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  1. #41
    ultraness is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Nice job holding up the fort while I was at work, Ajax. I quite liked your post right before this one. I don't need to reply to as many comments, as a result.

    Quote Originally Posted by YuYo View Post
    And that is why we are glad to know this is a manga where her act in staying outside was meant to show her willingness to go at any lenght to reconcile with her friend.
    Indeed, though I donít see how this makes Tenmaís action any less stupid.

    Quote Originally Posted by YuYo View Post
    Which would be relevant to this situation if she knew that in Eris eyes she had interfered with her relationship.
    I wasn't applying this information to the situation. I just want to prove that Tenma would be capable of understanding Eri's plight should she ever learn of it later in the plot. Keep in mind the context in which I make my comments; in this case, I was responding to Koloxís claim that it would be unnecessary for Tenma to learn of Eriís dilemma due to Tenma being incapable of understanding it.

    Quote Originally Posted by YuYo View Post
    BTW hasn't.Eri and Harima are not in a relationship of any kind and even Eri knows it.That's why she is so desperately trying to change the situation.
    Nice of you to point this out. I had no idea that this was the case.

    Quote Originally Posted by YuYo View Post
    But she didn't.She was surprised and shocked,but in no way angry at her
    I know. I just mentioned what I thought would happen in this chapter beforehand. Instead, Tenma is shown to get merely upset with Yakumo slapping Eri, putting the seeds of a future dispute between the sisters into place. Whether Kobayashi goes anywhere with it remains to be seen, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by YuYo View Post
    And you are falling in your own reasoning when claiming this.You said that since there is no evidence proving that Yakumo slapped Eri out of anger for Eris treatment of her sister she is a villain,but when there is no evidence what so ever that Eri was about to apologise she suddenly was obviously trying to do so.
    I never said that Yakumo is a villain, only that she's beginning to be portrayed as one since Kobayashi isn't showing us her perspective. Whose perspective the author shows us is critical in ascertaining who's "good" and who's "bad.Ē Good and evil are just illusions that authors manipulate.

    As for Eri, I never said that she was going to apologize, just that she was on the verge of saying something important; be it an apology or venom-laced words. Youíre putting words into my mouth to justify your belief that Iím wrong. I donít mind if you disagree with me or believe that IĎm wrong, but at least pick something I actually said to disagree with.

    Quote Originally Posted by YuYo View Post
    Why is that?
    If every character made the smart, mature decision, then most or all of the conflict in School Rumble would be avoided. Stories with little or no conflict hardly qualify as stories. Character development also hinges on characters being immature, or flawed; if they never act immature and start off as mature characters, they have no room to grow and mature.

    Quote Originally Posted by YuYo View Post
    Her expression is angry.Which from we may deduce that she was angry at Eri for something she said or did.More than likely she was angry at her because of Tenma(but that's just my reasoning)
    Obviously, we know that Yakumo is angry, but we donít know why sheís angry. Kobayashi shows us that Yakumo knows that Eri spent the previous night with Harima, and we know that Yakumo wants Harima to get together with Tenma. So, the question is, did Yakumo slap Eri because of she was courting with Harima, or just because she was mean to Tenma? Yakumoís thoughts are completely absent through the event, which I find makes any theories inconclusive for the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by YuYo View Post
    I see no reason why this would be detrimental for her future on the plot.
    Yakumo acts extremely cold after slapping Eri; showing no remorse for her actions. Itís the kind of chilling behaviour Iíd expect to see in villains. Hence, Yakumo appearing like a villain now being a precursor to her acting, or seeming to, in the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox View Post
    None, but she knew she was doing the bad thing and she didn't felt it was right in chapter 211 - it's pretty simple to guess she isn't helping Tenma or herself that way. I wouldn't be happy afterwards saying something like that to my friend (even if it was true - and in this situation, it wasn't, so it's even more painful).
    Of course we can consider that Eri is stupid and she can't take responsibility for her actions and she isn't responsible for anything. But I believe she isn't an idiot and that she knew what she was doing - that' why I can't sympathize with her.
    You admit that thereís nothing to indicate that Eri knows that she was going to suffer. As a result, all your words following your admission are meaningless.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox View Post
    Yakumo shut Eri's mouth before she said something she could regret for the rest of her life. One more word from Eri and it could be much worse. Although you can do it without slapping ....
    We donít know what Eri was going to say, so we donít know if this was true. Letís pretend Eri was going to unleash friendship-destroying words at Tenma. How does Yakumo slapping Eri really help Eri out in that scenario? It wouldnít have changed Eriís opinion of Tenma, so it would do nothing to eliminate the possibility of Eri expressing her hatred to Tenma at a later date.

    Suppose Eri was going to apologize to Tenma; in this scenario, Yakumo clearly prevented, or delayed, a reconciliation between the two.

    In neither scenario is the slap helpful, if you think about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrapeJuice View Post
    Finally i will try to defend Yakumo.

    Even when Yakumo's slap was often referred as "only justified in her own view but not in reader's". However her slap, other than either "defending her sister" or "unreasonable agressive", actually just extending Eri and Tenma broken relationship for exactly one more day. However in the same time it actually:
    -strengthen Eri & Tenma 's relationship much more than if everything is resolved since chapter 211
    -give Tenma a chance to make Yakumo realise that she capable to protect herself
    -give Eri a bit more in her character development.
    -give Yakumo a LOTS more chance to develop, (break her current passive, let her express feelings instead of keep hiding it... Oginiri raise )
    -bring the old confliction to light, help to resolve it openly
    -more oppoturnities for KJ to develop the story, which make SR more enjoyable for us ^^
    None of this actually justifies Yakumo for slapping Eri. Itís just a list of benefits the story gains from Yakumoís violent outburst.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox View Post
    You don't need to foreseen it - you feel your doing something wrong and you if your really feel bad about it now, it's normal you will feel about it afterwards.
    Nice of you to find a new reason to not sympathize after your previous reason didn't hold up. You're trying too hard not sympathize with Eri.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox View Post
    Might this be too farfetched, but there was a book called "Crime and Punishment" written by Fyodor Mikhailovich Dostoevsky, where main hero killed the landlady because he couldn't pay a rent. He knew he was doing something bad, he hesistated to kill her but eventually he did that. Afterwards, feelings of guilt hurt him so much he reported himself to police and went to jail. Here we have a little less dramatic situation....
    That sounds like an interesting book, but I donít see how it really relates to School Rumble. Also, I donít see how murder is less dramatic than two girls having boy troubles.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox View Post
    It wasn't about if she redeemed herself or not, but about her feeling bad or not. She knew what she was doing, she should be conscious of the afterwards and I don't take argument as "but see how she suffers now" as her for wanting to reconcile. It's actions which speaks for person, not just thoughts. At least Tenma understand that.
    Eri is feeling bad about it right now; thatís one of the reasons sheís suffering.

    Quote Originally Posted by YuYo View Post
    Did you even read the parts that I quoted or just the answers? Reading this post I see so many strange answers that have no relevance to my post what so ever
    I know how you feel, YuYo. I felt the same way after your replies to my post. Itís just so bizarre how people donít instantly understand what Iím trying to convey to them.

    Quote Originally Posted by YuYo View Post
    Ultraness and Swampstorm have made comments as to why Yakumo slapped her.Making claims that she acted out of jealosy and so forth without any base to these claims.And when ppl said that Yakumo acted out of anger for Eri talking down on Tenma.Ultra answered that there is no evidence to back their claim.
    Swampstorm posted quite the essay explaining why he thinks Yakumo slapped Eri, with reasons why he made that claim. I suggest you read it sometime:

    http://www.wannabefansubs.info/tenma...c=1214&st=2060

    As for me, when I said that there is no evidence to confirm why Yakumo slapped Eri, I meant that we canít be sure why Yakumo got angry.

    Quote Originally Posted by YuYo View Post
    Then later on he seems to make a claim that when Yakumo slapped Eri she was just about to say something "important" rather then just continuing to denounce Tenma.
    But since there is no evidence pointing either way he contradicts himself.
    Eri denouncing Tenma would be important. How wouldnít that be significant?

    Quote Originally Posted by YuYo View Post
    I have to again ask did you really read my post or someone elses?He said that if they weren't acting like kids there wouldn't be much of a story. And miraculously there has been guite a lot of fantastic storytelling going on without them being immature.
    What makes you think that the characters in School Rumble donít frequently act immature? They act immature on a regular basis, and itís their characters developing as they become more mature that makes the series so good, in my opinion.

    Quote Originally Posted by YuYo View Post
    Then Eri seemed to take the slap as a deserved one so I don't know will KJ even return to it again.To become an antagonist she would need a lot of char developement.
    Antagonists donít need character development. Their role is to cause character development by antagonizing protagonists. If they start getting character development, they stop being antagonists and become protagonists.

    Quote Originally Posted by YuYo View Post
    as it is now she wouldn't cause any kind of growth in Eris character.
    Yakumo already has caused Eri to develop by indirectly getting Tenma into the drawing room with Harima. To be Eriís antagonist, all Yakumo has to do is oppose Flag.
    Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

  2. #42
    ultraness is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    A problem posting my message caused a double post. Could a moderator please delete this?
    Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

  3. #43
    liekiamhiung is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by -Ajax- View Post
    We the reader can see she is about to say something quite important, could be good, could be bad. To Yakumo (who doesn't know her thoughts at this moment) it seems she is about to keep going with the reprimands. Then Yakumo interrupts everything with the slap.
    I think only by the interuption of Yakumo will Eri become aware of Tenma's position in her heart or should i say that slap makes Eri be able to decide. Yakumo's slap makes Eri's hesitation gone than. This has been confirmed by how Eri act after the slap. Although her slap is reckless but in the end it bring good ends.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ajax- View Post
    I doubt Tenma was the only reason, Eri has a conscience. Tenma did indeed push it to the surface faster though, id just like her not to almost die doing it.
    Neither do i. But Tenma has no choice, she has fallen to "umbrella" in the last chapter . i mean Tenma already desperate and she is stupid enough to wait and patient enough to wait. She wait outside of Eri's house cause she thinks Eri still mad at her so maybe Eri needs some times. So i agree with Kolox that she is so stable at that time, cause infact she has no idea what stupid things has she done to madden Eri ? But she still try so hard to apologize.
    Oh yeah, about why Tenma didn't try to find out first then apologize. I think she already tried so, but infact no clues were given from her POV. I believe she has think about a lot of things before.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ajax- View Post
    You act as if Eri getting mad is a routine, we only know that she gets truly mad about anything in relation to a girl getting close to Harima. Normally Eri is a decent person, Mikoto, Akira, and Tenma wouldn't befriend her otherwise. They just don't know the full story behind her feelings for Harima yet.
    Remember Mikoto's cases ( Eri got so pissed because Mikoto Critiques her ) and Akira knew about the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ajax- View Post
    and the fact is that Tenma is in the same situation with Karasuma, you argued that Ultraness' analogy was irrelevant because Eri isn't in a relationship with Harima. Well the same could be said with Tenma and Karasuma, if you meant something else, then try to convey the right idea next time.
    Okay, so both Eri and Tenma are at fault. But that alone will not justify what has Eri's done to Tenma.

    Quote Originally Posted by -Ajax- View Post
    Posted what i think Eri's choices are in regards to the slap on Anime Suki.
    1.Pretend it never happened (reset?)
    2.Accept it and move on
    3.Revenge
    4.Talk about it face to face with Yakumo
    Probably the 4th option.

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    Indeed, though I don’t see how this makes Tenma’s action any less stupid.
    Stupid but worth it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    I wasn't applying this information to the situation. I just want to prove that Tenma would be capable of understanding Eri's plight should she ever learn of it later in the plot. Keep in mind the context in which I make my comments; in this case, I was responding to Kolox’s claim that it would be unnecessary for Tenma to learn of Eri’s dilemma due to Tenma being incapable of understanding it.
    And Eri knew Tenma is being incapable to understanding it so must Eri wait for Tenma to realized it by herself then ? Tenma might be able to understand it if Eri tells Tenma herself.

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    I know. I just mentioned what I thought would happen in this chapter beforehand. Instead, Tenma is shown to get merely upset with Yakumo slapping Eri, putting the seeds of a future dispute between the sisters into place. Whether Kobayashi goes anywhere with it remains to be seen, though.
    Why that u guys hate Yakumo so much ? don't answer i will make a new topic about that soon after my Exams over........

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    Obviously, we know that Yakumo is angry, but we don’t know why she’s angry. Kobayashi shows us that Yakumo knows that Eri spent the previous night with Harima, and we know that Yakumo wants Harima to get together with Tenma. So, the question is, did Yakumo slap Eri because of she was courting with Harima, or just because she was mean to Tenma? Yakumo’s thoughts are completely absent through the event, which I find makes any theories inconclusive for the moment.
    Like i said before Yakumo's first reaction toward the fact is "CONCERNING HER SISTER NOT WITH SAWACHIKA SENPAI LAST NIGHT". So i guess that shows it

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    Yakumo acts extremely cold after slapping Eri; showing no remorse for her actions. It’s the kind of chilling behaviour I’d expect to see in villains. Hence, Yakumo appearing like a villain now being a precursor to her acting, or seeming to, in the future.
    Oh my, now Yakumo's a villain just because a slap. Nice. No remorse because she is mad with Eri and thinks what she did is right. That means Yakumo don't thinks she is quilty for protecting her sister.

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    We don’t know what Eri was going to say, so we don’t know if this was true. Let’s pretend Eri was going to unleash friendship-destroying words at Tenma. How does Yakumo slapping Eri really help Eri out in that scenario? It wouldn’t have changed Eri’s opinion of Tenma, so it would do nothing to eliminate the possibility of Eri expressing her hatred to Tenma at a later date.

    Suppose Eri was going to apologize to Tenma; in this scenario, Yakumo clearly prevented, or delayed, a reconciliation between the two.

    In neither scenario is the slap helpful, if you think about it.
    The reality is the slap already eliminate Eri's hatred toward Tenma. Look carefully to the Eri's reaction, she say something like " Even if the pain in my cheek dissappear, we could not go back to that time ". So the slap kinda a determining factor for Eri to decide what's the important things to her.

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    Nice of you to find a new reason to not sympathize after your previous reason didn't hold up. You're trying too hard not sympathize with Eri.
    i don't see any sympathize to Tenma action from you ? although it is a stupid action.

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    That sounds like an interesting book, but I don’t see how it really relates to School Rumble. Also, I don’t see how murder is less dramatic than two girls having boy troubles.
    Well, i think Kolox started to used the method you used in explaining ur post. Like the Lawrence stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    Eri is feeling bad about it right now; that’s one of the reasons she’s suffering.
    That means even Eri herself knew that Tenma is innocent.

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    Swampstorm posted quite the essay explaining why he thinks Yakumo slapped Eri, with reasons why he made that claim. I suggest you read it sometime:

    http://www.wannabefansubs.info/tenma...c=1214&st=2060

    As for me, when I said that there is no evidence to confirm why Yakumo slapped Eri, I meant that we can’t be sure why Yakumo got angry.
    But in that essay, it was already concluded that Yakumo only feeling quilty toward what she did in the past to Tenma ( when they're 5-8 years old ). But for Yakumo at that age to understand quilt until now is awesome, besides look at her character. It's different from when she was 5-8 years old and when she is around 16 years old ( or 15 ? )

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    Eri denouncing Tenma would be important. How wouldn’t that be significant?
    Eri talks in her mind and Yakumo would not know about it, if she start with something bad how could people would know that something good is coming out of her mouth?

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    What makes you think that the characters in School Rumble don’t frequently act immature? They act immature on a regular basis, and it’s their characters developing as they become more mature that makes the series so good, in my opinion.
    AGREED.

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    Antagonists don’t need character development. Their role is to cause character development by antagonizing protagonists. If they start getting character development, they stop being antagonists and become protagonists.
    Well, because all char in SR seems to got a character development, that means there is no Antagonist right

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    Yakumo already has caused Eri to develop by indirectly getting Tenma into the drawing room with Harima. To be Eri’s antagonist, all Yakumo has to do is oppose Flag.
    And for Eri's to become Yakumo's antagonist, all she has to do is oppose onigiri and odou, where that is already been done. So who is the antagonist.

    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    The best way to support Kolox would be to use your brain and take a stab at my ideas, if they're worth opposing, instead of being his cheerleader.
    But i wanted to become his cheerleader >.<
    i am kind of tired to this circling debate, ur guys have ur own solid opinion that not even a nuclear bomb could melt it. In the previous chap, ur guys all wants Yakumo x Eri and say that the slap is unworthy, false, etc.... But in reality what happens, see for ur self. But if u wanted to debate over it then let's go
    Last edited by liekiamhiung; 02-12-2007 at 12:11 AM.
    LONG LIVE HIME-SAMA. MY LIFE FOR RUMBLANDIA!


  4. #44
    ultraness is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by liekiamhiung View Post
    Okay, so both Eri and Tenma are at fault. But that alone will not justify what has Eri's done to Tenma.
    The comparison between Eri and Tenma isn't meant to justify any of their actions, only to prove that Tenma could empathize with Eri in the future if Tenma ever learned Eriís side of the story.

    Quote Originally Posted by liekiamhiung View Post
    Why that u guys hate Yakumo so much ? don't answer i will make a new topic about that soon after my Exams over........
    I can't speak for the others, but I don't hate Yakumo. I just think that she's boring... or was boring, since sheís become more interesting in recent chapters.

    Quote Originally Posted by liekiamhiung View Post
    Like i said before Yakumo's first reaction toward the fact is "CONCERNING HER SISTER NOT WITH SAWACHIKA SENPAI LAST NIGHT". So i guess that shows it
    Where is the scene in the manga showing Yakumo reacting to this, or thinking about her reasons for slapping Eri? You can voice your opinion in bold capital letters, but itís not going to convince me without any evidence backing it up.

    Quote Originally Posted by liekiamhiung View Post
    Oh my, now Yakumo's a villain just because a slap. Nice.
    The slap doesnít make her a villain. People seem to have trouble comprehending what Iím trying to say. The way Yakumo is presented after giving the slap makes her appear like a villain, not that it makes her one.

    What authors choose to show us in stories is very important. Recently, Eri acted coldly to Tenma and it seemed like her character took a dark turn, but Kobayashi chose to show us Eriís thoughts and it becomes clear that Eri is still a good person that wants to do the right thing. On the other hand, Yakumo slaps Eri but Kobayashi hasnít chosen to show us any of her reasoning for resorting to violence at this point in the manga

    Basically, which characters an author chooses to focus on tells us which one is ďgoodĒ and which one is ďbad.Ē In general, the ďgoodĒ character is the one the author focuses on most, the protagonist, and the one not focused on is the ďvillain,Ē for the purposes of the story. The author shows us the ďgoodĒ characterís perspective so that we sympathize with them, and neglects the ďvillain,Ē or antagonistís thoughts to draw sympathy away from them.

    To apply this to School Rumble, itís Yakumo thatís being pushed into background, and, as a result, beginning to assume the position of ďvillain,Ē or antagonist at the moment.

    Quote Originally Posted by liekiamhiung View Post
    No remorse because she is mad with Eri and thinks what she did is right. That means Yakumo don't thinks she is quilty for protecting her sister.
    How do you know Yakumo does so to protect Tenma? Thereís nothing showing us what Yakumo is thinking. Itís not like Tenma needs protection; she shows herself to be quite capable at self-defence in Volume Two.

    All we know is that Yakumo believes sheís justified, in spite of Tenma criticizing her for slapping Eri.

    Quote Originally Posted by liekiamhiung View Post
    The reality is the slap already eliminate Eri's hatred toward Tenma. Look carefully to the Eri's reaction, she say something like " Even if the pain in my cheek dissappear, we could not go back to that time ". So the slap kinda a determining factor for Eri to decide what's the important things to her.
    If you pay attention to Eriís thoughts before the slap, itís pretty clear that she isnít mad at Tenma any longer; Tenma waiting outside is what eliminated resentment towards Tenma from Eriís mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by liekiamhiung View Post
    I don't see any sympathize to Tenma action from you ? although it is a stupid action.
    Tenma being so desperate to resolve her conflict with Eri that she became senseless enough to say outside is what makes her action sympathetic. Earlier, I was just demeaning the act with the purpose of refuting Koloxís claim that Tenma is the mature.

    Quote Originally Posted by liekiamhiung View Post
    Well, i think Kolox started to used the method you used in explaining ur post. Like the Lawrence stuff.
    I didnít use Kohlbergís moral development theory as an explanation in my post. I just made an offhand reference to him.

    Quote Originally Posted by liekiamhiung View Post
    That means even Eri herself knew that Tenma is innocent.
    ďTenma didnít do anything wrong! Sheís been thinking of me the whole time!Ē Yes, Eri does know think that Tenmaís innocent.

    Quote Originally Posted by liekiamhiung View Post
    But in that essay, it was already concluded that Yakumo only feeling quilty toward what she did in the past to Tenma ( when they're 5-8 years old ). But for Yakumo at that age to understand quilt until now is awesome, besides look at her character. It's different from when she was 5-8 years old and when she is around 16 years old ( or 15 ? )
    The conclusion was a product of inductions based on Yakumoís behaviour, which contradicts Yuyoís claim that Swampstorm made conclusions based on nothing.

    Quote Originally Posted by liekiamhiung View Post
    Eri talks in her mind and Yakumo would not know about it, if she start with something bad how could people would know that something good is coming out of her mouth?
    Iím not saying that Yakumo should know what Eriís thinking. Iím saying that the slap prevented Eri from saying something significant, be it good or bad.

    Quote Originally Posted by liekiamhiung View Post
    Well, because all char in SR seems to got a character development, that means there is no Antagonist right
    No. Characters can be both protagonists and antagonists, depending on the situation. For example, Eri antagonizes Tenma, as a protagonist, back in volume one by sitting next to Karasuma on a bus, and Tenma antagonizes Eri, then the protagonist, in recent chapters by asking Harima to a shrimp party.

    Quote Originally Posted by liekiamhiung View Post
    And for Eri's to become Yakumo's antagonist, all she has to do is oppose onigiri and odou, where that is already been done. So who is the antagonist.
    Yakumo is the antagonist, since the story is focusing on Eri, and itís Yakumo whoís caused Eri to develop in the past.

    Quote Originally Posted by liekiamhiung View Post
    What do u means with they're worth opposing and using my brains?
    Just because i disagree with u don't mean u can mock me like that ?!
    i am tired to this circling debate, ur guys have ur own solid opinion that not even a nuclear bomb could melt it. In the previous chap, ur guys all wants Yakumo x Eri and say that the slap is unworthy, false, etc.... But in reality what happens, see for ur self. But if u wanted to debate over it then let's go
    Mocking people usually makes them make big posts...like the one you made.
    Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

  5. #45
    OMGItsTehSARS is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    I think it's time for Jin to actually focus on Yakumo right now, cuz there seems to be a sorta of "steady state" and moment of piece for Eri/Tenma after all, a stopping point if you will. And by focus on Yakumo, I mean we get to read her thoughts more so than others. I really believe that in order if we want more significant story progression , you can't keep focusing on 1 side (character), but focus on the POV of the other side. (And on the topic of pro/ant/agonists, they both aren't all that different in definition, in my opinion, it's all relational and based on POV that we're given, does that exemplify KJ's POV also?). It would seem we can call Eri the "protagonist" becauase of all the ish leading up to this point (since the beginning), but if KJ chooses to switch gears a little, and start development and POV with let's say Yakumo or Tenma (Yakumo needs the most attention atm, because she's leaving us hanging here), and if tehre's enough significant development, the climax would be a giant explosion of suspense, and hopefully by then then issue of protagonists and antagonists would be less obvious because both have their goals/needs/wants (I'm sure they do), and with the relational nature of readers attributing to this elegance.


    I don't think KJ would end SR and leave us hanging with our theories.
    Last edited by OMGItsTehSARS; 02-12-2007 at 02:57 AM.

  6. #46
    ultraness is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by OMGItsTehSARS View Post
    I think it's time for Jin to actually focus on Yakumo right now, cuz there seems to be a sorta of "steady state" and moment of piece for Eri/Tenma after all, a stopping point if you will. And by focus on Yakumo, I mean we get to read her thoughts more so than others.
    Kobayashi should focus on Yakumo if it isn't his intent to make her an antagonist. However, he seems to like writing about Eri more than anyone else at the moment, and there's been numerous opportunities to focus more on Yakumo before that he's passed up.

    Quote Originally Posted by OMGItsTehSARS View Post
    I really believe that in order if we want more significant story progression , you can't keep focusing on 1 side (character), but focus on the POV of the other side.
    Most stories just focus on one side, or character. It's about suspense. If we're kept in the dark for the most part about one character, we can't be sure how they'll act which serves to make us anxious and create suspense. It also manipulates us to support a specific side, and makes it easier to empathize with the side we're shown.

    For stories to significantly progress, it's necessary that characters act; we don't need to know everyone's reasons behind their actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by OMGItsTehSARS View Post
    I don't think KJ would end SR and leave us hanging with our theories.
    Possibly. I'm not sure what he wants to do.
    Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

  7. #47
    pizza_blade is offline Member Newbie
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    If Yakumo is a villain, judging by the recent chapters in the manga, then Eri must be a Yakuza......@_@

    You can see how silly the statement above? Well, it is as silly as the statement stating Yakumo is in reality..., dum, dum, dum, dum..., a Villain In The Making!

    @_@ @_@ @_@

    ......

    Well, at least unlike some of its fans, Eri actually manage to get a grip on herself on 212, which I like. Good for her for not snapping back, because if she does, then all respect I have for her would be lost. It is quite nice that she finally come to her senses about the friendship between her and Tenma.

    Really, the amount of Yakumo-Hate in the air is truly outstanding. It escapes me why she needs to be called a villain but hey!, probably it would be best if it escapes me anyway, because any kind of reason trying to justify that kind of statement bound to make my head filled with severe headaches, anyway.

    @_@

    Cheers.

  8. #48
    ultraness is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by pizza_blade View Post
    If Yakumo is a villain, judging by the recent chapters in the manga, then Eri must be a Yakuza......@_@

    You can see how silly the statement above? Well, it is as silly as the statement stating Yakumo is in reality..., dum, dum, dum, dum..., a Villain In The Making!

    @_@ @_@ @_@

    ......

    Well, at least unlike some of its fans, Eri actually manage to get a grip on herself on 212, which I like. Good for her for not snapping back, because if she does, then all respect I have for her would be lost. It is quite nice that she finally come to her senses about the friendship between her and Tenma.

    Really, the amount of Yakumo-Hate in the air is truly outstanding. It escapes me why she needs to be called a villain but hey!, probably it would be best if it escapes me anyway, because any kind of reason trying to justify that kind of statement bound to make my head filled with severe headaches, anyway.

    @_@

    Cheers.
    First two definitions of villain:

    1. A wicked or evil person; a scoundrel.

    2. A dramatic or fictional character who is typically at odds with the hero.

    I'm saying that Kobayashi appears to be making Yakumo a villain according to the second definition, not the first one.
    Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

  9. #49
    -Ajax- is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Remember Mikoto's cases ( Eri got so pissed because Mikoto Critiques her ) and Akira knew about the story.
    Yea i included that, but once again, Eri isn't like that all the time, not even close. Akira knows part of it, but she likes to mess around with people it seems, but even Akira seemed to know it was better to leave them alone.


    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    First two definitions of villain:

    1. A wicked or evil person; a scoundrel.

    2. A dramatic or fictional character who is typically at odds with the hero.

    I'm saying that Kobayashi appears to be making Yakumo a villain according to the second definition, not the first one.
    Also, it doesn't mean its a permanent title.

  10. #50
    ratzuei is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    I dont think that JK has made at any point of this manga a villian or antagonist (at least permanently)

    first of all why do you consider that yakumo has anything to do with this thing of the Flag, as far i can remember she haven&#180;t stated anything about Flag also she doesnt know that eri was angry at tenma because of harima(if she knew then she would have been angrier).

    Second i think the slap was more like a form of yakumo saying "stop being so foolish". It was just a slap, it doesnt mean that yakumo is eri 's enemy. Also why in the first place do you consider eri the hero

    Third the one that i think its going to be the main antagonist in flag is going to be eri&#180;s fiancee.

    Fourth, i really liked how this chapter turn up, if you stop to think for a moment this is a school comedy manga, so its basically about relationships and everything that has to do with them. I also dont know why any of you have transformed yakumo into a villian whithout a solid basis.

    I also want to ask to all of you to stop thinking ahead with soap opera theories(i will stop too) because you&#180;re going too far and some of them are way too stupid.

 

 
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