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  1. #121
    shimano87 is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    lol... i think the dialogue in chapter 210 when they're in front of the motel would be like this...

    Harima: Eri-san, i think we should just stay in here for the night
    Eri: Urm..okay *blush*
    Harima: why dun u call ur butler?
    Eri: okay... *blush*
    *~called nakamura and the butler went berserk bout them staying together~*

    Eri: it's not like that nakamura-san! (yakumo's fav phrase to the tenma)

    lol...true grapejuice...HILARIOUS

  2. #122
    Swampstorm is offline Senior Member Regular
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    I'm curious to know how the focus of this thread shifted from Yakumo to Eri.

    Quote Originally Posted by shimano87
    i can understand how youngsters can act but i think eri's action is solely caused by the fact tht she usually gets what she wants...lol.. and she kept thinking she's better than everyone (mikoto and tenma if u guys which scenes im talking bout).. and then suddenly harima keeps getting himself against eri's position...
    Actually, a lot of Eri's actions are caused by the fact that she puts so much emotion into all of her close relationships. She's very caring, which also makes her all the more vulnerable to being hurt. That's why Eri is the one who tries to cheer Mikoto up when Asou dumps her, Eri is the one who cheers Akira up with a silly story when Akira is unsure of her ability to write a play for the Cultural Festival, and Eri is the one who tries to get Karasuma to cheer Tenma up during the baseball game, early in the series.

    If you pay attention to Eri's storyline with regards to her family, you'd see that she doesn't want to get whatever she wants. We know that she wants to pursue a career in fashion, but she wants to strike it out on her own without her family's help. She very nearly sacrifices her happiness (and remember, for someone who is so focused on finding true love like Eri, being forced into an arranged marriage is the last thing that she wants to do) in order to do her "duty towards the family" - and is stopped only by Harima and Mikoto's interference during the omiai arc. The only thing that Eri wants is warm, caring relationships. She's almost completely oblivious to her own wealth.

    Quote Originally Posted by shimano87
    yakumo on the other hand usually places herself no one would notice her (except her beauty that is)... and she unexpectedly keeps bringing herself forward from there as well as towards harima..
    Yakumo is indifferent to most of the things that go on around her. She is supposedly good friends with Sara, but their friendship is completely one-sided - Sara is the one who has to extract conversations out of Yakumo, Sara is the one who has to drag Yakumo out to be sociable, and Sara is the one who is always trying to solve Yakumo's problems.

    But is this reciprocated? Where was Yakumo when Asou started dating Mikoto, and Sara was left alone? Yakumo may be less reactive than Eri, but that's also because she doesn't invest the same kind of emotion into her relationships that Eri does. It's a trade-off.

    Personally, I prefer Eri's attitude by far. She may make mistakes, and she may get angry, but at the end of the day, she always stands by the people she cares about. That's the only thing that counts.

    Quote Originally Posted by GrapeJuice
    Hehe shiman, what do you expect? Eri with exactly same personality as Yakumo or Mikoto?
    Mikoto actually has a lot in common with Eri. Mikoto is outgoing, lively, emotional, and takes genuine interest in the well being of her friends, in the same way that Eri does (that's why they get along so well). Yakumo and Mikoto are nearly polar opposites.
    Last edited by Swampstorm; 02-01-2007 at 07:57 AM.

  3. #123
    Kolox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
    I'm curious to know how the focus of this thread shifted from Yakumo to Eri.
    Basing the emotions of the latest chapter, it's a given. Onigiri is dead, unfortunately. Maybe it will be revived, who knows...

    If you pay attention to Eri's storyline with regards to her family, you'd see that she doesn't want to get whatever she wants. We know that she wants to pursue a career in fashion, but she wants to strike it out on her own without her family's help. She very nearly sacrifices her happiness (and remember, for someone who is so focused on finding true love like Eri, being forced into an arranged marriage is the last thing that she wants to do) in order to do her "duty towards the family" - and is stopped only by Harima and Mikoto's interference during the omiai arc. The only thing that Eri wants is warm, caring relationships. She's almost completely oblivious to her own wealth.
    Firstly, it's not what he meant - she was a little spoiled and she a rich girl - she usually got what she wanted to. Unlike others character which needed to get part-time jobs to have the same things she just asked her parents to buy.
    Secondly, trying to do something independant doesn't make her any better. From what she said, you can also say she is uninterested in things which her family does - that reasoning is fine for me, it's stupid to do something you don't like to do. She could use her family help to open her own business.
    But If she tried to have different carieer just because she doesn't want to depend on family fortune, then she is being hypocrite. That's not for what her parent's were working for all this time - just throwing those things away is the most awful thing child can do to his parents. I believe my first thought is right, because Eri is such ungrateful brat. (Moreover, Harima would hate if she did - he was born poor, and when he would see someone just throwing away such fortune for no reason, what Harima hates the most is when people waste stuff - and he had that false impression about Eri for long time, hopefully he got rid of it).
    Yakumo is indifferent to most of the things that go on around her. She is supposedly good friends with Sara, but their friendship is completely one-sided - Sara is the one who has to extract conversations out of Yakumo, Sara is the one who has to drag Yakumo out to be sociable, and Sara is the one who is always trying to solve Yakumo's problems.
    That's not it - Yakumo is unsociable -that's the fact. But it's not like she doesn't care about Sara - she cares a lot, which was proved lots of times. Yakumo has just problems showing her feelings - it's not a matter of shyness but being scared to hurt or be hurt. Sara and Tenma understands that, so they don't mind Yakumo's passiveness. Harima however doesn't see her as such, he is a person which attacks with his own ideas and emotions and he actually doesn't make Yakumo make decisions - somehow he acts pretty selfish, because he decides for Yakumo...and she doesn't mind - this part of her character is "too perfect" and sometimes annoying.

    But is this reciprocated? Where was Yakumo when Asou started dating Mikoto, and Sara was left alone? Yakumo may be less reactive than Eri, but that's also because she doesn't invest the same kind of emotion into her relationships that Eri does. It's a trade-off.
    If Sara ever needed such help, Yakumo would help her - but she didn't need it. So what's the point ?...

    Personally, I prefer Eri's attitude by far. She may make mistakes, and she may get angry, but at the end of the day, she always stands by the people she cares about. That's the only thing that counts.
    I would say this "always stands by the people she cares about" is sometimes "correcting her mistakes". Not always, like when she did cheer up Mikoto after the break up with Asou, but several times she just was trying to say "I'm sorry" in other way - somehow it was always convenient for her that the occasions to repay always happened after the quarell (Mikoto, Harima)

    Mikoto actually has a lot in common with Eri. Mikoto is outgoing, lively, emotional, and takes genuine interest in the well being of her friends, in the same way that Eri does (that's why they get along so well). Yakumo and Mikoto are nearly polar opposites.
    They would been polar opposites if one of them was "evil" and one "good" (if you believe in that stuff....I don't ). Both of them are caring in their own way.

  4. #124
    Swampstorm is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    Basing the emotions of the latest chapter, it's a given. Onigiri is dead, unfortunately. Maybe it will be revived, who knows...
    Yakumo isn't the same thing as Onigiri, though, just as Eri isn't the same thing as Flag.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    Firstly, it's not what he meant - she was a little spoiled and she a rich girl - she usually got what she wanted to. Unlike others character which needed to get part-time jobs to have the same things she just asked her parents to buy.
    Here's the thing that you don't recognize - Eri didn't choose which family to be born to. Can you blame her for being rich? Yet look at the words you use - the word "spoiled" suggests that something has "gone bad".

    Now, I'm familiar with the stereotype. Rich children, and especially only children, are classically supposed to be spoiled and selfish. If you have to work hard to get everything you have, and you see someone getting it without any effort, it's natural to feel resentment.

    It's not like Eri has won the lottery and all her problems are magically solved. Her family is always away and she's alone (remember Tenma's introduction to Eri just before Ch.7?). She carries the stigma of her stereotype - her status makes her unapproachable, and breeds resentment and jealousy all around (see Ep.15 S1 for more details). In the midst of all this, all she wants is a simple, genuine relationship.

    This is why Eri insists on cooking food for her father, when she could just as easily go with him to a fancy restaurant. That's why she falls for Harima and makes friends with Tenma and the others without giving a second thought to class distinctions. This is why she pours her heart into all her relationships and is so vulnerable to being hurt. She may have money, but that's the very thing that isolates her, and denies her the only things she truly cares about. What use is money then? Dying of thirst on a raft in the middle of the sea, what use do you have for all that water?

    You can begrudge her for that wealth, and for having things "easy", if you want - most people would, in your shoes. But I wouldn't wish that lifestyle on anyone.

    Eri gets her first part time job in Ch.154. You don't see her object or complain to doing work - she enjoys it. Given the rest of what I've mentioned, you should probably be able to figure out why.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    Secondly, trying to do something independant doesn't make her any better. From what she said, you can also say she is uninterested in things which her family does - that reasoning is fine for me, it's stupid to do something you don't like to do. She could use her family help to open her own business.
    Ah, but here's the thing. She doesn't want to rely on her family. This might seem odd, but things get kind of boring when there's no effort involved. The effort is what gives value to the reward.

    She's not uninterested in her family - she almost went along with the Omiai, just because she thought that her parents would be happy if she went along with their requests for an arranged marriage. She has a very strong sense of duty.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    But If she tried to have different carieer just because she doesn't want to depend on family fortune, then she is being hypocrite. That's not for what her parent's were working for all this time - just throwing those things away is the most awful thing child can do to his parents. I believe my first thought is right, because Eri is such ungrateful brat. (Moreover, Harima would hate if she did - he was born poor, and when he would see someone just throwing away such fortune for no reason, what Harima hates the most is when people waste stuff - and he had that false impression about Eri for long time, hopefully he got rid of it).
    Well, Eri never said anything about her inheritance. She just wants to do something with her own strength and her own ability. It's nothing to do with being ungrateful.

    I guess it's like buying a game with every possible cheat code programmed in. Sure, it might be fun for a while, but it just gets boring because all the hard work is already done for you. When you put in effort and win by your own skill, the rewards are much more satisfying.

    Money isn't the only reason for a person to work. When all your basic needs are met, money really isn't all that useful. You need something more to achieve self-actualization. That's what Eri is searching for.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    That's not it - Yakumo is unsociable -that's the fact. But it's not like she doesn't care about Sara - she cares a lot, which was proved lots of times.
    Like...?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    Yakumo has just problems showing her feelings - it's not a matter of shyness but being scared to hurt or be hurt.
    Hurt by what? Where are you getting this from?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    Sara and Tenma understands that, so they don't mind Yakumo's passiveness. Harima however doesn't see her as such, he is a person which attacks with his own ideas and emotions and he actually doesn't make Yakumo make decisions - somehow he acts pretty selfish, because he decides for Yakumo...and she doesn't mind - this part of her character is "too perfect" and sometimes annoying.
    Actually, they're both similar in the fact that they're both fairly introverted. Harima may be loud and vocal when it comes to his opinions, but he's very much lost in his own inner world. Yakumo doesn't react to his lack of sensitivity because she, too, is busy being introspective.

    Eri, however, is more sensitive to the people around her, so she's much more easily hurt by Harima's behavior, causing her to lash back. Of course, by so doing, she also has helped draw him out of his shell. Their situation is a bit complex, but I think they can find a balance together, somewhere in there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    If Sara ever needed such help, Yakumo would help her - but she didn't need it. So what's the point ?...
    Sara was obviously distressed when she saw Asou and Mikoto dating. She needed help then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    I would say this "always stands by the people she cares about" is sometimes "correcting her mistakes". Not always, like when she did cheer up Mikoto after the break up with Asou, but several times she just was trying to say "I'm sorry" in other way - somehow it was always convenient for her that the occasions to repay always happened after the quarell (Mikoto, Harima)
    The incident with Mikoto and Harima was long resolved by the time of Mikoto's breakup with Asou. You're talking about a difference of at least half a year.

    By "standing by her friends" I mean that Eri is there to help when her friends are facing difficult times. You measure friendship by how people treat you during the bad times, rather than during the good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    They would been polar opposites if one of them was "evil" and one "good" (if you believe in that stuff....I don't ). Both of them are caring in their own way.
    Well, that's only if you consider extroversion to be good and introversion bad. Both come with their share of strengths and weaknesses. It's not that introverts are uncaring - but by definition, their thoughts and feelings are inwardly directed. This can sometimes manifest itself as insensitivity, though.

    If you look at it, Harima is fairly introverted as well. That's why he's able to help Eri out so much during the Omiai arc - from him, she learns to pursue her own dreams, rather than just trying to please everyone around her.
    Last edited by Swampstorm; 02-01-2007 at 09:21 AM.

  5. #125
    Kolox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
    Yakumo isn't the same thing as Onigiri, though, just as Eri isn't the same thing as Flag.
    Your right, but I still feel I answered your question. Because Onigiri is dead - the interest about Yakumo has dropped. As simple as that.

    the word "spoiled" suggests that something has "gone bad".
    Word spoiled has a lot of idiomatic meanings. Here was used as she was, from very beginning, given almost everything without the same effort as other peole made.

    Now, I'm familiar with the stereotype. Rich children, and especially only children, are classically supposed to be spoiled and selfish. If you have to work hard to get everything you have, and you see someone getting it without any effort, it's natural to feel resentment.
    Hmm, yes. There are always exception which proves the rule - Eri, for at least first part of manga - acted selfishly and spoiled. Not anymore of course, or at least not in such level as she used to be.

    It's not like Eri has won the lottery and all her problems are magically solved. Her family is always away and she's alone (remember Tenma's introduction to Eri just before Ch.7?). She carries the stigma of her stereotype - her status makes her unapproachable, and breeds resentment and jealousy all around (see Ep.15 S1 for more details). In the midst of all this, all she wants is a simple, genuine relationship.
    The problem with Eri is that she falls to stereotype. I don't disagree that she doesn't have her own hardships and she would prefer normal life with normal family - but she doesn't show this. Just because she shows that "she is a rich girl from rich family" everyone just categorized her as such. You know, she could keep her rich personality for herself and no one would guess - but she acts like she is proud of it. Only some people knows the true her, but it's only limited number of people. Harima saw her image and didn't liked for the start.
    How unjust the world is, unfortunately - sometimes your "Image" itself can make you enemies and friends.

    Dying of thirst on a raft in the middle of the sea, what use do you have for all that water?
    Ask for help I haven't seen Eri doing it much - the only time she surpassed her pride so much she asked for help was when she was supposed to get married.

    Eri gets her first part time job in Ch.154. You don't see her object or complain to doing work - she enjoys it. Given the rest of what I've mentioned, you should probably be able to figure out why.
    Good for her - but it her first and last job so I wouldn't consider it as much experience - it was a new experience. I found my job fun at the first day too - but it's getting less fun if you need to repeat doing jobs all the time

    Ah, but here's the thing. She doesn't want to rely on her family. This might seem odd, but things get kind of boring when there's no effort involved. The effort is what gives value to the reward.
    Man, I would do anything for such boring life, really Do you know how hard is it to do everything from complete zero ? If she has way to build up a barber house without taking credit for bank - why shouldn't she ? I don't really see the problem. Her parents surely would like to help her.

    She's not uninterested in her family - she almost went along with the Omiai, just because she thought that her parents would be happy if she went along with their requests for an arranged marriage. She has a very strong sense of duty.
    Yeah, agreed. I was talking about the job her father / mother were doing. If I remember correctly - they were bankers. This is what I called "not interesting" for Eri.

    Well, Eri never said anything about her inheritance. She just wants to do something with her own strength and her own ability. It's nothing to do with being ungrateful.
    I said it as a option - if she did throw away her family connections. Nothing was said..actually, not much information about Eri's future plan - she just probably never thought about them

    I guess it's like buying a game with every possible cheat code programmed in. Sure, it might be fun for a while, but it just gets boring because all the hard work is already done for you. When you put in effort and win by your own skill, the rewards are much more satisfying.
    There is no cheats in real life - wake up. The only cheat you could consider is robbing the bank. She could still develope her business, but at least start with her family budget - lot's of people do that and are proud of it, they are proud of their parents which helped them succeding in something.

    Money isn't the only reason for a person to work. When all your basic needs are met, money really isn't all that useful. You need something more to achieve self-actualization. That's what Eri is searching for.
    So I said. That's why she wants to be a hairdresser and not continue her parents companies, since she would feel happy about it.

    Like...?
    Sleepover for example.
    Karaoke party - always with Sara.
    Helping Sara in church - twice.

    Hurt by what? Where are you getting this from?
    People close their own feelings because they don't want them to be used against them. Basic psychology. Eri does it all the time

    Actually, they're both similar in the fact that they're both fairly introverted. Harima may be loud and vocal when it comes to his opinions, but he's very much lost in his own inner world. Yakumo doesn't react to his lack of sensitivity because she, too, is busy being introspective.
    Well, probably. She is a person which has problem with communicating with other world - although not the same way as autistic child.

    Eri, however, is more sensitive to the people around her, so she's much more easily hurt by Harima's behavior, causing her to lash back. Of course, by so doing, she also has helped draw him out of his shell. Their situation is a bit complex, but I think they can find a balance together, somewhere in there.
    She is mostly sensitive to people she cares about, their opinion and stuff. Other people will just met with her ignorance. That's what Harima hated in her.

    Sara was obviously distressed when she saw Asou and Mikoto dating. She needed help then.
    Can't remember the moment - could you tell me the chapter ?

    The incident with Mikoto and Harima was long resolved by the time of Mikoto's breakup with Asou. You're talking about a difference of at least half a year.
    Eri's old character is returning to her a little in my opinion, that's why I'm suffering's to that. Seeing her reactions for past few chapters, I just felt it was the same old Eri.

    By "standing by her friends" I mean that Eri is there to help when her friends are facing difficult times. You measure friendship by how people treat you during the bad times, rather than during the good.
    You measure friendship on both parts - what's use of guy who once helped me if he was always lying to be or backstabbing (not referring here to Eri in any way)

    Well, that's only if you consider extroversion to be good and introversion bad. Both come with their share of strengths and weaknesses. It's not that introverts are uncaring - but by definition, their thoughts and feelings are inwardly directed. This can sometimes manifest itself as insensitivity, though.
    Sometimes being open can hurt someone. Sometimes being too closed can hurt someone. There is no definition as "best way to behave" - they both doing it in their own style.

    If you look at it, Harima is fairly introverted as well. That's why he's able to help Eri out so much during the Omiai arc - from him, she learns to pursue her own dreams, rather than just trying to please everyone around her.
    Whatever he wanted it or not, he helped her a lot. That's true.

  6. #126
    Swampstorm is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    Your right, but I still feel I answered your question. Because Onigiri is dead - the interest about Yakumo has dropped. As simple as that.
    That really doesn't say much for her personality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    Word spoiled has a lot of idiomatic meanings. Here was used as she was, from very beginning, given almost everything without the same effort as other peole made.
    The idiom finds its roots in the word itself. It means that your character or disposition is damaged due to pampering. A person who gets whatever they want is not spoiled. When their character is damaged as a result of getting whatever they want, then they are spoiled. You're attacking a person's character with that word - it's rather harsh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    Hmm, yes. There are always exception which proves the rule - Eri, for at least first part of manga - acted selfishly and spoiled. Not anymore of course, or at least not in such level as she used to be.
    Oh, Eri has certainly matured, but she was never truly selfish. The only thing she's done is dispel the stereotype by consistently disproving it. Eri's popularity has skyrocketed because people are finally starting to see the girl that was obscured by the stereotype, rather than because of any inherent change in her character. Some her long term fans have seen her positive qualities from the very start.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    The problem with Eri is that she falls to stereotype. I don't disagree that she doesn't have her own hardships and she would prefer normal life with normal family - but she doesn't show this. Just because she shows that "she is a rich girl from rich family" everyone just categorized her as such. You know, she could keep her rich personality for herself and no one would guess - but she acts like she is proud of it. Only some people knows the true her, but it's only limited number of people. Harima saw her image and didn't liked for the start.
    Rewatch Ep.15, S1, with Eri and Mikoto's first meeting. That should give you a better idea of how she works. The image is just something to keep certain people at bay. She's acts fairly naturally amongst all of her classmates.

    Harima was reacting with his own prejudice. That has changed, fortunately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    How unjust the world is, unfortunately - sometimes your "Image" itself can make you enemies and friends.
    Insert empathy here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    Ask for help I haven't seen Eri doing it much - the only time she surpassed her pride so much she asked for help was when she was supposed to get married.
    It's a metaphor. Money doesn't buy you everything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    Good for her - but it her first and last job so I wouldn't consider it as much experience - it was a new experience. I found my job fun at the first day too - but it's getting less fun if you need to repeat doing jobs all the time
    She gets another during New Years'. Granted, she isn't doing it for money, so it does hold more entertainment value for her. Jobs are usually more fun if you're doing them for your own satisfaction.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    Man, I would do anything for such boring life, really Do you know how hard is it to do everything from complete zero ? If she has way to build up a barber house without taking credit for bank - why shouldn't she ? I don't really see the problem. Her parents surely would like to help her.
    That's one of life's ironies. You may do anything to trade places with someone like her, but yet, someone like her might very well do anything to trade places with someone like you. It's all about a balanced life - something that provides just the right amount of comfort, and just the right amount of challenge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    Yeah, agreed. I was talking about the job her father / mother were doing. If I remember correctly - they were bankers. This is what I called "not interesting" for Eri.
    I don't remember their professions being stated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    she just probably never thought about them
    How do you know that?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    There is no cheats in real life - wake up. The only cheat you could consider is robbing the bank. She could still develope her business, but at least start with her family budget - lot's of people do that and are proud of it, they are proud of their parents which helped them succeding in something.
    It's a metaphor. It wouldn't be necessary if you could simply see why having everything done for you is tiresome. Or why people would ever work without caring about the monetary reward.

    Eri could use her parents' help, but she doesn't want it. Some people climb mountains with supplementary oxygen, others don't want it. Sometimes, when life is going too smoothly, you've got to find yourself a challenge.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    Sleepover for example.
    Karaoke party - always with Sara.
    Helping Sara in church - twice.
    By request. I'm talking about doing things for your friends when you see that they need your help. Think about Mikoto when she helped during the Omiai. Eri didn't ask for help, but Mikoto knew that she needed it. That's an important part of friendship.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    People close their own feelings because they don't want them to be used against them. Basic psychology. Eri does it all the time
    Another possibility is that those feelings weren't expressed because they weren't felt in the first place. In Eri's case, one feeling is masked by another. In Yakumo's case, no feelings are expressed. Is it because she doesn't want to be hurt, or is it simply because she doesn't feel a strong enough emotion at that point in time?

    It could be either, but you cannot say without guessing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    Well, probably. She is a person which has problem with communicating with other world - although not the same way as autistic child.
    Unfortunately, that "communication" quality is the important one when it comes to relationships.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    She is mostly sensitive to people she cares about, their opinion and stuff. Other people will just met with her ignorance. That's what Harima hated in her.
    Well, no. If you look at the flashback in Ep.15 S1, she's very sincere in her response to both confession attempts - even the joke confession at Mikoto's restaurant. In S2, around Ep.11 or 12, she meets the same guy - but this time she responds very differently. Many insincere confessions, such as Sano's in Ep.8 S1, have caused Eri to build up a wall around herself.

    It's not that she's insensitive. It's harder to build trust with people who go for deep relationships. All of the faults that Harima saw in Eri were due to his own prejudice. The reason she's become closer to him is because she's broken down those prejudices over time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    Can't remember the moment - could you tell me the chapter ?
    It's one of the b chapters. I'll have to look it up. I'll PM when I find it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    Eri's old character is returning to her a little in my opinion, that's why I'm suffering's to that. Seeing her reactions for past few chapters, I just felt it was the same old Eri.
    Her character hasn't reverted so much as your opinions of her have. Prejudice is a difficult thing - when you see someone behave contrary to a stereotype, it's extremely difficult to admit that the stereotype is wrong. When you see something that seems to match, though, it reinforces your belief all the more.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    You measure friendship on both parts - what's use of guy who once helped me if he was always lying to be or backstabbing (not referring here to Eri in any way)
    Well, if you're not referring to Eri in any way, then it's irrelevant to our present discussion.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    Sometimes being open can hurt someone. Sometimes being too closed can hurt someone. There is no definition as "best way to behave" - they both doing it in their own style.
    It's nothing to do with being "open" or "closed". It's about taking an active interest in the people around you, and caring for their needs. It's true that this may make you vulnerable to being hurt, but the alternative is much more... selfish.
    Last edited by Swampstorm; 02-01-2007 at 11:01 AM.

  7. #127
    _Vincent_ is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by shimano87 View Post
    *~called nakamura and the butler went berserk bout them staying together~*
    I think he'll be encouraging her rather than getting angry >_<

    lol...true grapejuice...HILARIOUS
    IT IS hilarious, I wish KJ will do more mind swapping in the future. ^^

  8. #128
    Kolox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Talking ..long...

    Quote Originally Posted by Swampstorm View Post
    That really doesn't say much for her personality.
    Well, yes, I agree - but you asked yourself "I'm curious to know how the focus of this thread shifted from Yakumo to Eri." - so I'm telling you. She is less popular now since Onigiri is dead.

    The idiom finds its roots in the word itself. It means that your character or disposition is damaged due to pampering. A person who gets whatever they want is not spoiled. When their character is damaged as a result of getting whatever they want, then they are spoiled. You're attacking a person's character with that word - it's rather harsh.
    Get caught red-handed doesn't mean someone caught your hand while it was red, idioms But I'm not English so I can't act as specialist. And well, let's change the "spoiled" to "cannot accept the fact that something isn't going the way she wants to go" - more Political Correct ^_^

    Oh, Eri has certainly matured, but she was never truly selfish. The only thing she's done is dispel the stereotype by consistently disproving it. Eri's popularity has skyrocketed because people are finally starting to see the girl that was obscured by the stereotype, rather than because of any inherent change in her character. Some her long term fans have seen her positive qualities from the very start.
    The way she threated the guy who confessed to her, at the very beginning, was cold - but that was long post, although it proved that Eri's previous character was rather harsh. The way she treated her friends "Why I'm with you, I should be meeting with some cool guys" - maybe that was just teasing and the girls understood that, but in my opinion that was bad taste joke - repeated twice.

    Rewatch Ep.15, S1, with Eri and Mikoto's first meeting. That should give you a better idea of how she works. The image is just something to keep certain people at bay. She's acts fairly naturally amongst all of her classmates.
    She snapped that time. Her true self just exploded in front of Mikoto, I remember. Well, proves how tricky and understanding Mikoto can be - but previously she was acting like that in front of Mikoto too, right ? Tenma, Akira, Mikoto - they have gained Eri's trust...and Harima..Harima just makes her so irritated and agitated sometimes that she is unable to keep her cool - so she stopped because it was useless.

    Harima was reacting with his own prejudice. That has changed, fortunately.
    Without that, Flag wouldn't have any chances and Harima would stay a jerk - because he often reacted toward Eri angrily without real reason.

    Insert empathy here.
    I don't hate Eri - I just think she is going wrong way about doing all that stuff.

    It's a metaphor. Money doesn't buy you everything.
    Yeah, no one ask you to use them all the time, but sometimes you can ask for help. Not actually using your friends make them feel bad - every friend wants to help other one, it's a given. Eri sometimes wants to fight by herself, which is a bad way of doing things - and keeping secrets from your friends the other one.
    other things you can buy with mastercard.

    She gets another during New Years'. Granted, she isn't doing it for money, so it does hold more entertainment value for her. Jobs are usually more fun if you're doing them for your own satisfaction.
    Never disagreed with that one. She felt that she needed to compensate to Mikoto that time - that was the only reason she did all of this.

    That's one of life's ironies. You may do anything to trade places with someone like her, but yet, someone like her might very well do anything to trade places with someone like you. It's all about a balanced life - something that provides just the right amount of comfort, and just the right amount of challenge.
    You got me wrong. What I'm against here is being unaware of the fact how lucky you are. Appreciate what you have and use it - otherwise you are hypocrite and people don't like hypocrites. But I think it's kinda irrelevant to Eri case, since the only point she made was that she would prefer to do something else than her parents.

    I don't remember their professions being stated.
    They were, something about cooperating with Scandinavia or something, I will check the manga later.

    How do you know that?
    That's easy She was impressed by Worker-san because he did thought about it - she herself said that she never thought about her future and she doesn't have anything particular in mind - why he had.

    It's a metaphor. It wouldn't be necessary if you could simply see why having everything done for you is tiresome. Or why people would ever work without caring about the monetary reward.
    It's a metaphor - there is no such thing as "easy life" - there is only "hard start" and "harder life". You will always encounter hardships in your life, but if you have chance to dispose some of them and deal with other one which you couldn't deal at the beginning..why not? Life is interesting.

    Eri could use her parents' help, but she doesn't want it. Some people climb mountains with supplementary oxygen, others don't want it. Sometimes, when life is going too smoothly, you've got to find yourself a challenge.
    Climbing mountains with extra stuff is safer. The same with life and work. Not using even a little is stupid in my opinion, there was a reason her parent's worked so hard - to have good life and that her daughter had good life. Some empathy here

    By request. I'm talking about doing things for your friends when you see that they need your help. Think about Mikoto when she helped during the Omiai. Eri didn't ask for help, but Mikoto knew that she needed it. That's an important part of friendship.
    Tenma felt bad when she was rude to Harima, Yakumo comforted her. Yakumo dress up as mangaka when Harima lost his inspiration to draw manga - she even created a cake for him. The shrimp party is another case. Actually, Yakumo was doing lot's of things for her sister, for Sarah - even if she couldn't get the idea herself - she never rejected they little favour making.

    Another possibility is that those feelings weren't expressed because they weren't felt in the first place. In Eri's case, one feeling is masked by another. In Yakumo's case, no feelings are expressed. Is it because she doesn't want to be hurt, or is it simply because she doesn't feel a strong enough emotion at that point in time?
    It could be either, but you cannot say without guessing.
    There are emotions, for Sarah, Tenma and Harima - that was shown. For others...well, Yakumo is kinda closed to other people. Well, actually Yakumo's closed personality might be the result of her mind reading abilities - she just don't want to be too close. Probably it bothers her.

    Unfortunately, that "communication" quality is the important one when it comes to relationships.
    Hence she has such limited number of friends - her sister and Sarah are probably the only one's which can communicate with her. And only towards them Yakumo has any feelings (well, there is Hanai and feeling of fear ^_^)


    Well, no. If you look at the flashback in Ep.15 S1, she's very sincere in her response to both confession attempts - even the joke confession at Mikoto's restaurant. In S2, around Ep.11 or 12, she meets the same guy - but this time she responds very differently. Many insincere confessions, such as Sano's in Ep.8 S1, have caused Eri to build up a wall around herself.
    I wouldn't call them sincere but "not harming" or at least "courtesy" when it comes to Mikoto party. Next time she meets him, she can be open with him because it wasn't their first time - Mikoto was inviting the girls lots of times to the parties.

    It's not that she's insensitive. It's harder to build trust with people who go for deep relationships. All of the faults that Harima saw in Eri were due to his own prejudice. The reason she's become closer to him is because she's broken down those prejudices over time.
    He gave a little speech after she rejected that guy so bluntly. Made sense.

    It's one of the b chapters. I'll have to look it up. I'll PM when I find it.
    OK

    Her character hasn't reverted so much as your opinions of her have. Prejudice is a difficult thing - when you see someone behave contrary to a stereotype, it's extremely difficult to admit that the stereotype is wrong. When you see something that seems to match, though, it reinforces your belief all the more.
    When someone, who dug herself up from stereotype - and for pretty long time she wasn't like the stereotype, for almost 50-70 chapters. And then she is behaving the same way before the argument with Mikoto. That's my feelings - I have no prejudice toward Eri.

    Well, if you're not referring to Eri in any way, then it's irrelevant to our present discussion.
    I disagreed with your statement that good things matters more - mostly depends how strong the good things were and how forgiving is the other person. I didn't wanted to relate it with Eri, because her bad things were all forgiven so they don't have any impact anymore.

    It's nothing to do with being "open" or "closed". It's about taking an active interest in the people around you, and caring for their needs. It's true that this may make you vulnerable to being hurt, but the alternative is much more... selfish.
    One of the things I wouldn't say about Yakumo is being selfish - all her joy comes from helping other. She is just dope when it comes to reading emotions or solving problems - but she takes the best effort to make other better.

  9. #129
    shimano87 is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    hey...swampstorm..do u think u could pm me on the chapter regarding sara spotting asou and mikoto on a date? thanks

  10. #130
    GrapeJuice is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Hehe have so many things to read now after a pretty tired day ^_^

    About Eri, i don't think she is "spoiled" , probably she just want to act a bit cool in front of her friends (a bit like Harima)
    But since Akira knew everything that we do, Mikoto is a too close for Eri to hide anything , so only Tenma and those who not so close really think that she is a kind of rich and perfect girl. e.g remember Tenma was once surprise that Eri do not know how to cook because she always seemed perfect. Then the chapter where Tenma trust in Eri's flirting skill, but she completely out of track (atheletics, hairstyle......menu o_O) when come to action

    I don't think she really mean it when complain about how clumsy Tenma is or those kind of things. Btw a bit mess up in relationship cause of misunderstanding is pretty normal so why everyone seemed to be so concerned about it (it is not like they fight to win over Harima 's heart or things like that) ? Bet half of my computer and the new ram that they will soon make up :P

    About Yakumo, i actually think she is pretty sensitive to those around her, especially those close to her. Well she care about her sister, do not need proves here. She always notice Harima's feelings and his trouble(manga, relationship and stuffs).... probably more than how much Harima noticed about himself. She take care and know whenever Iori angry or feeling unwell. She helped Sara sometime also (probably a lot of times, maybe are just not show in the manga ) but it is not that clear because Sara seem to be a quite carefree character so nothing trouble her that much.

    Well in summary for those lazy to read: Yakumo and Eri are 2 almost-perfectly good characters (since some of their flaws in some POV are also admired) but in 2 diffrent ways. So it is quite hard to compare them in any means.

    Why did i post my opinion about Eri and Yakumo in this topic again..... hmmm >_O..... hhhmmmm ..... damn forgot the reason .... well....just for fun then

    Ah shiman, about Eri and yakumo switching behaviour things, it will pretty hard to image since Eri do not have that spychic ability, so she can't feel completely safe when stay near Harima, like Yakumo do.

    PS: do you think that Harima's affection to Yakumo is no different if she is 16 or 10 years old. I mean the way he treat her... completely without any romantic thought .... poor Yakumo -_-
    Last edited by GrapeJuice; 02-02-2007 at 01:31 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox
    She(Yakumo) is cute when she is embarrassed. And she has such nasty thoughts...come on, what's more perverted than going under the same umbrella

 

 
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