't look troubled at all. So i don't think that she'll think of this episode as of Harima shouting his true feelings. She probably thinks that it's all for the sake of movie.

  2. #32
    ultraness is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    It's not probable at all. That's not the sort of detail that would be left out of the manga. Akira may have expected that involving Harima and Tenma would lead to something happening, but Eri's improvisation was entirely her own decision.
    There’s no scene clearly showing Eri deciding to improvise on her own, either, which would also be the sort of detail left in the manga.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Note how her eye narrowed at the top of page 5, just after she remembered that Akira told her that Tenma would help get a raw reaction from Harima. That was definitely her own decision to test Harima's feelings.
    On the previous page Eri is shown to be thinking that the manuscript is really important to Harima, and right after her eyes narrow she says “Hmph. Is [the manuscript] really that important to you?” indicating that it’s the importance of the manuscript that’s making Eri’s eyes narrow here. Also, after Eri has “kidnapped” Tenma and the plans, her realization is “It’s just as Akira said...this thing is really important to [Harima]..!” If Eri suspected Harima likes Tenma and her goal was to “catch the conscience of the king,” then she should have said something along the lines of Tenma being important to him on page four, instead of commenting on the manuscript.

    Eri tearing up the manuscript isn’t necessarily Eri testing Harima’s feelings for Tenma, either. Eri could just be testing the importance of the manuscript to Harima, since Akira told her that it’s really important to Harima.

    My main problem with the idea that she’s testing Harima’s feelings for Tenma at the end is that Eri should look much more upset if she just realized that Harima likes Tenma. For example, if Kobayashi hid Eri’s eyes behind her hair while she’s ripping up the manuscript, I would find it hard to argue that Eri didn’t just realize the truth about Harima’s feelings.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Look at it this way. Why would KJ have Tougou and Fuyuki note that Eri had gone off the script if her lines were still "written" by Akira?
    No, which is why I said that Akira would have changed the script and not told them about it.

    Tougou says that the lines go against the script, and Fuyuki notes that it's unusual for Eri to "mess" up her lines. The purpose of this is to let us know that the lines have been changed, and that Eri doesn’t normally do this.

    This doesn’t prove that Eri changed the lines on her own because it sets her up as someone who rigidly follows the script, meaning that Eri would be acting according to Fuyuki’s outburst if she was following Akira’s “new script.”

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    You're invoking a conspiracy theory to escape from the obvious implication that Eri really did suspect that Harima loves Tenma, as I've been saying all along.
    Conspiracies are what Akira does. It's the whole reason she changed the movie in the first place, in the previous chapter.

    As for you, you’re making a conspiracy theory against Eri to escape from the implication that she actually didn’t suspect Harima’s feelings for Tenma, which is useful if you’re trying to justify Harima with any other girl in the manga.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    But Akira is not infallible, as proven in 156. Her reaction on the last panel shows that her plan may have backfired. Possibly. As you said, she is hard to read.
    Chapter 156 is a poor example for this point, since Akira remains infallible throughout the entire chapter, and ends up escaping from the weakened floor by the end.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    But it was unintentional. Harima still doesn't know about Eri's feelings. Eri, on the other hand, was fully aware that she was hurting Tenma's feelings.
    Judging by the massive amount of guilt Eri feels about the incident, as seen in Chapter 212, I highly doubt it was her intent to hurt Tenma, or “take away her smile.”. Just because Eri realized how much she was hurting Tenma in Chapter 211 doesn’t mean that she knew what she was doing was really hurting Tenma since Chapter 207.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    That's a good point. Maybe he'll restrain his anger because of that. I suppose that he would then demand that "Eri-jou" release Tenma as she promised.
    Maybe. I don’t know what Harima’s going to do.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    She might if she gets angry enough. But it is unlikely, admittedly.
    What’s she going to get that angry for? The previous two times she clearly got convinced that Harima likes someone else, she gave up on him. Eri getting this angry would also make her deciding that her friendship with Tenma is more important to her than Harima entirely pointless, voiding the development she went through after having her own feud with Tenma.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    It would be most exciting for me.
    That’s fine. Keep in mind that what’s most exciting for you is not always the most exciting for other people before you make claims about what is the most exciting as though it’s the most exciting for everybody.

    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    How are Yakumo's eyes neutral and empty?
    Since they don’t convey emotion.

    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    Anyways, Trying to read Yakumo’s facial expressions isn’t usually a good idea, though; since her expressions are so neutral, whatever expression you see is bound to be influenced by what you want her facial expression to be. This goes for both of us, of course.
    Nice try at using my own words against me, but by doing so you're agreeing that Yakumo's expression is neutral, and I wasn’t saying anything about Yakumo's feelings behind the expression, so my words don’t apply to me in this instance.

    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    Destroying one's property is, actually, a crime. Just as hurting someone with slap.
    I didn’t say it isn’t a crime. I said that attacking people is a worse crime, or more villainous.
    Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

  3. #33
    OMGItsTehSARS is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    I don't think this chapter is as epic, "game-ending", and plot progressing as people say it is right now. I mean Eri was going to find out anyways sooner or later, though I admit that was rather quick.

    And as far as improvisation goes, it's more likely that she was just following Akira's quick modification to the script, as ultraness was implying. I don't think she can ask that question on her own ("what will you choose" girl or script),even though not direct, it's along of the lines of saying who does harima like, and she said last chapter she's afraid to ask. So what I'm saying is that since this is all a movie, she wouldn't feel so hesistant if she was just following the script or the lines Akira could have told her to say for that scene to get that reaction or reply out of him. In that sense, Akira achieved her purpose.

    With the topic of villianry about, I have a feeling KJ is actually reading these and other forums getting ideas. I mean chapter 212 thread totally reaked of villian talk, and then next chapter comes and u see Eri protrayed as a villianous character in the play, and acting rather well as one. Though that can't be verified, its feel good when our discussion might be affecting KJ's progression of the story.
    Last edited by OMGItsTehSARS; 02-25-2007 at 08:50 AM.

  4. #34
    NeoSapien is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    There’s no scene clearly showing Eri deciding to improvise on her own, either, which would also be the sort of detail left in the manga.
    Yes there is! That's the whole point of Fuyuki and Tougou noticing that Eri went off the script. If Akira was behind this, she would have just written those lines in the script. It would be completely pointless for Akira to write lines in the script and then secretly tell Eri to change them.

    On the previous page Eri is shown to be thinking that the manuscript is really important to Harima, and right after her eyes narrow she says “Hmph. Is [the manuscript] really that important to you?” indicating that it’s the importance of the manuscript that’s making Eri’s eyes narrow here. Also, after Eri has “kidnapped” Tenma and the plans, her realization is “It’s just as Akira said...this thing is really important to [Harima]..!” If Eri suspected Harima likes Tenma and her goal was to “catch the conscience of the king,” then she should have said something along the lines of Tenma being important to him on page four, instead of commenting on the manuscript.
    She commented on the manuscript being important to Harima and then stuck Harima in a dilemma to choose between the manuscript and Tenma. It's obvious that Eri was using the manuscript as a benchmark to test Tenma's importance to Harima.
    Eri tearing up the manuscript isn’t necessarily Eri testing Harima’s feelings for Tenma, either. Eri could just be testing the importance of the manuscript to Harima, since Akira told her that it’s really important to Harima.
    Yeah, and I suppose that Tenma was just testing the importance of curry to Karasuma when she asked him which he preferred, her or curry. Eri has little reason to care about the manuscript's importance to Harima, and she would have to be totally sadistic to destroy something that Harima cared about just to test its importance to him.
    My main problem with the idea that she’s testing Harima’s feelings for Tenma at the end is that Eri should look much more upset if she just realized that Harima likes Tenma. For example, if Kobayashi hid Eri’s eyes behind her hair while she’s ripping up the manuscript, I would find it hard to argue that Eri didn’t just realize the truth about Harima’s feelings.
    Maybe Eri is still in too much shock. Maybe she isn't very surprised at all. Maybe she's hiding her feelings because she's in front of Harima and on camera. There are countless possibilities. But I do think that the way Eri just tore the manuscript was pretty cold-blooded and out of character for her, indicating that she has just been shocked to a degree.

    No, which is why I said that Akira would have changed the script and not told them about it.

    Tougou says that the lines go against the script, and Fuyuki notes that it's unusual for Eri to "mess" up her lines. The purpose of this is to let us know that the lines have been changed, and that Eri doesn’t normally do this.

    This doesn’t prove that Eri changed the lines on her own because it sets her up as someone who rigidly follows the script, meaning that Eri would be acting according to Fuyuki’s outburst if she was following Akira’s “new script.”


    Conspiracies are what Akira does. It's the whole reason she changed the movie in the first place, in the previous chapter.
    You're missing the point. Akira had no reason to secretly tell Eri to say different lines. Akira could have just written them in the script; that way, the camera crew would not be needlessly alarmed and Eri would say them anyway since she's (usually) the type of person to stick to the script. Assuming that Akira told Eri to change the lines is a needless complication that has zero evidence and is therefore less likely than the much simpler interpretation that Eri decided to change the lines on her own.
    As for you, you’re making a conspiracy theory against Eri to escape from the implication that she actually didn’t suspect Harima’s feelings for Tenma, which is useful if you’re trying to justify Harima with any other girl in the manga.
    Motives are irrelevant here; the point is that my theory is simpler and fits the facts better.
    Chapter 156 is a poor example for this point, since Akira remains infallible throughout the entire chapter, and ends up escaping from the weakened floor by the end.
    Akira was most definitely not infallible throughout the entire chapter; notably, when she got out of the penguin suit and went to take a picture of the others, she fell through the floor and wound up trapped again. That was a very embarrassing failure. Akira only escapes because of Harima's intervention, which would have happened anyway.

  5. #35
    Kyto1984 is offline Senior Member Regular
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    A possible prediction for the coming chapters (not necessarily the next chapter).

    Tenma, Eri, and Yakumo will end up helping Harima finish the manga.

    Why Tenma?
    She's his current partner.

    Why Eri?
    Eri still doesn't realize what she tore up. She's gonna find out, it's unavoidable at this point, and when she does, she's gonna want to help him repair the situation. Harima of course will object, but Tenma, the Queen of Misunderstandings, will force him to work with Oujo. Tenma's reasons will either be so Eri can apologies, or to push their relationship together, I'm not sure at this point.

    Why Yakumo?
    Harima has a lot of work to do now in a short amount of time, and Yakumo has a great deal of experience. He will initially ask for both sisters to help him. Plus it will be more interesting if all three factions face off at this point, though just Tenma and Eri working together is probably most probable.

  6. #36
    rikem is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyto1984 View Post
    Tenma, Eri, and Yakumo will end up helping Harima finish the manga.
    o rly

    you don't realize what you're saying. tenma, eri, yakumo and Harima in the same room. it's like a rumble war. i can see the fog war xD.damn be realistic... well~~ at least be kind to Harima. don't put him in the love hell. i would not be the one who place each around the table...

    but anyways, it's a pretty rumble idea. +0.5 in rumble foresight for you



  7. #37
    ultraness is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Yes there is! That's the whole point of Fuyuki and Tougou noticing that Eri went off the script.
    You're overemphasizing the importance of Fuyuki and Tougou noticing that Eri went off the script as evidence for Eri changing the lines since you can’t conclude who changed the script from them being surprised, making it not a scene clearly showing Eri deciding on her own to change the script.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    It would be completely pointless for Akira to write lines in the script and then secretly tell Eri to change them.
    If Akira is changing the lines in this scene, she’s changing them in order to get Eri to tell the truth to Harima and/or get Eri to learn the truth about Harima’s feelings. Since her objective would be a private matter between Eri and Akira, there wouldn’t be a need to let others know about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    She commented on the manuscript being important to Harima and then stuck Harima in a dilemma to choose between the manuscript and Tenma. It's obvious that Eri was using the manuscript as a benchmark to test Tenma's importance to Harima.
    No, it isn’t obvious that Eri is using the manuscript to personally judge Tenma since there’s no scene showing her thinking about Tenma before the line change to indicate that she herself is changing the lines to test Tenma’s importance to Harima.

    All her thoughts before changing the lines focus on the manuscript, and she should be thinking about Tenma if she’s changing the lines to figure out the significance of Tenma to Harima is her real goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Yeah, and I suppose that Tenma was just testing the importance of curry to Karasuma when she asked him which he preferred, her or curry.
    Comparison example from a scene that has an entirely different context and doesn't compare well to the event in Chapter 214.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Eri has little reason to care about the manuscript's importance to Harima, and she would have to be totally sadistic to destroy something that Harima cared about just to test its importance to him.
    Eri does have a solid reason to care about the manuscript’s importance after Harima chose Tenma instead of the manuscript, and put Akira’s claim about the manuscript’s importance to Harima in doubt.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Maybe Eri is still in too much shock.
    Eri doesn't look shocked.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Maybe she isn't very surprised at all.
    If she isn't surprised it would mean she expected Harima’s response , and she'd have no reason to do anything to the manuscript.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Maybe she's hiding her feelings because she's in front of Harima and on camera.
    Unsupported claim.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    But I do think that the way Eri just tore the manuscript was pretty cold-blooded and out of character for her, indicating that she has just been shocked to a degree.
    Opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    You're missing the point. Akira had no reason to secretly tell Eri to say different lines.
    The way the lines are changed make it so that the truth of the feelings for Eri and Harima come to a head, and we know from the previous chapter that Akira wants Eri to be honest with Harima.

    You’re ignoring every time Akira tells her friends to be honest to their love interest, as well as the chapters where Akira shows concern for her friends, if you think that Akira has no reason to change the script into something that will put Eri into a situation to be more honest with Harima.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Akira could have just written them in the script; that way, the camera crew would not be needlessly alarmed and Eri would say them anyway since she's (usually) the type of person to stick to the script.
    The crew wasn’t alarmed in any way, though. In particular, Tougou, apparently the second in charge of the movie and the one shown to be controlling the crew, actually gets excited about the new changes. Akira seems to have a good understanding of every character in School Rumble, so it would be in character for her to know that Tougou would allow changes to the script.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Assuming that Akira told Eri to change the lines is a needless complication that has zero evidence and is therefore less likely than the much simpler interpretation that Eri decided to change the lines on her own.
    Zero evidence? If there’s no evidence, you’ll easily be able to refute every single one of these points which I was kind enough to put in a neat little list for you.

    Evidence Supporting Akira Changing Lines in the Movie

    - Akira is shown clutching a script before she tells Eri of a plan to get a raw reaction out of Harima
    - Akira clearly does know the significance of both the manuscript and Tenma to Harima, and the changed lines take into account both the importance of Tenma and Harima’s manuscript.
    - Akira wants Eri to be more honest about her feelings to Harima; the changes in the script put Eri in a situation to be more honest with Harima
    - At some point during the secret conversation between Eri and Akira, Akira tells Eri about the manuscript’s importance. This dialogue isn’t shown, indicating that more was said between the two than was shown, making it possible for more to have been said between the two.
    - Akira is a secretive person, meaning it would be in character for her not to tell anyone else about a sudden change in screenplay
    - Akira is the one that came up with the idea of the movie, is the one that changed the plot of the movie on a whim, and seems to have a high degree of control over the movie.
    - Eri trusts Akira, more so than any of her friends, meaning she would listen to Akira if Akira told her to change the script.
    - Throughout the filming of the movie, Eri had never messed up her lines and had followed Akira’s script exactly, making it out of character for Eri to suddenly go off on her own.

    Despite this list I just made, I’ll state that I’m not convinced that Akira changed the lines instead of Eri. I think it’s very possible Eri changed the lines on her own; I just think she’d change the script for a different reason than the one brought up by NeoSapien.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Motives are irrelevant here; the point is that my theory is simpler and fits the facts better.
    I don’t remember mentioning anything about your motives; I just said that you’re making a conspiracy theory of your own to escape from the implication that Eri didn’t suspect Harima likes Tenma. I commented on the usefulness of proving your theory if you want to justify Harima with a girl that isn't Eri, but I didn't say that was your motive. Surely, you're above such a petty reason to attack Eri's integrity.

    I agree that your theory is simpler, but I disagree about it being the best account of all the facts, whether or not Akira or Eri is the one that changed the screenplay. Alas, if only Occam’s Razor could solve everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Akira was most definitely not infallible throughout the entire chapter; notably, when she got out of the penguin suit and went to take a picture of the others, she fell through the floor and wound up trapped again. That was a very embarrassing failure. Akira only escapes because of Harima's intervention, which would have happened anyway.
    Apparently, you didn't notice how Akira didn’t miss a beat and was entirely confident that Harima would come and save the day after she falls through the floor, maintaining herself as infallible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kyto1984 View Post
    A possible prediction for the coming chapters (not necessarily the next chapter).

    Tenma, Eri, and Yakumo will end up helping Harima finish the manga.

    Why Tenma?
    She's his current partner.

    Why Eri?
    Eri still doesn't realize what she tore up. She's gonna find out, it's unavoidable at this point, and when she does, she's gonna want to help him repair the situation. Harima of course will object, but Tenma, the Queen of Misunderstandings, will force him to work with Oujo. Tenma's reasons will either be so Eri can apologies, or to push their relationship together, I'm not sure at this point.

    Why Yakumo?
    Harima has a lot of work to do now in a short amount of time, and Yakumo has a great deal of experience. He will initially ask for both sisters to help him. Plus it will be more interesting if all three factions face off at this point, though just Tenma and Eri working together is probably most probable.
    The problem with your theory is that it doesn’t explain how they’d all agree to work together. All three have plausible reasons to help Harima individually, but that doesn’t mean they’d want to get together and have a manga party.
    Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

  8. #38
    NeoSapien is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    You're overemphasizing the importance of Fuyuki and Tougou noticing that Eri went off the script as evidence for Eri changing the lines since you can’t conclude who changed the script from them being surprised, making it not a scene clearly showing Eri deciding on her own to change the script.
    But it's supposed to be significant that Eri went off the script; that's why we have Fuyuki and Tougou noticing it. If Akira was the one to change the script, there is no significance, since Akira is the one who wrote the script in the first place. It would be a completely pointless moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    If Akira is changing the lines in this scene, she’s changing them in order to get Eri to tell the truth to Harima and/or get Eri to learn the truth about Harima’s feelings. Since her objective would be a private matter between Eri and Akira, there wouldn’t be a need to let others know about it.
    But the others would find out anyway when Eri speaks the changed lines. It would be much better if Akira had simply changed the written script and told the others so that they wouldn't be surprised - or better yet, if she had written it this way in the first place.

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    No, it isn’t obvious that Eri is using the manuscript to personally judge Tenma since there’s no scene showing her thinking about Tenma before the line change to indicate that she herself is changing the lines to test Tenma’s importance to Harima.

    All her thoughts before changing the lines focus on the manuscript, and she should be thinking about Tenma if she’s changing the lines to figure out the significance of Tenma to Harima is her real goal.
    In the flashback, Eri remembered that Akira said that Tenma would help get a raw reaction from Harima; in the next panel, Eri's eye narrows and she then gives Harima his choice: the manuscript or Tenma? The flashback didn't even mention the manuscript, just Tenma.
    Eri does have a solid reason to care about the manuscript’s importance after Harima chose Tenma instead of the manuscript, and put Akira’s claim about the manuscript’s importance to Harima in doubt.
    No she doesn't. It was already obvious that Harima cared about the manuscript from his first reaction and his demands for Eri to return it. Harima choosing Tenma over the script was a clear signal that he cares about Tenma even more, so clear that even Tougou understood it. Tougou, I tell you! If Tougou got it right, then Eri should have as well.

    If she isn't surprised it would mean she expected Harima’s response, and she'd have no reason to do anything to the manuscript.
    Except spite. It was an indirect rejection. She's done a similar thing before, namely shaving Harima's head. Tearing the manuscript was totally unnecessary, especially for the evil queen Eri-jou who wanted to steal the designs, not destroy them. Eri could have just run off with the manuscript as Harima had already surrendered it to her; this would have been more in character for Eri-jou and allowed her to examine it further by herself, not to mention it wouldn't have gratuitously annoyed Harima.

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    The way the lines are changed make it so that the truth of the feelings for Eri and Harima come to a head, and we know from the previous chapter that Akira wants Eri to be honest with Harima.

    You’re ignoring every time Akira tells her friends to be honest to their love interest, as well as the chapters where Akira shows concern for her friends, if you think that Akira has no reason to change the script into something that will put Eri into a situation to be more honest with Harima.
    You're still missing the point. My point is that Akira could have just written the script that way in the first place, instead of writing it another way and then suddenly changing it at the last minute and telling only Eri. She had no reason to do that.

    The crew wasn’t alarmed in any way, though. In particular, Tougou, apparently the second in charge of the movie and the one shown to be controlling the crew, actually gets excited about the new changes. Akira seems to have a good understanding of every character in School Rumble, so it would be in character for her to know that Tougou would allow changes to the script.
    Perhaps "alarmed" is too strong a word, but Tougou had the 'surprise' flash near his head and Fuyuki was concerned and considered turning off the camera. A good writer-producer-whatever Akira is doesn't randomly disrupt her own production.

    Zero evidence? If there’s no evidence, you’ll easily be able to refute every single one of these points which I was kind enough to put in a neat little list for you.

    Evidence Supporting Akira Changing Lines in the Movie

    - Akira is shown clutching a script before she tells Eri of a plan to get a raw reaction out of Harima
    - Akira clearly does know the significance of both the manuscript and Tenma to Harima, and the changed lines take into account both the importance of Tenma and Harima’s manuscript.
    - Akira wants Eri to be more honest about her feelings to Harima; the changes in the script put Eri in a situation to be more honest with Harima
    - At some point during the secret conversation between Eri and Akira, Akira tells Eri about the manuscript’s importance. This dialogue isn’t shown, indicating that more was said between the two than was shown, making it possible for more to have been said between the two.
    - Akira is a secretive person, meaning it would be in character for her not to tell anyone else about a sudden change in screenplay
    - Akira is the one that came up with the idea of the movie, is the one that changed the plot of the movie on a whim, and seems to have a high degree of control over the movie.
    - Eri trusts Akira, more so than any of her friends, meaning she would listen to Akira if Akira told her to change the script.
    - Throughout the filming of the movie, Eri had never messed up her lines and had followed Akira’s script exactly, making it out of character for Eri to suddenly go off on her own.
    None of the above is strong enough evidence to explain why Akira would change her own script and tell no one but Eri. Akira already revised the script once into "The Girl who had Everything in the World" which include
    Despite this list I just made, I’ll state that I’m not convinced that Akira changed the lines instead of Eri. I think it’s very possible Eri changed the lines on her own; I just think she’d change the script for a different reason than the one brought up by NeoSapien.
    Well, that's good.
    I don’t remember mentioning anything about your motives; I just said that you’re making a conspiracy theory of your own to escape from the implication that Eri didn’t suspect Harima likes Tenma. I commented on the usefulness of proving your theory if you want to justify Harima with a girl that isn't Eri, but I didn't say that was your motive. Surely, you're above such a petty reason to attack Eri's integrity.
    By commenting on the usefulness of proving my theory, you were implying a motive in the same passive-aggressive manner as your last sentence in the quote above.
    I agree that your theory is simpler, but I disagree about it being the best account of all the facts, whether or not Akira or Eri is the one that changed the screenplay. Alas, if only Occam’s Razor could solve everything.
    Your theory does not have any direct support for Akira changing her own script and does not even give her a clear motive to do so. Thus it is not the best account of all the facts.
    Apparently, you didn't notice how Akira didn’t miss a beat and was entirely confident that Harima would come and save the day after she falls through the floor, maintaining herself as infallible.
    If Akira was truly infallible, she wouldn't have embarrassed herself in the first place. Infallible means being incapable of making an error.

  9. #39
    Kyto1984 is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    The problem with your theory is that it doesn’t explain how they’d all agree to work together. All three have plausible reasons to help Harima individually, but that doesn’t mean they’d want to get together and have a manga party.
    They don't have to want to do it all together, I just think that they will.

    But okay, here's how all this goes down in my head.

    Harima has his deadline coming up real quick, and now thanks to Eri he has to copy all his previous work to boot. Despite that Harima wants to spend time alone with Tenma, he realizes that the two of them alone won't be able to get it done, so he asks Yakumo to help as well. Even if the little sister is pushing for Tenma/Harima pairing, Yakumo would realize that he truly needs her help.

    Meanwhile, Eri has discovered that Harima was writing a manga, and now because of her he has to drill down to the bone to get it done. She does the whole Devil Eri and Angel Eri fighting on her shoulder bit again, and ultimately decides that she needs to apologize and help him get back on track.

    Eri calls Tenma and asks if she can help her and Harima with the manga. Without consulting with Harima, Tenma tells her to come over and they can all work together. After she hangs up the phone, Tenma notifies Harima the Eri will be coming as well. He objects, but immediately backs down when Tenma "persuades" him to do it.

    With both Tenma and Harima agreeing to Eri's help, Yakumo has no real grounds for objection. In all probablity, working with Eri would be the last thing Yakumo wants, but because she doesn't want to disappoint either Tenma or Harima, she remains silents and continues to work. After a few minutes, Eri comes in ready to help. It's just then that she realizes that Yakumo is there as well. Now, what happens after that, god only knows.

  10. #40
    ultraness is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    But it's supposed to be significant that Eri went off the script; that's why we have Fuyuki and Tougou noticing it.
    I’m not denying that it’s significant that Eri went off the script; that tells us that things are going hectic, and something wrong is happening to the movie. I’m criticizing you for using that scene to determine that Eri decided on her own to change the script.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    If Akira was the one to change the script, there is no significance, since Akira is the one who wrote the script in the first place. It would be a completely pointless moment.
    You seem to be certain that Akira’s actions need to be absolutely logical. Why should they be?

    How about explaining how Eri has suddenly gained the courage to ask Harima if he loves someone else (in this case, Tenma) when she clearly said in the previous chapter that she was too afraid of asking Harima if he has someone already in his heart?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    But the others would find out anyway when Eri speaks the changed lines. It would be much better if Akira had simply changed the written script and told the others so that they wouldn't be surprised - or better yet, if she had written it this way in the first place.
    Since Akira would be changing the script to help out Eri with Harima, the purpose of the change would be for Eri to be more honest with Harima, and it wouldn’t matter if the crew members got alarmed and stopped filming so long as Eri continued to talk with Harima. If she told the crew members about this change in the script, they might discover that Akira’s first priority is to help out Eri instead of the movie.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    In the flashback, Eri remembered that Akira said that Tenma would help get a raw reaction from Harima; in the next panel, Eri's eye narrows and she then gives Harima his choice: the manuscript or Tenma? The flashback didn't even mention the manuscript, just Tenma.
    How do you know that Eri is narrowing her eyes in response to Tenma? You’ve just arbitrarily decided that they’re narrowing in response to a tiny comment made by Akira despite Eri clearly shown to be thinking about the manuscript before, and after the flashback.

    The flashback itself isn’t nearly as important when determining what Eri’s thinking compared to what we’re shown Eri to be thinking, since what happened in the flashback influenced what Eri is thinking about at the beginning of the chapter. And, Eri is thinking about the manuscript, not Tenma, making it unlikely that Eri’s actions are influenced by a suspicion that Harima likes Tenma.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    No she doesn't. It was already obvious that Harima cared about the manuscript from his first reaction and his demands for Eri to return it. Harima choosing Tenma over the script was a clear signal that he cares about Tenma even more
    After the first reaction, it’s no longer obvious that Harima cares about the manuscript since he just chose Tenma. It’s not just Harima choosing Tenma, he goes further and tells Eri that she can “do whatever the hell [she wants]!” with the manuscript, not something he should be saying if the manuscript is important.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    so clear that even Tougou understood it. Tougou, I tell you! If Tougou got it right, then Eri should have as well.
    Tougou says "The hero threw away his work and chose the girl. So that's how it is! Love story!" It's very likely that Tougou thinks that they're just acting, and we know that Tougou has a tendency to be easily moved by theatrics.

    Tougou’s a bit of a moron, so him understanding would mean something, but his stupidity works against this claim by making it a high possibility that he's misunderstanding everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Except spite. It was an indirect rejection. She's done a similar thing before, namely shaving Harima's head. Tearing the manuscript was totally unnecessary, especially for the evil queen Eri-jou who wanted to steal the designs, not destroy them. Eri could have just run off with the manuscript as Harima had already surrendered it to her; this would have been more in character for Eri-jou and allowed her to examine it further by herself, not to mention it wouldn't have gratuitously annoyed Harima.
    As you mention in your post, it would go against Eri’s character to react out of spite. That should clue you in to the reason that it’s unlikely that she’s acting in spite: it’s out of character for Eri. Last time Eri got “rejected” by Harima, she gave up on Harima and told the girl Harima “chose” to follow through with the relationship.

    As for the shaving incident, Eri reacts to Harima saying that something is important to him (the beard) and then saying it’s not important to him (by shaving the beard), not to an indirect rejection. “You really like a close shave, eh?” If you compare the two events, the shaving scene supports the idea that Eri is reacting against Harima saying the manuscript isn’t important to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    You're still missing the point. My point is that Akira could have just written the script that way in the first place, instead of writing it another way and then suddenly changing it at the last minute and telling only Eri. She had no reason to do that.
    I know that Akira could have just written it into her play; that’s why I explained a possilbe reason for Akira not to tell them. You’re just refusing to acknowledge it and sidestepping my points and repeating yourself by saying that she has no reason to change the script.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Perhaps "alarmed" is too strong a word, but Tougou had the 'surprise' flash near his head and Fuyuki was concerned and considered turning off the camera. A good writer-producer-whatever Akira is doesn't randomly disrupt her own production.
    Explain how Tougou did not actually get excited, and how it would be impossible for Akira not to anticipate this in order to invalidate my point.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    None of the above is strong enough evidence to explain why Akira would change her own script and tell no one but Eri. Akira already revised the script once into "The Girl who had Everything in the World" which include
    At least you’ve acknowledged it as evidence, which was the reason I made the list, and must know consider it a possibility that Akira might be changing the script.

    Want to finish that sentence?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    By commenting on the usefulness of proving my theory, you were implying a motive in the same passive-aggressive manner as your last sentence in the quote above.
    Indeed, I was. I don’t see you denying the implication, though, and by recognizing it as a motive applied directly at you, you fell for one trap. At least you weren’t foolish enough to fall for the bigger trap by going on a big rant about the bias of Flag fans influencing all their ideas.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    Your theory does not have any direct support for Akira changing her own script and does not even give her a clear motive to do so. Thus it is not the best account of all the facts.
    Actually, I did provide some. You just ignored it without explaining why my rationale doesn’t work, and reiterated yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoSapien View Post
    If Akira was truly infallible, she wouldn't have embarrassed herself in the first
    place. Infallible means being incapable of making an error.
    She had a backup plan, and I don’t recall her ever being embarrassed in the scene. By the way, there’s multiple definitions of infallible. Such as:

    infallible

    1. absolutely trustworthy or sure

    As far as we know, Akira has always been absolutely certain about everything.

    Anyways, I brought up Akira favoring Eri as an advantage to Flag due to her success rate in plans; even when her initial plan doesn’t pan out, she has a backup plan and things always seems to turn out her way by the end. Chapter 156 is not an exception to that.
    Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

 

 
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