Thread: Gatekeeper of the Hekatoncheires

Originally Posted by Reigon

Sanada is weak. (okay not really weak but not national-level) His strenght (without FuuRinKaZan) is at the same level as Ryoma (without SOSA) or maybe a little bit above (okay maybe a little bit below considering Cool Drive, Ryoma Zone and Drive C). With FuuRinKaZan he is one level below the current Atobe and Ryoma with SOSA. So unless he really has an hidden ace up his sleeve he is definetly far weaker than Fuji (not considering that FuuRinKaZan is useless against Fuji, since he has no concrete playstyle). I also think that Shiraishi is using a changing playstyle so no FuuRinKaZan against him too (he is no power,data or insight player and he also has nothing in common with Ryoma's playstyle).

Sanada is thought to be a strong player because he destroys his enemy's playstyle if he can, if not he need's to depend on SOSA, so against players like Fuji he is about as strong as Kirihara (and Fuji defeated him being blind...)

You are obviously suffering from Down Syndrome because some of the things you say has no mental backup what-so-ever.

1- "Sanada is weak" (you are retarded)
2- "He is not at National level" (again, you are retarded)
3- "He is about as strong as Kirihara" (once again, you are retarded)

Thats All I have to say to you.

-Now on to somebody who actually doesn't blurt out mindless thoughts.

@Fayte: So... Fuji had nothing else left, huh? What about his Triple Counters 2.0? None of them were returned by Shiraishi, either. The only difference in the Triple Counters 2.0 and the Gatekeeper of Hekatoncheires would be that you [he] could use the gatekeeper whenever he wanted [off a serve, forehand, etc.].

In a serious match, I doubt Atobe would have done as well as to have beaten Sanada. Granted, the only evidence we have of Atobe's victory would be Yukimura's proclamation, but Sanada stopped trying to superpwn Atobe and turned it into a stamina war just to tire him out and beat him in every possible way [actual match, tire him out, technique, etc.]. If he had use all four Fuu Rin Ka Zan [cause he only used one against Atobe... showing he thought Ryoma was stronger], Muga, and any other tricks he knew, then the result may have gone the other way.

Being you are actually asking me, and not acting like you know everything and being wrong (like Reigon) I will tell you. Fuji doesn't use his other counters simply because he can't. The reason he can't, because Shiraishi doesn't let him. You need to remember that he can't use his counters if he doesn't have the requirements for that counter.

For example:

Higuma Otoshi ----> Requires a Smash
Tsubame Gaishi ---> Requires a Topspin
Hakugei ---> Requires wind in the opposite direction

Shiraishi didn't hit these type of returns to Fuji after he did his counters, hence sealing off his techniques except GKoH.

-And about Atobe and Sanada. Atobe was playing his best. Atobe needed to pass his limits to learn World of Ice. And to pass your limits, you need to be at your limit.

We didn't see the entire fight with Atobe and Sanada, but you can be sure he didn't use SoSA, and he probably used 2 or more of his FuuRinKaZan. Also, if you go back to the Atobe v Ryoma match, you can tell Atobe didn't even go all out against Tezuka. He wanted to break Tezuka, winning seemed to come second, which is kind of strange when it comes to Atobe. Sure Atobe had 2 new moves against Ryoma, but Ryoma pushed him to use his attack style tennis, which is better than his normal defensive style against very strong opponents. He didn't use his attack style against Tezuka, and he probably didn't use it against Sanada either. Also, Atobe used Higuma Otoshi against Ryoma's SoSA Invade like Fire. Of course he could probably only do this as Ryoma is physically weak than Sanada, but he might be able to pull it off against Sanada. I am not stating that Atobe is stronger than Sanada as a fact; just saying this is what I think.

I also think Hakugei requires a topspin. Fuji "could" do a reverse spin Tsubame Gaishi, but I think that requires an insane amount of backspin. Atobe is normally defensive and so is Fuji, but then they switch when they were in very important matches. And is Fuji has 2.0 Counters; I have a feeling he can do disappearing server 2.0 later on. Over head Disappearing server =), sounds like pwnage to me.

Fayte, ther are a few things I want to say to you/ get your reaction to (you say some pretty interesting things, after all):
-Atobe definetly surpassed Sanada with his World of Ice. Even if Sanada was just fooling around when Atobe used World of Ice, Yukimura, perhaps the only person to Know Sanada's full strength, said that Sanada would lose.
-I don't see why a match-up between Fuji and Sanada would be one sided with Sanada winning. Sure, Fuji's counters requires specific conditions and Sanada's don't. But, Fuji's counter types complement Sanada's counter types surprisingly well. Though we haven't seen Sanada's full power, we probably still haven't seen Fuji's full power either. Also, Sanada's strenght is his FuuRinKaZan, which is SoSa based. Fuji, despite being blind, managed to beat someone using SoSa(Kirihara). Though Kirihara (at the time of his match with Fuji) wasn't comparable to Sanada, the mere fact that he was able to beat him in SoSa is amazing. Both Fuji and Sanada have a kind of wild-card factor to themselves- Sanada's power and true strength is unknown and Fuji constantly improves quickly.
As far as we know, Fuji may develop another unique set of counters for Sanada or hit SoSA for himself, at which point he really would either pone Sanada or at least be a sweet match-up for him.
- Earlier you said that if Fuji couldn't beat Tezuka or Shiraishi, he stood no chance against Sanada. My first question is how can you be so certain that Tezuka and Shiraish are weaker than Sanada? I'll be willing to say that Shiraishi is weaker than Sanada, but in this match Fuji made the first real transformation to put him in the same class as Tezuka or Atobe or the other superplayers. Also, Fuji made this transformation really late into his game with Shiraishi, losing 5 games before transforming. I would be willing to say that Fuji could surpass Shiraishi if their last game came a little earlier in the match. Aside from the Fuji/Shiraishi match, all we know of Tezuka's relationship with RikkaiDai is that HE WON when he played his opponent from RikkaiDai (because Akaya says this when he accidentlaly gets of at Saigaku). I get the impression that Tezuka is better than Sanada because he is better than Atobe, and Atobe is better than Sanada.

Quote from Fayte :
You are obviously suffering from Down Syndrome because some of the things you say has no mental backup what-so-ever.

Can we please not insult each other please?

Originally Posted by Fayte

Fuji doesn't use his other counters simply because he can't. The reason he can't, because Shiraishi doesn't let him. You need to remember that he can't use his counters if he doesn't have the requirements for that counter.

For example:

Higuma Otoshi ----> Requires a Smash
Tsubame Gaishi ---> Requires a Topspin
Hakugei ---> Requires wind in the opposite direction

Shiraishi didn't hit these type of returns to Fuji after he did his counters, hence sealing off his techniques except GKoH.

and how do you know that Shiraishi didn't hit those type of returns ?? from where could you have some conclusion like that ?? as far as i know.. it never stated in the manga, someone said like 'mann.. Fuji cannot hit his evolved triple counters because Shiraishi sealed it'

and GKOH is a super spin shot (see chapter 320.. when Shiraishi said 'a spin.. i need more spin to cancel out his spin') if.. Shiraishi never hit a topspin shot.. but Fuji still able to create GKOH (which has more spin than tsubamegaeshi or phoenix return).. Fuji should also be able to hit tsubame/phoenix as well..

1)Okay as Renji said: Sanada uses FuuRinKaZan when he's droven into a corner
So: Sanada(without FuuRinKaZan) is weaker than Renji, who is as strong as Inui, who is weaker than Fuji (and Tezuka,Atobe,Shiraishi and Yukimura?)

2)FuuRinKaZan's four moves are just useful against one playstyle each, e.g.:
Against Atobe Mountain is very useful, but Wind,Fire and Forest aren't. Okay Sanada might get a few points with the other 3 moves, but for Atobe they are far easier to counter (same for the other players, exept Ryoma). It's not like Sanada is holding back, but FuuRinKaZan is like that: direct challenge with one move (Inui said it)

So the question is: Can any of the FuuRinKaZan moves be useful against Fuji or Shiraishi? And that I really doubt. Fuji playstyle is countering, which as it is is hard to crush. Shiraishi's playstyle is a little bit weird but I don't see any connection to other players playstyles.

Originally Posted by Urameshi-sama

Fayte, ther are a few things I want to say to you/ get your reaction to (you say some pretty interesting things, after all):
-Atobe definetly surpassed Sanada with his World of Ice. Even if Sanada was just fooling around when Atobe used World of Ice, Yukimura, perhaps the only person to Know Sanada's full strength, said that Sanada would lose.
-I don't see why a match-up between Fuji and Sanada would be one sided with Sanada winning. Sure, Fuji's counters requires specific conditions and Sanada's don't. But, Fuji's counter types complement Sanada's counter types surprisingly well. Though we haven't seen Sanada's full power, we probably still haven't seen Fuji's full power either. Also, Sanada's strenght is his FuuRinKaZan, which is SoSa based. Fuji, despite being blind, managed to beat someone using SoSa(Kirihara). Though Kirihara (at the time of his match with Fuji) wasn't comparable to Sanada, the mere fact that he was able to beat him in SoSa is amazing. Both Fuji and Sanada have a kind of wild-card factor to themselves- Sanada's power and true strength is unknown and Fuji constantly improves quickly.
As far as we know, Fuji may develop another unique set of counters for Sanada or hit SoSA for himself, at which point he really would either pone Sanada or at least be a sweet match-up for him.
- Earlier you said that if Fuji couldn't beat Tezuka or Shiraishi, he stood no chance against Sanada. My first question is how can you be so certain that Tezuka and Shiraish are weaker than Sanada? I'll be willing to say that Shiraishi is weaker than Sanada, but in this match Fuji made the first real transformation to put him in the same class as Tezuka or Atobe or the other superplayers. Also, Fuji made this transformation really late into his game with Shiraishi, losing 5 games before transforming. I would be willing to say that Fuji could surpass Shiraishi if their last game came a little earlier in the match. Aside from the Fuji/Shiraishi match, all we know of Tezuka's relationship with RikkaiDai is that HE WON when he played his opponent from RikkaiDai (because Akaya says this when he accidentlaly gets of at Saigaku). I get the impression that Tezuka is better than Sanada because he is better than Atobe, and Atobe is better than Sanada.

Alright, what you said is good. The reason I put Sanada above those people is because I am looking at this anime at the "writers point of view".

For example, In the Kantou tournament, It is safe to say Sanada was the strongest at that time. He was the biggest challenge out of every other opponent. He was also the last match in that tournament, which means that team as a whole (rikkaidai)has a higher percent of skill than every other team.

If Sanada had his FuuRinKaZa in the Kantou Tournament, That is not going to be his "main attraction" in the Nationals. He will have developed further.

You see, you are comparing people which have already shown how they improved in the Nationals, to the Sanada you saw in the Kantou tournament, not to the Sanada in the Nationals, who has not shown what he is capable of yet. Being that Rikkaidai is once again, Seigakus last Challenge, Rikkaidai is once again, better than the rest.

A writer usually has the "save the best for last" method. Being the writer hasn't shown us 1 match of Rikkaidai, I am going to guess it will be quite the show when we see it.

-For everybody: If Atobe used a technique that could possibly defeat Sanada before the nationals, and Sanada KNOWS THIS, Do you honestly think that Sanada would bring that weakness to the Nationals? No. He has already figured out a way to counter it. Remember, Sanada is known for having no weaknesses.

is it me or did fuji say the the first gate of GKOH whatever technique in a chapter meaning there's more then one part of that technique.

Originally Posted by _baka_

is it me or did fuji say the the first gate of GKOH whatever technique in a chapter meaning there's more then one part of that technique.

No, it says "The first cry of the final counter". Which just means its the first time he used it, and there is more times to come.

Lol yeah. I agree with Fayte. If you compare the national level players to their past selves... it's kinda onesided in the sense that everyone's developed. Natonial Atobe beat Serious Sanada, but who's to say that he'd be able to beat National Sanada?

If you've played Star Ocean III (til the end of time) Director's Cut you'll kinda understand their new names...

The only person who's really stayed the same is Ryoma... well, him and Oishi. Nature Momo has an understanding over the weather and whatnot (like Nami in One Piece... before the Grand Line). Stronger Taka has... gotten stronger. Energized Eiji has more energy. Super Tachibana has his former (and totally kick ass) abilities back.

At the least, Sanada at the nationals, who will be dubbed Ultra Sanada, will unleash his Muga sooner than match game, used all four Fuu Rin Ka Zan (which Renji only says he uses in a corner... for all we know it's just because he's a lazy bitch sometimes), or maybe taken his weights out (yes, he said he did, but does that mean he did?? I dun think so.). And we also have to wait and see what Ultra Sanada can do.

Yukimura would = Freya... cause you don't know ANYTHING about him/ her until right before they become the combatants. Freya's the final boss in Star Ocean III... and a character in Valkyrie Profile.