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  1. #111
    Kolox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    I just mentioned Yakumo’s biological clock not clicking yet as an exaggerated way of saying she’s not seriously looking for a boyfriend, yet. It was a joke, and it wasn’t meant to be taken too seriously.
    Sorry man , biological clock is biological clock - if you say that it isn't ticking, then you put Yakumo in very suspicious way - maybe she is a male.
    (...and no one took it seriosuly, do you really believe in Were-cat Yakumo ..but when you think about it.. it's not so impossible)

    But seriously, the whole "Ghost" thingy is (in my opinion) just telling Yakumo
    "Get yourself a guy, God, you are so slow !! Get over yourself !!"
    ... of course in much more sophisticated and nicer way

    Quote Originally Posted by kniteowl
    But if we assume that she's a werewolf... well werecat because she doesn't like dogs, when was she biten? could we assume it's a genetic family thing... and that tenma can bend spoons more easily during the fullmoon?
    I think Iori and some other cat got his way (of bitting her of course ) when she didn't noticed. Maybe she was bitten when her biological clock started to click, tick and all that stuff. Or maybe she was bitten by Tenma, who had a vector for were-catness, and Tenma was.... born with it (just look at her, she obviously is an example of the girl who could pass you some kind of dieseas If she had bitten you).
    Maybe Tenma is superior to Yakumo in powers ?? She us just hiding her true powers !! (or too stupid to notice ??)
    Last edited by Kolox; 12-21-2006 at 11:27 PM. Reason: grammar edit, nothing special

  2. #112
    kniteowl is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox View Post
    I think Iori and some other cat got his way (of bitting her of course ) when she didn't noticed. Maybe she was bitten when her biological clock started to click, tick and all that stuff. Or maybe she was bitten by Tenma, who had a vector for were-catness, and Tenma was.... born with it (just look at her, she obviously is an example of the girl who could pass you some kind of dieseas If she had bitten you).
    Maybe Tenma is superior to Yakumo in powers ?? She us just hiding her true powers !! (or too stupid to notice ??)
    Iori and some other cat got their way by biting Yakumo huh? I wonder where??? LOL (Kidding) I Wasn't anything implying anything... DON'T LOOK AT ME LIKE THAT :P (kidding) although if Iori did bite Yakumo that means Yakumo and Iori Met before she got her powers, in the manga she already had her powers when she met Iori.

    Tenma biting Yakumo??? I can't see that happening... Tenma and Iori Don't get along sometimes I'm not so sure if she's a werecat... Maybe it's a battle for domination to see who's who top dog... cat between tenma and Iori, Remember the chapter where Iori brought all his cat friends to party in tenma's room.

    What about the time when Tenma and Iori switched bodies and Iori ended up spending the day with Harima, Did Tenma/Iori Bite him? Maybe the Disease doesn't affect males.

    Personally I think it's her biological clock... it would just make more sense... if she were sexually active, and she could use her powers for whatever reason she believes in.

    There's also the possibility that it's both except the werecat abilities strenghten her ESP even further then originally. She's good at gym right? Compared to her sister. (Except Ski-ing). Maybe her werecat abilities made her better physically also.

    Although this is all speculation and assusmptions don't take them seriously LOL
    Last edited by kniteowl; 12-22-2006 at 12:25 AM.

  3. #113
    fifthtouch is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Just wanna ask a question... when did Tsukamoto sisters become one of characters in Van Helsing?

  4. #114
    rikem is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    llllllllllllloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooolllllll l xD Hellsing doom XD

    Since the reiko(/ghost girl) 's words, school rumble have passed so many alternative dimensions...



  5. #115
    Kolox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by fifthtouch View Post
    Just wanna ask a question... when did Tsukamoto sisters become one of characters in Van Helsing?
    Because is more 'rumble' that way And of course... Yakumo and Tenma duo is much better than the ones from the Van Hellsing movie

  6. #116
    reinard-fox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    Yakumo will have to confront those sort of thoughts at some point one way or another, and I personally don’t think anyone is very good for Yakumo at this point in the series. I’m against people saying Harima is good for Yakumo because he doesn’t have dirty thoughts about her, since the reason he doesn’t have any is because he has zero romantic interest in her.
    Of course she will confront them. And of course, if Harima will fall in love with her, he will have those thoughts. The thing is that Hanai and others think only in a one way to her. Harima will also think of her as a person with soul and heart, not only lower part of body. Thats the gerat difference i think.

    The confirmation is necessary. It is obvious that she liked Harima before this chapter but she was denying that she liked him to everybody, including herself. Admitting that she likes him was a very big step.
    Maybe, maybe. Though it is not necessary for me to see her admitting the obvious thing. Thpough it may really be important to the plot development.

    I don’t know why you brought up Germany attacking the Soviet Union. World War II had began two years before then, and Germany wasn’t declaring war before they attacked any countries. Germany had invaded several countries near the USSR before then, and planned to take over the whole world eventually. It was inevitable that they’d go after the Soviet Union eventually.
    I brought it up as a comparison, wasn't it obvious? In both cases (Eri's love and Germany attack) there was no need to confirm the fact that war began already since bettles have already started.

    Eri had helped Harima before, but her intentions differ in the events, and they have a different context. It’s important to remember that Eri was the one who shaved in the first place and she had been feeling guilty about it, and had been trying to lighten the mood between them. Consequently, the impact of her sacrifice to get his hat is diminished because she’s basically making up for her previous mistake. The slate is clean between them by Chapter 85, and Eri’s sewing isn’t done to make up for any wrongdoings she’d done before; she does it to try and get closer to Harima. Eri had never done anything with the clear intention of getting closer to Harima before, so it is a turning point for her. As a matter of fact, the title of the chapter is called “The Turning Point.”
    Wow, the power of title is used. I can't fight with that.

    Harima’s feelings for Tenma are reinforced every time he tries to confess to her, as he commits himself further each time, but he’s essentially attempting the same thing each time and the end results have always been the same. His story and feelings would develop considerably more if he actually had success in confessing to her.
    It is developing either way. Harima overcoming his fear, which grows before every confession, this developes his character which automatically develops Odou.

    I think it’s necessary for Yakumo to clearly admit to herself that she likes Harima at some point to give Onigiri a stronger bearing. We don’t need to literally see it happening in a chapter for Yakumo to develop those feelings, but her chances of ever ending up with Harima will be incredibly slim if we don’t see it happening in the story.
    *shrugs* We won't see this happening, her admition of her feelings. KJ will most likely keep her feelings a mystery only talking about them through her actions which always can be interpreted in several ways. Like in ch205 or 206. You will see in them wnat you want, i - what i want.

    The Omiai arc is about Harima helping Eri, not Eri helping Harima. Harima helps Eri develop so that she’s more assertive in taking control of her future, and she’s able to reject her unwanted fiancť thanks to Harima. Hence, Eri acting nice to Harima in the chapter.
    Harima doesn’t gain anything from Eri in the arc; he just gets drop-kicked, so it’s not surprising that he’s rude to Eri in the chapter.
    She helped him greatly when said to Tenma that Harima is not a monkey type of guy - it happened right before the scene under the Christmas Tree occured. So my point makes sense now?
    My point was not that he is just prejudice towards her, which is obvious, but that he is offensive even after she helped him greatly. This is what really is bad.

    Harima thinks Eri is a nuisance before he saw the umbrella written on his desk, and she becomes a much bigger nuisance because he recognizes how whatever they do together can be viewed together from a romantic perspective, and that’s why he starts avoiding her more seriously after the incident. Harima seeing the umbrella raises Eri from being a mere nuisance to the bane of his existence, and he starts reacting much more emotionally to Eri after that.
    Exactly, but this emotion is "What the fuck is that damn Ojou doing here?" not something romantic.

    I brought up Harima noticing Eri as defenceless because it demonstrates he does start noticing Eri in a romantic context, even though he denies having interest in her. It’s the fact that he notices he could take advantage of Eri that’s important. For comparison, Harima has been in compromising positions with Yakumo before, but he never notices them from a romantic perspective because he never thinks of Yakumo in a romantic light. Harima’s tunnel vision makes him ignore women that aren’t Tenma in terms of romance, so it’s big that Eri cracked his tunnel vision enough for him to even consider taking advantage of her helplessness. Tenma and Eri are the only girls he’s looked at from a romantic viewpoint at this point of the series; Tenma positively, and Eri negatively.
    I agree taht Eri breaking tunnels viewpoint is great step, but right after that she said "Harima is the worst" which broke the whole effect. This event ended with waht it has begun, though showed us the possiobility of breaking tunnel viewpoint in the future. But this possibility works not only for Eri, but for anyone as well. The thing that made a hole in a tunnels wall was Eri's nice behaviour, not the fact taht it was Eri herself. Same can work for other girls.

    I brought up this example because I think it’s pretty solid evidence even from a non-biased view, and I find it strange that anyone could see that scene as completely devoid of romance from Harima’s part. It’s one of the few moments Harima thinks anything positive about Eri, and I think the chapter shows that Flag could work out. Most discussions I’ve seen on forums have agreed that the scene develops the Harima side of Flag.
    Yes, it showed that Flag can work, but, as i just said, it leaves such a possibility not only for flag, but for other factions too.

    Ther is a difference between "Oh, she can be a nice person too" and "Oh, how cute she is". If the second line was said i would agree about romance without discussion.

    "She is defenceless now" is said because Harima is surprised taht now Eri looks weak which is rare, since most of time she seems like a string person, who doesn't show hers weakness often. Besides, this weak view was not only born from the blanket part, but from the whole arc - Eri gave up, she can't fight anymore - Harima sees it and he know that is definitely not like Sawachika to behave like that. So he is saying: "She is defenceless now".

    To be honest, I’m not sure why you’re arguing so much against Flag and defending Onigiri since you say that you’re a Flagger. I’m curious as to why you like Flag in the first place.
    I like Flag because i like blondies, nothing more. If i satred to defend Flag then this discussion would die, which will be dissapointing. Besides, some of your arguments are wrong so i'm trieing to show it. For teh sake of truth and pleasure, that is.

  7. #117
    Kolox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    I like Flag because i like blondies, nothing more.
    PURE !! Reinard, you are the true Flag Fan - nothing more pure than that. People who tells how they like her personality and stuff - well, they do like it - but It's not what they were attracted at the beginning - lying to everyone and themselves about what is most important.

    BTW. I like when a girl have short girls or a ponytail. Somehow it turns me on....

  8. #118
    ultraness is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    Of course she will confront them. And of course, if Harima will fall in love with her, he will have those thoughts. The thing is that Hanai and others think only in a one way to her. Harima will also think of her as a person with soul and heart, not only lower part of body. Thatís the great difference I think.
    Itís true that Hanai hasnít developed any maturity in his feelings for Yakumo, but I think thatís mainly because Kobayashi has no intention of getting him and Yakumo together. Scenes with just Hanai and Yakumo are extremely rare, so Kobayashi has never really given Hanai a chance to develop his feelings. Hanai is mature most of the time, so itís not that hard to believe that he could become more mature about Yakumo. I donít think he ever will, though, since I donít think Hanai will succeed with Yakumo.

    I think the most important difference between the two right now is that Hanai is interested in Yakumo right now, while Harima isnít at all. Harima being able to love Yakumo maturely doesnít matter if he doesnít love her.

    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    Maybe, maybe. Though it is not necessary for me to see her admitting the obvious thing. Though it may really be important to the plot development.
    Itís necessary for Eri and the plot, even if itís not for you. Eri was denying to herself that she likes Harima, so she wouldnít be able to consciously pursue him without admitting to herself that she likes him.

    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    I brought it up as a comparison, wasn't it obvious? In both cases (Eri's love and Germany attack) there was no need to confirm the fact that war began already since battles have already started.
    Eri had already shown signs of liking Harima before Chapter 85, but Odou had been considerably more prominent before that chapter. In retrospect, it looks inevitable that Eri would start actively pursuing Harima, but Kobayashi didnít have to

    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    It is developing either way. Harima overcoming his fear, which grows before every confession, this develops his character which automatically develops Odou.
    Iím not arguing that Harima isnít developing; Iím arguing that his development in that chapter is miniscule in comparison to Eriís in the chapter, and that his development doesnít add very much to Odou.

    Odou has always been about Harima trying to confess to Tenma, with Tenma being completely oblivious to Harimaís feelings, and this has never really changed or developed into something more than that.

    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    *shrugs* We won't see this happening, her admission of her feelings. KJ will most likely keep her feelings a mystery only talking about them through her actions which always can be interpreted in several ways. Like in ch205 or 206. You will see in them what you want, I - what I want.
    Well, the mystery behind Yakumoís actions are what makes Onigiri unlikely; itís easier for Kobayashi to pair Eri and Harima together in a happy ending since he can just reveal that Yakumo actually doesnít like Harima, and everyone can be happy. At this point in the story, Eri is still the only one who definitely likes Harima which is what gives her an edge over the other girls.

    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    She helped him greatly when said to Tenma that Harima is not a monkey type of guy - it happened right before the scene under the Christmas Tree occurred. So my point makes sense now?
    My point was not that he is just prejudice towards her, which is obvious, but that he is offensive even after she helped him greatly. This is what really is bad.
    We seem to be on different wavelengths here, and I think thatís why weíre butting heads here. I was talking about Harima being mean to her at the beginning of the chapter, when Eri is trying to be nice to him by having lunch and starting a conversation with him. Then, Eri does help him greatly, as you say, by defending Harima in front of Tenma. However, hereís where your argument loses ground: Harima isnít mean to Eri after she does him that favour; in fact, he acts nice to her and thanks her for what sheís done. Thatís good for Flag.

    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    Exactly, but this emotion is "What the fuck is that damn Ojou doing here?" not something romantic.
    Itís important that he simply has an emotion in regard to Eri, even if itís just because he resents her for getting in the way of Odou. The emotion is negative and unromantic now, but it wouldnít take that much to shift it.

    Guys or girls realizing that the person of the opposite sex they ďhateĒ is the one they really like is pretty common in literature.

    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    I agree that Eri breaking tunnels viewpoint is great step, but right after that she said "Harima is the worst" which broke the whole effect. This event ended with what it has begun, though showed us the possibility of breaking tunnel viewpoint in the future.
    Of course the effect gets broken. Eri canít just destroy Harimaís tunnel in one chapter; thatíd be way too easy, and the path has always been bumpy for Flag.

    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    The thing that made a hole in a tunnels wall was Eri's nice behaviour, not the fact that it was Eri herself. Same can work for other girls.
    Eri acting nice is her true behaviour, so it is Eri acting like her true self that cracks the tunnel vision. Eri acting nice is nothing new: she secretly gets Karasuma to compliment Tenma in Volume 2, she writes a short story to motivate Akira to write the school play, she does the dragon dance with Harima for little kids, and so on. However, Eri being that nice is new to Harima since she puts on an act around him to hide her feelings from him.

    Moreover, this doesnít apply to the other girls; Eri is the only to have an effect on the tunnel vision. Other girls, such as Tae and Yakumo, have also being nice to Harima, but itís never had an effect on him.

    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    There is a difference between "Oh, she can be a nice person too" and "Oh, how cute she is". If the second line was said I would agree about romance without discussion.
    Thatís fine. As a Flag fan, you can just rejoice at Chapter 197 when Harima does call her cute.

    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    "She is defenceless now" is said because Harima is surprised that now Eri looks weak which is rare, since most of time she seems like a strong person, who doesn't show hers weakness often. Besides, this weak view was not only born from the blanket part, but from the whole arc - Eri gave up, she can't fight anymore - Harima sees it and he know that is definitely not like Sawachika to behave like that. So he is saying: "She is defenceless now".
    I think youíre focusing too much on the defenceless part and ignoring what he says after that. He says that heís not interested that sheís defenceless, like heís reassuring himself that he doesnít like her from a romantic viewpoint.

    Quote Originally Posted by reinard-fox View Post
    If I stared to defend Flag then this discussion would die, which will be disappointing. Besides, some of your arguments are wrong so Iím trying to show it. For the sake of truth and pleasure, that is.
    Iím glad youíre keeping the discussion going; itís been fun. I disagree about my arguments being wrong for the most part, though, as anyone can see since I keep on replying to your points.

    For the sake of truth is a noble cause, indeed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolox View Post
    People who tells how they like her personality and stuff - well, they do like it - but It's not what they were attracted at the beginning - lying to everyone and themselves about what is most important.
    I was going to criticize reinard-fox for liking Eri just because sheís hot and go on to say that that I like her because of her archetype, but you spoiled that. So Iíll just say I liked her from the beginning due to her looks, and her character development made me like her considerably more.
    Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you. - Friedrich Nietzsche

  9. #119
    Kolox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    I’m not arguing that Harima isn’t developing; I’m arguing that his development in that chapter is miniscule in comparison to Eri’s in the chapter, and that his development doesn’t add very much to Odou.

    Odou has always been about Harima trying to confess to Tenma, with Tenma being completely oblivious to Harima’s feelings, and this has never really changed or developed into something more than that.
    Odou changed - Tenma is more concious of Harima now. She even invited him for shrimps (a former delinquent - a monkey guy).
    Moreover, she did felt really guilty when she learnt about Harima's manga - she kicked him out oblivious to what he was doinng
    And she actually asked him to help her find a present for Karasuma.
    From "he is from my class" Harima changed in Tenma's eyes as "Good Friend" - and actually that was more or less what Harima was aiming tom he did succed somehow. Normal relationships are born from getting know each other a little better, then starting to going out (and it is the only way to get through Tenma).

    Flag changed, probably more than Odou, but in my opinion just a little more:
    In Eri's eyes : From 'Mr.Nobody' to 'Attracting Guy'
    In Harima's eyes : From "Rich Stupid Spoiled Ojou-sama" to "Actually pretty nice girl... sometimes "

    Onigiri changed a little, I need to agree.
    Yakumo vision : "Nice person - likes animals" --> "....A good MAN "
    Harima vision : "Tenma Imouto - better be nice to her" --> "A perfect example of nice girl"

    ..right know, like always in SR - we are in stale mate. What's next ??
    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    I was going to criticize reinard-fox for liking Eri just because she’s hot and go on to say that that I like her because of her archetype, but you spoiled that. So I’ll just say I liked her from the beginning due to her looks, and her character development made me like her considerably more.
    See At the beggining it's always about the looks. You normally don't hook up the girl which isn't in your taste...
    Last edited by Kolox; 12-22-2006 at 03:01 PM.

  10. #120
    reinard-fox is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultraness View Post
    I think the most important difference between the two right now is that Hanai is interested in Yakumo right now, while Harima isn’t at all. Harima being able to love Yakumo maturely doesn’t matter if he doesn’t love her.
    Just to remind you: we were talking about the possibility of Yakumo starting to disgrace Harima if he would fall in love with her because of his dirty thoughts. Noone doubts that right now he has no interest in him.

    It’s necessary for Eri and the plot, even if it’s not for you. Eri was denying to herself that she likes Harima, so she wouldn’t be able to consciously pursue him without admitting to herself that she likes him.
    I admit that it was necessary for Eri.

    Eri had already shown signs of liking Harima before Chapter 85, but Odou had been considerably more prominent before that chapter. In retrospect, it looks inevitable that Eri would start actively pursuing Harima, but Kobayashi didn’t have to
    I feel that this "didn't have to..." is somehow unfinished. Correct me if i'm wrong.

    I’m not arguing that Harima isn’t developing; I’m arguing that his development in that chapter is miniscule in comparison to Eri’s in the chapter, and that his development doesn’t add very much to Odou.

    Odou has always been about Harima trying to confess to Tenma, with Tenma being completely oblivious to Harima’s feelings, and this has never really changed or developed into something more than that.
    OK,I'll agree.
    Well, the mystery behind Yakumo’s actions are what makes Onigiri unlikely; it’s easier for Kobayashi to pair Eri and Harima together in a happy ending since he can just reveal that Yakumo actually doesn’t like Harima, and everyone can be happy. At this point in the story, Eri is still the only one who definitely likes Harima which is what gives her an edge over the other girls.
    It's hard to make such a happy ending since Harima doesn't care about Eri. And Yakumo's feelings are clear to me, eventhough she still didn't confirmed them officially. Besides, in Rumble world, the easiest way is most likely the wrong one. If Flag ending will be reached the only be riding through curved road.

    We seem to be on different wavelengths here, and I think that’s why we’re butting heads here. I was talking about Harima being mean to her at the beginning of the chapter, when Eri is trying to be nice to him by having lunch and starting a conversation with him. Then, Eri does help him greatly, as you say, by defending Harima in front of Tenma. However, here’s where your argument loses ground: Harima isn’t mean to Eri after she does him that favour; in fact, he acts nice to her and thanks her for what she’s done. That’s good for Flag.
    Yes, Harima is not mean (I said it in the first place, you seem to have forgotten). Eri si mean to him: she askes why he thanked her, he doesn't want to answer, so she startes to attack him, which, of couse, irritates Harima. => potential romance killed. And Flag effect whipped out.

    It’s important that he simply has an emotion in regard to Eri, even if it’s just because he resents her for getting in the way of Odou. The emotion is negative and unromantic now, but it wouldn’t take that much to shift it.

    Guys or girls realizing that the person of the opposite sex they “hate” is the one they really like is pretty common in literature.
    You are right it is possible and common. Thpugh it doesn't mean that School Rumble will necessarily bercome an example of such plot development.

    Eri acting nice is her true behaviour, so it is Eri acting like her true self that cracks the tunnel vision. Eri acting nice is nothing new: she secretly gets Karasuma to compliment Tenma in Volume 2, she writes a short story to motivate Akira to write the school play, she does the dragon dance with Harima for little kids, and so on. However, Eri being that nice is new to Harima since she puts on an act around him to hide her feelings from him.
    Yes, nice behaviour (secretly in most cases) iis noraml for her. And yes it is new for Harima.

    Moreover, this doesn’t apply to the other girls; Eri is the only to have an effect on the tunnel vision. Other girls, such as Tae and Yakumo, have also being nice to Harima, but it’s never had an effect on him.
    Just like you said, it is because nice behaviour from Eri was totally unexp[ected. For Yakumo and Tae something else is needed. If this something would be found that may have a tunnel-breaking effect as well. The question is if KJ will make such a scene or not. Only future can answer. But for now the only tunnel-breaker is Eri, no doubts.

    That’s fine. As a Flag fan, you can just rejoice at Chapter 197 when Harima does call her cute.
    Hey, thats 50 chapters later! Don't cheat. Event that occured 50 chapters later has nothing to do with situation that went on earlier. If we were summorising the whole Flag development here, then yes, we could say that, but now we are annalising only the situation in the abandoned temple. Back then he haven't said that she is cute. He just thought she is defenceless. Which has a great difference.

    I think you’re focusing too much on the defenceless part and ignoring what he says after that. He says that he’s not interested that she’s defenceless, like he’s reassuring himself that he doesn’t like her from a romantic viewpoint.
    "I can fuck her; i don't want to though." How damn romantic!

 

 
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