Thread: Naruto Chp 587 Discussion/588 Predictions

I realise something else i think people simply missed as they read. Itachi said he used that mind controling MS jutsu on Sasuke.
Ignoring the fact that is was supposedly only useable every 10 years and the massacre was 8 years ago. This means that everything Sasuke has done up till this point is the result of mind control. Sasuke's emo avenger attitude is because of Itachi screwing with his mind. Then Tobi revealing the truth overlapping with this will probably be the excuse that lets Sasuke be forgiven.

@hellfire: Itachi intended to use the jutsu on Sasuke, he implanted it on Naruto so that the "crow" would react to Itachi's MS.
(Un)fortunately, the jutsu activated on Itachi (freeing him from edo tensei control) instead of Sasuke.
So Itachi went as far as to plan to brainwash his brother, hence his statement, but he simply failed.

@Catkiller: Izanagi and Izanami are NOT MS techniques, and thus every well-trained Uchiha with three tomoes would be able to use it. Itachi spoke about a time where Uchihas followers were numerous.
Fodder Uchiha nins would sacrifice themselves or their eyesight for their leaders and for their victory. That's pretty what I interpret from the panels
No wonder why the Uchihas were on par with the Senju!
So yeah, basically, it's very likely that Izanami was used the same way Danzou used Izanagi, spamming and spamming again.

can somebody explain to me izanami izanagi role in a simple way please... the one on the chapter is quite confusing

http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/71160243/13 Read it though. Itachi says he used it on him and lead him to being controled. He is speaking past tense and that he used it and not was going to use it. So yes. He did cast that thing on Sasuke unless it is another translation error.

As for the whole Izanagi spamming thing. It makes no sense for two reasons. One you can not spam Izanagi because it causes you to lose your eye. Unless they found a way to use Izanagi to restore the eye. More importantly though.
Izanagi can not be used without senju cells. So unless all these Uchiha went out for Senju blood transfusions or something.
There is no reason random Uchiha should have the ability to use Izanagi at all.

i dont think u can spam izanagi. u can only use it twice. and yes, only with senju cell u can use it. why senju? we don't know.

and we know that only danzou can spam izanagi.

Double Post vvv

Originally Posted by ivanov_2020

can somebody explain to me izanami izanagi role in a simple way please... the one on the chapter is quite confusing

The only way I interpreted it's role, and the only way I care to make sense of the crap, was that where Izanagi is used to make achieving the impossible possible by escaping one's ultimate fate, Izanami could be used as a counter for that by making the user of Izanagi be trapped in a loop of the situation they are trying to evade... but it only works against users who, apparently, have dis-ingeniousness goals or motives.

So for instance we had Sasuke fight Danzou in a sharingan battle where Danzou spammed the living baby Jesus out of Izanagi. At one time in the battle when Sasuke fired his Susanno arrow at Danzou and impaled him one moment then saw Danzou evading it, somehow, and continued running at him from another angle, in knowing that he had used Izanagi to evade it that would've been an opportunity for Sasuke to use Izanami on him so that Danzou would've been stuck in a loop where he would be getting impaled by Sasuke's Susanno arrow over and over instead of evading his fate, of dying by it, with Izanagi. Thats pretty much the only example of how I could see Izanagi and Izanami's relationship at play. Also, chances are though if Sasuke could have used Izanami in such a way against Danzou, technically, it would not have worked though because, unlike Kabuto, Danzou's motivation for fighting was steadfast and genuinely his own.

Another aspect of note, which Kishi illustrated with the first diagram, was that unlike a typical genjutsu that requires full eye contact (?) Izanami works by using the Sharingan's ability to memorize/ record body movements, think sasuke memorizing rock lee's movements. It starts with an original movement, then crops and inserts that same movement to a different ending position in time then uses the environment to somehow fill in the details in-between, thus a loop is created (Movie Editor Style).


What I really dont get is the diagram where Itachi is talking about the X and O paths because it seems to imply that a singular person chooses the favorable "O" path more than twice.... which would be impossible since a typical Uchiha should only have 2 eyes, at which point the said Uchiha would be blind..... unless he's trying to say thats the cycle with at least 2 Uchihas fighting and using Izanagi until one decides to use Izanami (to trap the other one in a loop that he cant escape until he realizes his faith). Which would also imply that they both would lose both their eyes as well? Yea, that last diagram didn't make much sense to me either unless it applied to Danzou... in which case he MIGHT have indeed been trapped in Izanami since he OBVIOUSLY didn't accept the fact that he kept on dying at sasuke's hands over and over and over!!!

Originally Posted by hellfire86

More importantly though. Izanagi can not be used without senju cells. So unless all these Uchiha went out for Senju blood transfusions or something.
There is no reason random Uchiha should have the ability to use Izanagi at all.

Very good point Hell!! In reading over the different translation Mangashare's version talks about the gratuitous use of Izanagi in the past tense (as if to say a lot of Uchiha used it and became arrogant because they knew they had such a power) versus mangastream's dialogue about Izanagi's potential use in a figurative sense! Which is a big "lost in translation" deal because Izanagi is not an eye jutsu any regular ole Uchiha should be able to pick up and do just like that.



Irregardless of all the spur of the moment logic gate statements Kishi tried to use to tie this shit up, I didn't like this chapter at all and found it rather pedantic and tedious to follow. Also, for those of you who are confused, as you rightfully should be, Itachi should have said to sasuke "I went as far as PLANNING on even using the Kotoamatsukami on you" rather than "I went as far as USING the Kotoamatsukami Eye Jutsu on you". Naruto did not get the chance to face sasuke and use it on him... but before it was used on Itachi it was Itachi's goal for it to be used as a means to control Sasuke, which he now regrets.

maybe ITACHI did use Kotoamatsukami on Sasuke when he slaughter the whole uciha clan. wasn't 10 years ago? maybe his genjustu was.....GET STRONGER. it is not yet said in the manga, but it does make sense and possible.

Originally Posted by krazykwasi

The only way I interpreted it's role, and the only way I care to make sense of the crap, was that where Izanagi is used to make achieving the impossible possible by escaping one's ultimate fate, Izanami could be used as a counter for that by making the user of Izanagi be trapped in a loop of the situation they are trying to evade... but it only works against users who, apparently, have dis-ingeniousness goals or motives.

So for instance we had Sasuke fight Danzou in a sharingan battle where Danzou spammed the living baby Jesus out of Izanagi. At one time in the battle when Sasuke fired his Susanno arrow at Danzou and impaled him one moment then saw Danzou evading it, somehow, and continued running at him from another angle, in knowing that he had used Izanagi to evade it that would've been an opportunity for Sasuke to use Izanami on him so that Danzou would've been stuck in a loop where he would be getting impaled by Sasuke's Susanno arrow over and over instead of evading his fate, of dying by it, with Izanagi. Thats pretty much the only example of how I could see Izanagi and Izanami's relationship at play. Also, chances are though if Sasuke could have used Izanami in such a way against Danzou, technically, it would not have worked though because, unlike Kabuto, Danzou's motivation for fighting was steadfast and genuinely his own.

Another aspect of note, which Kishi illustrated with the first diagram, was that unlike a typical genjutsu that requires full eye contact (?) Izanami works by using the Sharingan's ability to memorize/ record body movements, think sasuke memorizing rock lee's movements. It starts with an original movement, then crops and inserts that same movement to a different ending position in time then uses the environment to somehow fill in the details in-between, thus a loop is created (Movie Editor Style).


What I really dont get is the diagram where Itachi is talking about the X and O paths because it seems to imply that a singular person chooses the favorable "O" path more than twice.... which would be impossible since a typical Uchiha should only have 2 eyes, at which point the said Uchiha would be blind..... unless he's trying to say thats the cycle with at least 2 Uchihas fighting and using Izanagi until one decides to use Izanami (to trap the other one in a loop that he cant escape until he realizes his faith). Which would also imply that they both would lose both their eyes as well? Yea, that last diagram didn't make much sense to me either unless it applied to Danzou... in which case he MIGHT have indeed been trapped in Izanami since he OBVIOUSLY didn't accept the fact that he kept on dying at sasuke's hands over and over and over!!!



Very good point Hell!! In reading over the different translation Mangashare's version talks about the gratuitous use of Izanagi in the past tense (as if to say a lot of Uchiha used it and became arrogant because they knew they had such a power) versus mangastream's dialogue about Izanagi's potential use in a figurative sense! Which is a big "lost in translation" deal because Izanagi is not an eye jutsu any regular ole Uchiha should be able to pick up and do just like that.



Irregardless of all the spur of the moment logic gate statements Kishi tried to use to tie this shit up, I didn't like this chapter at all and found it rather pedantic and tedious to follow. Also, for those of you who are confused, as you rightfully should be, Itachi should have said to sasuke "I went as far as PLANNING on even using the Kotoamatsukami on you" rather than "I went as far as USING the Kotoamatsukami Eye Jutsu on you". Naruto did not get the chance to face sasuke and use it on him... but before it was used on Itachi it was Itachi's goal for it to be used as a means to control Sasuke, which he now regrets.

Chronologically that could make sense Cat, it will certainly validate Sasuke's surge for power and provide Kishi with the scapegoat needed to start having Sasuke absolved of his crimes and general douche-baggery. That will kinda cheapen Sasuke's imagine for a lot of people though because if that is indeed made the case, and Sasuke's sole motivation in life would have been as a direct result of one of the most powerful persuasive GenJutsus in Uchiha history, then that would mean Sasuke has been a puppet from the start with no determination of his own? Just a revelation like that might further mindf**k our dear emo Uchiha.... but hey, for those who would like to see Sasuke turn back to the light thats what I might take.

That was basicly what i said. I also thought about Izanami and how it is even stupider. Izanagi atleast had a reason behind it, As it was the jutsu which made the bijuu in the first place. But Izanami was literally made for the sole purpose of teaching other Uchiha a lesson. So to punish someone for using a jutsu that makes you blind and gives you some control over fate. You make a jutsu that also blinds you just to teach them a lesson. That is like spanking your kid but chopping off one your hands in the process. Way too extreme for something of that purpose.