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  1. #101
    Shanghai Kid is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    I can understand why people would put Shiraishi above Fuji. Ultimately... it comes down to who has the better record. And Shiraishi is 1 win and 0 losses when fighting Fuji.

    Saying that Fuji lost to Shiraishi because Konomi didn't want to Fuji to win is pointless. Fuji beat Kirihara because Konomi wanted Fuji to win. This is the same with all of the matches in PoT. Konomi decides who wins and loses.

    It's difficult to ascertain the exact numbered ranking as there are a number of matchups that have not happened and probably never will. Using a tier system is a lot easier then an exact ranking.

    1st tier: Echizen.
    2nd tier: Yukimura (predicted), Tezuka, Kentarou (predicted), Chitose, Atobe
    3rd tier: Sanada, Shiraishi, Fuji
    4th tier: Kirihara, Tachibana, Oshitari (bit of a stretch, but I'll put him here)

  2. #102
    Fayte is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    @Sylent_Viper: You are missing the point. Shiraishi developed a counter attack to the GKH. Fuji did come back from a 5-0, however, Even if he used his counter right off the bat, the outcome of this match would not have changed. Shiraishi got used to his counters and he countered them. You need to understand that no matter what Fuji does, Shiraishi will find a way to defeat it. This is why Fuji will not beat Shiraishi. Just because he won 5 games in a row, doesn't mean shiraishi isn't turning the game around at a slow pace.


  3. #103
    Sylent_Viper is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Fayte: The reason why Shiraishi managed to break GKoH was because Fuji used it for 5 games in a row. This stubborn conduct made Fuji lose. I'm talking about potential here. If Fuji had used all his potential instead of using only one technique, Shiraishi wouldn't have gotten the momentum of the move. Alternating all his improved counters with his ultimate counter, and his serious style of play would have certainly beaten Shiraishi, who found his "perfect tennis" disabled once fuji awakened, and couldn't react to Hohou Gaeshi, Kirin Otoshi, or Hakuryuu. Shiraishi's potential isn't as high as Fuji's which is virtually limitless.

    Shanghai Kid: I just don't like your way of labeling people. I think the win records are subjected to the circumstances of the game. Tezuka couldn't win Atobe because he had his injury, and Fuji couldn't win Shiraishi because he had a perfect record. I think the most appropriate way of determining these guys' strenght is by taking a look at their potential, and forgeting their existent labels.

  4. #104
    Shiraishi_Kuranosuke is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    I think that Fuji and Shiraishi are in the same level because both of them can adapt to difficult situations.
    Fuji is able to create new techniques and Shiraishi is able to find the way to counter techniques.
    If they have another match i don´t know what would happen.
    Shiraishi can win because he only need to find a way to devolve the evolved counters and if he is able to break the last counter why he wouldn´t be able to break the other ones.
    But fuji is always evolving, so he can do something new and defeat him.
    Because of this i´m not sure who is better or who would win in a rematch
    Last edited by Shiraishi_Kuranosuke; 11-05-2006 at 12:47 PM.

  5. #105
    Shanghai Kid is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylent_Viper View Post
    Fayte: The reason why Shiraishi managed to break GKoH was because Fuji used it for 5 games in a row. This stubborn conduct made Fuji lose.
    Exactly. Fuji's stubborness is a weakness. Shiraishi exploited that weakness and thus won the match.

    I'm talking about potential here. If Fuji had used all his potential instead of using only one technique, Shiraishi wouldn't have gotten the momentum of the move. Alternating all his improved counters with his ultimate counter, and his serious style of play would have certainly beaten Shiraishi, who found his "perfect tennis" disabled once fuji awakened, and couldn't react to Hohou Gaeshi, Kirin Otoshi, or Hakuryuu. Shiraishi's potential isn't as high as Fuji's which is virtually limitless.
    Arguing about potentials is a moot point. You talk about all the things Fuji could have done potentially... but you forget that Shiraishi could have potentially countered them as well. It would be pointless. The only thing we can go by is what actually happened.

    Shanghai Kid: I just don't like your way of labeling people. I think the win records are subjected to the circumstances of the game.
    And character potentials are subjective to the reader. IMO it's better to look at something more concrete then something more speculative.

    Tezuka couldn't win Atobe because he had his injury,
    Agreed. Atobe exploited Tezuka's weakness and won the match.

    Fuji couldn't win Shiraishi because he had a perfect record.
    Disagree. Nowhere in the POT manga did it state that Fuji lost because he had a perfect official singles record. Kaidoh, Inui and Kikumaru all have perfect records in official singles matches as well. Shiraishi exploited Fuji's weakness. That was shown in the POT manga.

    I think the most appropriate way of determining these guys' strenght is by taking a look at their potential, and forgeting their existent labels.
    I think the most appropriate way in determining these guy's strength is by looking at information that was shown in the POT universe rather then on speculative data.
    Last edited by Shanghai Kid; 11-05-2006 at 04:57 PM.

  6. #106
    Fayte is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    I agree with shanghai on that. You can't just assume things that just isn't even shown. No matter how much Fuji "Changes", the outcome of the match with Shiraishi will turn out the same way.


  7. #107
    renzenkuken is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sylent_Viper View Post
    Tezuka couldn't win Atobe because he had his injury, and Fuji couldn't win Shiraishi because he had a perfect record. I think the most appropriate way of determining these guys' strenght is by taking a look at their potential, and forgeting their existent labels.
    true, tezuka lost because of his injury. but you cant determine strength by pure potential alone... shirashi is better than fuji, thats why HE WON, not because fuji was stubborn by using GoH for 5 games straight but because shirashi is the better player.

    what your saying is that echizen is better than tezuka... even though echizen looses to tezuka when he plays him (exclude the anime match) echizen will probably beat tezuka one day... echizens "potential" is far beyond tezuka and what we all think (he is the main character after all)
    well here it is... echizen is not better than tezuka and fuji is not better than shirashi... fuji has more potential but in that match shirashi was the better player (phew im done)

  8. #108
    Fayte is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by renzenkuken View Post
    true, tezuka lost because of his injury. but you cant determine strength by pure potential alone... shirashi is better than fuji, thats why HE WON, not because fuji was stubborn by using GoH for 5 games straight but because shirashi is the better player.

    what your saying is that echizen is better than tezuka... even though echizen looses to tezuka when he plays him (exclude the anime match) echizen will probably beat tezuka one day... echizens "potential" is far beyond tezuka and what we all think (he is the main character after all)
    well here it is... echizen is not better than tezuka and fuji is not better than shirashi... fuji has more potential but in that match shirashi was the better player (phew im done)
    Well said.


  9. #109
    kagerou_zutsumi is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by renzenkuken View Post
    shirashi is better than fuji, thats why HE WON, not because fuji was stubborn by using GoH for 5 games straight but because shirashi is the better player.
    I beg to disagree. I believe that both players are on equal footing. We all saw that it was a tight, see-saw match. Not a one-sided one. It does not mean that because Shiraishi won, he's a better player than Fuji. It's just that in a match, someone just have to win. Shiraishi and Fuji know this. You can see what I mean in Shiraishi's face if you look at the first two pages of Genius 322. That's the part where Kenya said "The one who won is the winner."
    Last edited by kagerou_zutsumi; 11-05-2006 at 08:41 PM.

  10. #110
    Shanghai Kid is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Quote Originally Posted by kagerou_zutsumi View Post
    It does not mean that because Shiraishi won, he's a better player than Fuji.
    Sure it does. Echizen beat Ibu. Echizen performed better in the match against Ibu. Shiraishi beat Fuji. Shiraishi performed better in the match against Fuji.

 

 
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