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  1. #141
    Azure Sky is offline Senior Member Regular
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    HOLY CRAP! i cant wait til 212. i just read it and the drama is just too amazing

  2. #142
    Lith17 is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    Everyone seems to think that Yakumo's slap was inspired by Eri's relationship with Harima. I doubt that. I believe that Harima had nothing to do with her actions.

    Think about it. Yakumo seems to have a zen-like authority to her that zones out all wrong. That means she's not inspired by anything selfish, just selflessness. At least that's true about her sister. Yakumo would never have her personal feeling interrupt with her sister's well being.

    Further more, Yakumo was probably worried half to death. That was her main concern. The fact that Harima spent the night with Eri had nothing to do with any hurt feeling because all she could think about was her lost sister. If my sister was the only person I had, no one else mattered until I knew she was okay; even my love life.

    It was Eri's condescending behavior that deserved her the slap. Tenma could have died in the snow for Eri's sake and her reaction was to lecture her. She should have gotten her inside first, gave her cocoa, then lecture. Harima had nothing to do with the slap.

  3. #143
    reinard-fox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lith17
    Everyone seems to think that Yakumo's slap was inspired by Eri's relationship with Harima
    Everyone was saying completely opposite, actually.

  4. #144
    ultraness is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lith17 View Post
    Everyone seems to think that Yakumo's slap was inspired by Eri's relationship with Harima. I doubt that. I believe that Harima had nothing to do with her actions.
    Doubt it all you want. The truth is, we won’t know for certain why Yakumo slapped Eri until Kobayashi gives us more insight into Yakumo. Nonetheless, Kobayashi showed us a few chapters ago that Yakumo is dead set against Flag while supporting Oudou, and showed us before the slap that Yakumo knows that Eri spent the night with Harima. This makes Yakumo’s slap suspect and strongly raises doubt that Harima has nothing to do with it.

    Also, like reinard-fox said, most people here think that Yakumo slapped Eri out of concern for her sister...not that I’m one of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lith17 View Post
    Think about it. Yakumo seems to have a zen-like authority to her that zones out all wrong. That means she's not inspired by anything selfish, just selflessness. At least that's true about her sister.
    Yakumo has a Zen-like authority most of the time, but she consistently loses her control of it whenever she perceives an insult against her sister. Swampstorm wrote an essay about Yakumo’s motive behind her actions at the Animesuki that I agree with. I’ll just post a link for it, though, instead of regurgitating it:

    http://forums.animesuki.com/showthre...=21715&page=72

    Quote Originally Posted by Lith17 View Post
    Yakumo would never have her personal feeling interrupt with her sister's well being.
    By slapping Eri in the midst of reconciling with Tenma, Yakumo has let her personal feelings interrupt with her sister’s well being. We already know that having a feud with Eri has caused Tenma to become extremely upset, and Tenma’s recent actions, despite being totally moronic, show how desperately Tenma wants things to get better between her and Eri.

    Yakumo knows how badly Tenma wants to reconcile, and seeing Tenma covered in snow shows Yakumo how not reconciling with Eri is now physically hurting Tenma. Therefore, Yakumo should know that reconciling with Eri will improve Tenma’s well being. However, Eri’s words to Tenma offend Yakumo’s personal feelings such that Yakumo first priority becomes punishing Eri, above her sister’s well being. If Yakumo could control her personal feelings regarding Tenma, she would have been able to restrain herself from slapping Eri and interrupting Eri’s attempt at reconciliation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lith17 View Post
    Further more, Yakumo was probably worried half to death. That was her main concern. The fact that Harima spent the night with Eri had nothing to do with any hurt feeling because all she could think about was her lost sister.
    If Yakumo's main concern was Tenma, Yakumo should immediately gotten Tenma to a warm place as soon as possible and given her some cocoa. Instead, she lets Eri berate Tenma for a while, and when she does stop it she does so in order to punish Eri, not to help her sister; putting her main priorities in doubt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lith17 View Post
    If my sister was the only person I had, no one else mattered until I knew she was okay; even my love life.
    If this was true, Eri’s poor attempt at reconciling with Tenma wouldn’t have bothered Yakumo since no one but Tenma would have mattered to Yakumo until she was certain Tenma was all right.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lith17 View Post
    It was Eri's condescending behavior that deserved her the slap. Tenma could have died in the snow for Eri's sake and her reaction was to lecture her. She should have gotten her inside first, gave her cocoa, then lecture. Harima had nothing to do with the slap.
    I didn’t see Yakumo rushing to get Tenma inside, either, so it’s not like she’s any better than Eri in that regard. Besides, Tenma was the one being lectured so she should have been the one to slap to Eri if it was bothering her, not Yakumo. Yakumo being the one to deliver the punishment to Eri is my main gripe with the situation, more so than Eri getting slapped.
    Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

  5. #145
    -Ajax- is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Oh god Swampstorm typed up a storm over there... well, *cracks knuckles* time to read.

  6. #146
    liekiamhiung is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    If Yakumo's main concern was Tenma, Yakumo should immediately gotten Tenma to a warm place as soon as possible and given her some cocoa. Instead, she lets Eri berate Tenma for a while, and when she does stop it she does so in order to punish Eri, not to help her sister; putting her main priorities in doubt.

    I didn’t see Yakumo rushing to get Tenma inside, either, so it’s not like she’s any better than Eri in that regard. Besides, Tenma was the one being lectured so she should have been the one to slap to Eri if it was bothering her, not Yakumo. Yakumo being the one to deliver the punishment to Eri is my main gripe with the situation, more so than Eri getting slapped.
    Well, i do think we need to thinks of the story line before saying things like this. And saying things like Eri didn't take Tenma inside ( i was thinking like this too before but then i rethink ). Eri came right after Yakumo just found out her sister . and after Eri came, suddenly Tenma burst out to hug her. So in this condition both of them will be unable to bring Tenma to nearby shelter. Yakumo said nee-san when Tenma is going to hug Eri. What should Yakumo do ? Drag her by force or what. Eri herself was in a surprise state. So maybe Eri didn't come to think to take Tenma inside.

    BTW : that link u made is awesome . not that i agree with all Swampstorm said. just wondering, now. Is he a psychologist or something ?. Well, trying to analyze a person personality in a manga ( that was determined by the author and can be changed by the author as he wants ) is difficult and to me is a little useless. Because in the end, The author has the right to make what kind of character he/she wants to make .
    LONG LIVE HIME-SAMA. MY LIFE FOR RUMBLANDIA!


  7. #147
    thehunterattack is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    By slapping Eri in the midst of reconciling with Tenma, Yakumo has let her personal feelings interrupt with her sister’s well being. We already know that having a feud with Eri has caused Tenma to become extremely upset, and Tenma’s recent actions, despite being totally moronic, show how desperately Tenma wants things to get better between her and Eri.

    Yakumo knows how badly Tenma wants to reconcile, and seeing Tenma covered in snow shows Yakumo how not reconciling with Eri is now physically hurting Tenma. Therefore, Yakumo should know that reconciling with Eri will improve Tenma’s well being. However, Eri’s words to Tenma offend Yakumo’s personal feelings such that Yakumo first priority becomes punishing Eri, above her sister’s well being. If Yakumo could control her personal feelings regarding Tenma, she would have been able to restrain herself from slapping Eri and interrupting Eri’s attempt at reconciliation.
    I wonder how can eri's words improve tenma's condition . Eri's words did offended Yakumo, but i wouldnt say it was because of that she wanted to punish her -im referring to the words themselves-(instead of punish her i would rather say correcting her). moreover, i will rather rephrase your words, Yakumo's first priority wasn't the "punishment", but to stop eri from continuing those harsh words.

    What was Eri's attempt of reconciliation???? she was belittling tenma, didnt she? where do you fit her intentions of reconciliation??? In her conscience, probably; but again, why did she say that if she really wanted to apologize? i disagree with your ASSUMPTION that "IF Yakumo could control her personal feelings regarding tenma..." personal feelings, indeed; but not wrong or evil feelings that she should "control". she cared for her sister and seeing the events that Eri's belittlement had nowhere to stop, what was she suppose to do? wait till tenma's god-mode wear off or to eri's words to finally devastate tenma? the slap itself wasnt a punishment, but a measure to stop eri's actions, not possible/assumed reconciliation.

    If Yakumo's main concern was Tenma, Yakumo should immediately gotten Tenma to a warm place as soon as possible and given her some cocoa. Instead, she lets Eri berate Tenma for a while, and when she does stop it she does so in order to punish Eri, not to help her sister; putting her main priorities in doubt.
    If Yakumo's main concern...?? there's no doubt Yakumo's MAIN concern is her sister. yes, Yakumo should, must have gotten tenma to a warm place (but, who wants to apologize, isnt tenma? who is the older sister, isnt tenma? so, if tenma wants to keep going and apologize, is Yakumo obliged to stop her? yes probably, but tenma's decision are what matter to Yakumo, are what Yakumo treasures. she doesnt LET eri belittle tenma for a "while", but watches the situation because tenma wanted to apologize. and when she does STOP her, she wanted to correct eri, but more than correct, discontinuing those harsh words. And then, the slap might have not helped tenma at all, but didnt the slap stop eri's belittlement? Maybe the slap wasnt necessary or something else would have been better to help her sister? sure, what is it? taking tenma to a warm place? tenma is too willing to apologize and wouldnt listen to anything oppose to that. instead of a slap, words? seriously, would have words function in this situation, would have eri listened to what Yakumo, her underclassman, the person with whom she has a grudge has to say? probably not.

    If this was true, Eri’s poor attempt at reconciling with Tenma wouldn’t have bothered Yakumo since no one but Tenma would have mattered to Yakumo until she was certain Tenma was all right.
    there was not even a poor attempt, what eri said was what Yakumo heard and so the belittlement, isnt it? did you forget that eri was belittling tenma? It did bother Yakumo, do you still remember what she said? the well being of tenma would have probably gotten worse with those harsh words and thus Yakumo's concern to get involved was the immediate reaction.

    Besides, Tenma was the one being lectured so she should have been the one to slap to Eri if it was bothering her, not Yakumo. Yakumo being the one to deliver the punishment to Eri is my main gripe with the situation, more so than Eri getting slapped.
    "Being lectured"???? what lecture??? it was a one-sided critic against tenma, wasnt it? tenma wouldnt have slapped to eri since she wanted to apologize. the slap came as a measure to stop eri's actions with regards to tenma. was yakumo the right person? yes, she had enough reasons to do so from eri's belittlement to her love and worries for her sister. who else would have stopped eri then? eri herself (...who knows), tenma (too unwilling to do so), and Yakumo. The events before the slap were in Yakumo's eyes toward a worse case situation, and therefore some action was needed.
    "Insanity - The Path To Haruhism"
    "Sarcasm - The Path To Kyonism"

  8. #148
    OMGItsTehSARS is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    ^

    That's because the only way for people to defend Eri in this chapter is:

    1) Assuming that if Yakumo didn't intervene, she would have apologizing despite the evident "belittling"
    2) Finding a way to indicate that Eri's actions in this chapter is not as bad (maybe innocent?) compared to the action Yakumo took
    3) Trying to prove that Yakumo's slap isn't justified
    4) For the above, making a claim about the slap and Yakumo's reaction/"anger?", ie: that the whole sister-love isn't as "genuine" as we thought it would be (ie: a relationship grown out of "guilt")

    So pretty much most of it is just discussing the slap and Yakumo.

    You want proof? Look at Swampstorm's post from the link (it's close to 100% about Yakumo)
    Last edited by OMGItsTehSARS; 02-06-2007 at 10:33 PM.

  9. #149
    GrapeJuice is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Thehunterattack , read your post and the only thing that i think you missed out is Yakumo slapped Eri just few moment after Eri stopped saying, so the theory to stop further verbally attack seemed not so persuasive

    hey OMGItsTehSARS, what do you think if i say like this:
    The only way(or some ways) for people to attack Eri in this chapter is:
    1) Assuming that if Yakumo didn't intervene, she wouldn't have apologizing despite the evident "belittling"
    2) Finding a way to indicate that Eri's actions in this chapter isn't innocent compared to the action Yakumo took
    3) Trying to prove that Yakumo's slap is justified
    4) For the above, refuse the claim about the slap and Yakumo's reaction/"anger?", ie: that the whole sister-love isn't as "genuine" as we thought it would be (ie: a relationship grown out of "guilt")
    So pretty much didn't discuss the slap and Yakumo

    Feel wierd, right? (btw, no offense but just prove that it is not so persuasive to say that way, hope you are not angry )

    PS:
    Well, trying to analyze a person personality in a manga ( that was determined by the author and can be changed by the author as he wants ) is difficult and to me is a little useless. Because in the end, The author has the right to make what kind of character he/she wants to make
    Just say KJ is not stupid enough (seeing his previous works) to do careless things like that. In reality ppl can be knocked in the head by accident(physically or mentally) and change personality also
    Last edited by GrapeJuice; 02-06-2007 at 10:43 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    She(Yakumo) is cute when she is embarrassed. And she has such nasty thoughts...come on, what's more perverted than going under the same umbrella

  10. #150
    -Ajax- is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by thehunterattack View Post
    I wonder how can eri's words improve tenma's condition . Eri's words did offended Yakumo, but i wouldnt say it was because of that she wanted to punish her -im referring to the words themselves-(instead of punish her i would rather say correcting her). moreover, i will rather rephrase your words, Yakumo's first priority wasn't the "punishment", but to stop eri from continuing those harsh words.
    Tenma has been deeply affected by Eri's cold shoulder approach...thats sort of the reason she got buried in the snow. If Eri made up with her right then and there Tenma would have cheered up considerably.

    Eri had stopped using harsh words by the time Yakumo slapped her.


    Yakumo didn't stop anything other than Eri's decision, though probably inadvertently.


    What was Eri's attempt of reconciliation???? she was belittling tenma, didnt she? where do you fit her intentions of reconciliation??? In her conscience, probably; but again, why did she say that if she really wanted to apologize? i disagree with your ASSUMPTION that "IF Yakumo could control her personal feelings regarding tenma..." personal feelings, indeed; but not wrong or evil feelings that she should "control". she cared for her sister and seeing the events that Eri's belittlement had nowhere to stop, what was she suppose to do? wait till tenma's god-mode wear off or to eri's words to finally devastate tenma? the slap itself wasnt a punishment, but a measure to stop eri's actions, not possible/assumed reconciliation.
    Eri's words gradually trickled off to few words and the whole time she was "scolding" Tenma she had an inner monologue going on in her head in confusion as to why she was saying these things. Then right when Eri was about to make the decision of what/who was most important to her, the slap occurs. At this point Yakumo wasn't stopping anything other than Eri's final decision, intentional or not.



    there was not even a poor attempt, what eri said was what Yakumo heard and so the belittlement, isnt it? did you forget that eri was belittling tenma? It did bother Yakumo, do you still remember what she said? the well being of tenma would have probably gotten worse with those harsh words and thus Yakumo's concern to get involved was the immediate reaction.
    Either way Yakumo didn't need to take it that far, other than to punish, its even mentioned on the side of the last page as "punishment".


    "Being lectured"???? what lecture??? it was a one-sided critic against tenma, wasnt it?
    ...and thus a lecture

    American Heritage Dictionary
    lec·ture (lěk'chər) Pronunciation Key
    n.
    1. An exposition of a given subject delivered before an audience or a class, as for the purpose of instruction.
    2. An earnest admonition or reproof; a reprimand.

 

 
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