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  1. #1
    Arcane Azmadi is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Default The Great Naruto Retcon.

    Naruto as we know it is a lie.

    Wow, talk about your confronting, controversial and easily-misunderstood opening statements.

    But what I mean is that the series we are reading now is NOT the series Masashi Kishimoto originally planned on writing. I have no idea what he DID plan originally, or even if he HAD a plan for the long term, but the current ninja war over the bijuu and Madara's 'Moon's Eye Plan' is not it.

    The shift happened after the timeship, although Kishimoto may have committed to the change of direction beforehand (maybe as early as the Tsunade arc, with the first appearance of Itachi and Kisame). This led to a massive, but surprisingly subtle, retcon to incorporate plot elements that simply did not exist before, or even contradicted earlier ones.

    This is hardly unknown. Dragonball Z contradicted itself so many times that you could just shrug your shoulders and say "eh, whatever" every time Akira Toriyama rewrote half the backstory (anyone remember that the Saiyan's were originally equal partners of a race called the Arcosians who used them to conquer planets for resale, rather than oppressed and overshadowed flunkies of galactic overlord Frieza?). But Naruto takes itself rather more seriously, while DBZ goes completely over the top with every story arc, so while not as obvious, the retcons in Naruto are rather more jarring. Not that this thread is a criticism of the series, but I thought the retcon made for an interesting discussion point.

    So let's break it down into the 2 key points for examination. Before the retcon:
    1) the bijuu "series" and the concept of "jinchuuriki" did not exist.
    2) Uchiha Madara and Akatsuki were not intended to be the main villain of the series.

    1) The concept of "jinchuuriki" and the series of 9 "tailed beasts" was invented late into the story.

    This one is actually surprisingly obvious. The current perception of the "bijuu" is that they are ninja weapons, used to create jinchuuriki and a disliked but accepted convention of the world of ninja. There are a series of 9 of them with differing numbers of tails relating to their power and they are all actually parts of a greater "10-tailed beast" that was sealed into the moon by the Sage of 6 Paths. The jinchuuriki of the Kyuubi before Naruto was his mother, Kushina.

    This is obviously not how things were at the beginning of the story. The Kyuubi no Kitsune was a single powerful rogue demon which was imprisoned inside Naruto as an act of desperation by the 4th Hokage because it couldn't be killed. The Shukaku of the Sand sealed inside Gaara was NOT in any way related to the Kyuubi and was not even really a "demon" in the classical sense. And there sure as hell wasn't a full "series" of them.

    Let's look at the evidence from the story pre-timeskip. The later story would have you believe that jinchuuriki are common and normal (for a given value of "normal") for ninja villages. People don't like or trust them and usually shun or even abuse them, but they're not some dark secret.

    Now, if that were the case, why did the 3rd Hokage go to such lengths to make sure that no-one, not even Naruto himself, knew about the Kyuubi inside of him? Why, even once he was aware of its existence, did no-one ever take steps to teach him his role as a jinchuuriki or how to use the Kyuubi's power (not until Jiraiya taught him to start tapping the Kyuubi's chakra in chapter 91)? The word "jinchuuriki" wasn't even mentioned until after the timeskip and any time Naruto tapped the Kyuubi's power was treated with suspicion and fear rather than, y'know, what he should be doing.

    Then there's Gaara, and here is the most obvious proof of the retcon. Once the timeskip had happened, the first arc revolved around Akatsuki kidnapping him to extract his "one-tailed beast". This was the first time it was stated that the Shukaku inside Gaara was the same kind of beast as the Kyuubi, while previously Gaara had been meant to be a foil for Naruto, his dark mirror rather than being literally the same as him. In chapter 97, Gaara blatantly explains the history of the Shukaku and himself- it was an incarnation of the sand itself, the living spirit of a Hidden Sand priest that had been sealed in a kettle. Naruto's realisation that "He's the same as me" was only meant to go as far as their backgrounds of isolation and loneliness because of the monsters sealed inside them, no more. Additionally, the nature of the Shukaku and its powers are TOTALLY different from the Kyuubi or ANY of the other bijuu introduced afterwards. It didn't give Gaara access to its massive chakra or have any form of chakra shroud. It gave him elemental control over sand and access to a number of sand "techniques", and it could create a giant sand simulacrum, totally different from the released form of the bijuu which transform the body of the host (while Gaara remained embedded in the forehead of the giant sand body). Gaara was also created as a "secret weapon" by a ritual which bound Shukaku to his body in his mother's womb, killing her. This was also seen as a radical and possibly forbidden experiment (which was considered to have FAILED), which hardly gels with the idea of jinchuuriki as common weapons used by the villages (contrast with the backstory of Killer Bee). While the Kyuubi was imprisoned inside Naruto, the Shukaku (despite supposedly being a much weaker creature than Kyuubi) possessed Gaara and tried to take control of his body whenever he slept (the dark rings around Gaara's eyes were originally indicative of his chronic insomnia rather than a "bijuu mark" like Naruto's whisker marks or Yugito's catlike eyes). While Gaara was originally created to be a character in a similar situation to Naruto, to show how he could have turned out if things had gone badly, that was where the similarities were meant to end.

    So why did Kishimoto do this? Come the timeskip, Akatsuki needed a plan. The obvious choice was the Kyuubi- it had been portrayed as the most powerful creature in the story so far, it was what made Naruto unique and defined half of his character, so what could be more interesting than having them wanting it for some neferious purpose? We already knew they had their sights set on Naruto from Itachi and Kisame's first appearance in the Tsunade arc, but obviously they couldn't be going after him ALL the time or the story would simply get bogged down with "Akatsuki try to capture Naruto>they fail" (since succeeding would have been out of the question). Bring on the bijuu; suddenly there's nine of these things for Akatsuki to go after- and unlike with Naruto, they're allowed to succeed without derailing the entire story. Hell, it even allowed Kishimoto to involve Gaara in the first post-time skip arc, to raise the personal stakes. This led to bigger and more epic things until we ended up where we are today.

    Of course, that raises the OTHER big issue:

    2) Akatsuki and Madara were created out of nothing.

    Before the first appearance of Itachi and Kisame in chapter 140, who would you say was the main antagonist of the series? Orochimaru, right? Well duh- he'd just killed the 3rd Hokage, arguably the biggest and most shocking twist in the plot so far. Even to this very day, the 3rd is the most significant non-antagonist character to die in the entire series (slightly ahead of Jiraiya). Orochimaru had also orchestrated the entire war between Konoha and Suna by murdering and replacing the Kazekage, he was considered a legend together with Jiraiya and Tsunade, he was incredibly creepy and he wanted to steal the body of Sasuke, the protagonist's best friend, making it personal between him and Naruto. He had "Big Bad" written all over him. From chapters 45 (his first appearance) to 238 (the start of the timeskip) the plot basically revolved around him. Even though the Tsunade arc was about bringing Tsunade back to Konoha to become Hokage and to heal Sasuke, Kakashi and Lee, and was the debut of Akatsuki, the antagonist of the arc ended up being Orochimaru again.

    Fast forward to the post-timeskip story. Apart from a fairly memorable appearance in the Grass Country arc (starting from chapter 289) his role is to get beaten up and absorbed by Sasuke, then make a sudden shocking and unexpected appearance in chapter 392 in the fight between Sasuke and Itachi, only to get instantly beaten and sealed forever. Wow, talk about anticlimactic. This CANNOT have been planned, otherwise Orochimaru wouldn't have been built up as such an awesome villain in the first half only to become such a loser punk in the second.

    So, why was Orochimaru beaten so pathetically? 2 reasons. First, while he was a great villain and his interest in Sasuke made it personal for Naruto, he clearly had no interest whatsoever in the Kyuubi. Since the Kyuubi and the newly-introduced bijuu were going to be the focus of the plot post-timeskip, Orochimaru could sadly no longer serve as series Big Bad. Akatsuki gave Kishimoto an entire LEAGUE of Orochimaru-level guys to use as antagonists, especially once he revealed Orochimaru was an ex-member. It was all about scaling the "epicness level" of the plot up. Unfortunately, this made Orochimaru either a loose end or even an outright distraction from the plot, so he had to be offed.

    Second, let's look at HOW he went down. First he gets utterly pwned by Sasuke. Then he gets pwned even MORE by Itachi. Is there a connection? You bet- the Uchiha Plot Stranglehold Technique. To use Troper terminology Orochimaru got utterly Worfed to show how awesome and powerful the Uchiha's are, and I think you can see where this is leading...

    Enter Uchiha Madara. Madara was first mentioned offhand in chapter 309 by the Kyuubi as someone who could suppress the power the of the bijuu. Many fans cried foul when comic relief clown Tobi was revealed to be long-dead master Uchiha and the REAL leader of Akatsuki, but that's where the money was. With a plot revolving around jinchuuriki (who had to be plausibly strong for this plot to make sense), Kishimoto needed an antagonist who could convincingly be considered more powerful than them. Itachi couldn't be the villain, he was too personally connected to Sasuke and if he became the series' main villain it'd be stupid for Sasuke to remain antagonistic towards Naruto and co (and the revelation that he's really a good guy who's loyal to Konoha would also become impossible). Madara fit the bill, even if using him was a total Ass Pull.

    What does this boil down to? Uchiha Madara was made the main antagonist of the series, despite it making very little sense and seeming to come out of nowhere, because he was the antagonist Kishimoto needed to keep the plot moving. Pain wouldn't do- Kishimoto wanted to make him sympathetic. He didn't create Akatsuki's plot, Akatsuki's plot (and the manga's plot) created him.

    Besides, look at Akatsuki in general. Their first appearance was in chapter 140 where Itachi revealed they wanted Naruto for reasons unknown bt obviously related to the Kyuubi. Then we get told their plan is to use the bijuu to become the most powerful ninja organisation in the world, eclipsing the great villages and basically making them de facto rulers of the world through economics. Then Pain reveals he wants to create an immense bijuu WMD to scare the world into peace. Then Madara trots out his stupid 'Moon's Eye plan' and all bets are off.

    Does this sound like it was planned from the beginning? Hell no. The details of Akatsuki were practically being made up on the fly. Look at the rings, for example- they were initially portrayed as extremely significant (Orochimaru kept his on his severed and decaying hand, Tobi figured he could join the leadership of Akatsuki when he found Sasori's ring etc) but were subsequently COMPLETELY forgotten and never mentioned again.

    In short, Akatsuki was originally created as a vague "evil organisation" Kishimoto could use for whatever plot he thought up as he went along and Madara was the final result of this. Orochimaru was meant to be the original villain of Naruto, but when he reached his limits as an antagonist he was mercilessly axed.

    I hope you found this post interesting and thought-provoking. One can't help but wonder what direction Masashi Kishimoto INITIATLLY planned on taking the series in? Hell, in the initial pilot chapter Naruto was an actual kitsune in human form who lived in a modern world without even so much as a mention of ninjas!

    TL;DR: Go back and read it you slacker!
    The Dream Wedding: My first one-shot Naruto fanfiction.
    Naruto: the Secret Songs of the Ninja: My epic "what if" story where Sasuke never survived the battle against Haku.

    Top ten reasons why NaruHina will become canon:
    7. Naruto saw Hinata dancing naked in a waterfall, and he totally digs that.
    10. Hinata has giant boobies.

  2. #2
    black flash's Avatar
    black flash is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    I didn't even read all of this and saw about a dozen things that I could counter your argument with.

    Did you actual write this or copy it from somewhere else?

    But what I mean is that the series we are reading now is NOT the series Masashi Kishimoto originally planned on writing. I have no idea what he DID plan originally, or even if he HAD a plan for the long term, but the current ninja war over the bijuu and Madara's 'Moon's Eye Plan' is not it.
    Kishi has admitted before that he knew how he wanted to end the manga but never knew how he was gonna get there, he has also said in many interviews that the editors ask for more when it comes to the story and certain characters, making him divert from his original story.

    What does this boil down to? Uchiha Madara was made the main antagonist of the series
    You believe Madara to be the main antagonist of the manga.......interesting.

    You have a couple valid points but most if not all have been discuss before in great detail and most of the topics have been put to rest because there is evidence to back them up either in the manga or in interviews.

    in the initial pilot chapter Naruto was an actual kitsune in human form who lived in a modern world without even so much as a mention of ninjas!
    You do know what a pilot is right?

  3. #3
    Yazen is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    I never believed Orochimaru was built up to be the main villain. He was a good stepping stone for Sasuke. I would also never put it past Kishi to kill off the older characters to make the younger generation look stronger. It's kind of the theme he's been building since the beginning.

    The Shukaku's differences could also be explained away as different sealing techniques. They sealed the beast in a way that it would always protect Gaara but they didn't do it properly (it was a failure) and it caused him to force himself to stay awake.

    I will however say this. You are right when you say that this manga wasn't planned. When Kishi says he knows how he wants to end it, I believe he knows only certain characters fates. Like Naruto dying or becoming Hokage, Sasuke's fate, all that stuff

  4. #4
    Arcane Azmadi is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Quote Originally Posted by black flash View Post
    I didn't even read all of this and saw about a dozen things that I could counter your argument with.
    Well that's nice, I created this thread mainly to create some discussion. When are you planning on starting?

    Did you actual write this or copy it from somewhere else?
    How rude! I should slap your shit for such an insulting accusation, moderator or not! I wrote this, based on my research, with assistance from me! Seriously, of all the things you could have said, that really pisses me off!

    Kishi has admitted before that he knew how he wanted to end the manga but never knew how he was gonna get there, he has also said in many interviews that the editors ask for more when it comes to the story and certain characters, making him divert from his original story.
    Oh good, so what you're saying is that I'm completely correct, yes?

    You believe Madara to be the main antagonist of the manga.......interesting.
    Whatever. The fucknut with the weird mask. What with the Christmas break I'd kind of lost track of recent events apart from the big fight in the most recent chapters and we've been referring to Sir Swirlyface as "Madara" for so long that the fact that he's not the "real" Madara just slipped my mind. He's still either a damn Uchiha or has a fetish for nicking peoples' eyeballs, so my point still stands. If anything, the reveal that he apparently hasn't been Madara all along ("WHAT A TWEEST!") only supports my theory that Kishimoto is basically making it all up as he goes along.

    You have a couple valid points but most if not all have been discuss before in great detail and most of the topics have been put to rest because there is evidence to back them up either in the manga or in interviews.
    They have? News to me. So sorry to waste space on your forum that could be more productively spent on more rivetingly interesting 'Naruto chapter XXX' threads.

    You do know what a pilot is right?
    It's a man or woman who flies a plane, right?

    See, the problem we have here is that you've assumed I'm an idiot, so you haven't given anything I've said due consideration. You even started by admitting you hadn't read the whole thing. Of COURSE I know what a pilot is. My point was "THINGS CHANGE".

    Quote Originally Posted by Yazen View Post
    I never believed Orochimaru was built up to be the main villain. He was a good stepping stone for Sasuke. I would also never put it past Kishi to kill off the older characters to make the younger generation look stronger. It's kind of the theme he's been building since the beginning.
    I suppose it's possible he wasn't originally created as the series' ULTIMATE villain, but he was clearly meant to do more than he ended up doing. How do I know that? Because as I pointed out, the end he came to was sad and pathetic for a villain who had been as well-crafted as him. To use Troper parlance again he had a bridge dropped on him to get him out of the way. Let's be honest here, how many members of Akatsuki have been nearly as creepy, menacing, stylish and frankly awesome as Orochimaru (or at least, as Orochimaru before he was made into the Uchihas' bitch)? Some have had their moments (Sasori was as creepy as FUCK, Pain was certainly creative and interesting even though he turned out to be a melodramatic emo bitch to rival Sasuke) but they just don't live up to the sense of menace the snake lord imbued the series with from his first appearence up to the start of the time skip. Hell, even his one moment of post-timeskip glory when he fought 4-tails Naruto at the Tenchi Bridge was in my mind one of the best scenes in the series. And Kishimoto hasn't been really "killing off the older generation"- he killed Jiraiya (and Asuma who, let's face it, was so irrelevant that Naruto had to go learn about wind chakra from him immediately before his death just so readers would give a damn about him) then wimped out on killing anyone else when he had Pain play Jesus to bring back everyone he'd (rather impressively) killed at the end of his arc.

    The Shukaku's differences could also be explained away as different sealing techniques. They sealed the beast in a way that it would always protect Gaara but they didn't do it properly (it was a failure) and it caused him to force himself to stay awake.
    They could be explained away like that and that might even be Kishimoto's explaination if asked about it- but that's trying too hard, when the more likely probability is I'm right. Gaara was never meant to be a jinchuuriki because when his character was created jinchuuriki didn't exist. Use Occam's Razor. Simplest is bestest. I plotted out the chain of thought that led to the creation of the bijuu, the jinchuuriki and the retcon of Gaara and Shukaku into one:

    1) With the new antagonists being intent on capturing Naruto for the power of the Kyuubi, something more is needed. Obviously they can't capture Naruto or the series would come to its climax WAY too soon. Nor can they constantly try to capture him and fail, or that would make them pretty pathetic antagonists. So what the story needs is more characters like Naruto to take the fall for him instead, making the new villains intimidating and letting them progress with their plans without playing merry hell with the plot.

    2) The obvious choice is more people with demons sealed inside of them. Since Naruto is the protagonist, and since he's defined as the "underdog ninja with the secret unmatched power inside of him", making him the underdog among his demon-bearing peers would be redundant- the Kyuubi HAS to be the most powerful beast of all, or it undercuts the achievement of the 4th Hokage sealing it inside Naruto in the first place.

    3) Since the Kyuubi is the most powerful of these creatures and it's a nine-tailed kitsune, it would seem to make sense to rank these creatures by their number of tails. (In Japanese myth, fox spirits gain more tails as they age and become more powerful, up to a maximum of nine.) So maybe it would work to have a number of other ninja holding younger, less powerful kitsune with fewer tails?

    4) Unfortunately, at this point Gaara becomes a liability from a plot perspective. If there's a shadowy organisation wanting the power of these kitsune, why would they overlook Gaara who ALSO has an immensely powerful monster inside of him, just, y'know, a different one? It would seem weird if there are a number of demon-ninja around but also something so similar- kind of like if they'd introduced an Evangelion into a Gundam series.

    5) So why not change things so the Shukaku of the Sand is ALSO a creature like the Kyuubi? Rather than make all the other Akatsuki-fodder jinchuuriki the bearers of lesser kitsune, make an entire SERIES of tailed beasts. After all, "having a tail/s" is pretty much the only thing Shukaku and Kyuubi really have in common apart from living inside a young boy ninja. So make Shukaku the "one-tailed beast" (because he only has one tail, since "number of tails" really wasn't a consideration when Gaara and Shukaku were being designed) and Kyuubi the most powerful of a series of nine.

    The thing with this is, when you look on the Naruto/Gaara battle in hindsight, Gaara ends up being the bearer of the weakest of the bijuu, but slaps Naruto around like a bitch. Introducing a power hierarchy wouldn't have been that bad an idea, but putting Gaara at the bottom of it proves that it wasn't planned that way. Gaara was meant to be a parallel character to Naruto, his shadowy EQUAL. If Kishimoto had planned for Gaara to be a jinchuuriki from the very beginning, don't you think he would have made the Shukaku a bit higher up the list- maybe the 5- or 6-tailed beast? The really sad thing is that the whole concept would have worked if Kishimoto had just dropped the whole "tails" system and made it a variety of different mystical beasts with the Kyuubi as the most powerful just because it is (in Japanese myth, kitsune are supposed to be INCREDIBLY powerful once they reach 9 tails). He didn't have to make them all more-or-less identical either, so Shukaku would have fit in much better. Keep the concept of jinchuuriki, a series of powerful animal demons sealed in human hosts, but the whole "bijuu" thing accidentally gave the retcon away.

    It was actually from my reasoning about the jinchuuriki retcon that I developed my theory about Akatsuki and guy-who-is-apparently-not-Uchiha-Madara being made up later on. I'd actually reasoned out the jinchuuriki retcon a long time ago, but not too long ago I was plotting out the plot of a Naruto fanfic I'm currently writing. It's a For Want of a Nail fic where things have diverged from the original plot rather radically around about the time of the Chuunin Exam and I was struggling with how I'd reconcile the new plot direction with upcoming events in canon- how Akatsuki would act in light of what had happened, how Naruto would develop as a jinchuuriki etc etc. It was just after I'd plotted an alternate battle between Naruto and Gaara as being between "two jinchuuriki" that the realisation struck me: "Hang on- Kishimoto never initially planned Gaara to even be a jinchuuriki, or for the bijuu to even exist, so does that mean he's been making up th entire plot as he goes along?" It was a great relief to me too, since when I reasoned it that far I realised I had absolutely NO obligation to go along with the established canon in my fic beyond a certain point. I'm going to be using Akatsuki and probably some other characters, but NO bijuu and NO stupid "moon's eye plan"- their interest in Naruto will be for a totally different reason.

    Anyway, that's the story of how I came up with these theories. In all honestly I'm a lot more sure of the bijuu retcon- my supposition that Akatsuki and "one-eyed doofus" were created out of thin air is mainly speculation, although I'd still say the likelihood is pretty high.
    Last edited by Arcane Azmadi; 01-22-2012 at 11:38 PM.
    The Dream Wedding: My first one-shot Naruto fanfiction.
    Naruto: the Secret Songs of the Ninja: My epic "what if" story where Sasuke never survived the battle against Haku.

    Top ten reasons why NaruHina will become canon:
    7. Naruto saw Hinata dancing naked in a waterfall, and he totally digs that.
    10. Hinata has giant boobies.

  5. #5
    Heartlessfang is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    This is interesting, but Manga is a bit more complicated than that. For a guy in jump like Kishi, editors and reader questionnaires really have a lot of control of how his chapters go. he probably did have some plan, but JUMP would probably make him continue a lucrative franchise (possibly even extending the manga so the Anime could continue longer at his editor's orders.) even if he wanted to end it.

    I dunno, I agree %120 about how the manga has changed, and the more obvious plot contradictions, but I wouldn't dump so much on Kishimoto, who basically has/had to draw for his life every week and only produce what his editor wanted him to, or he'd get canceled.

    A lot of this became clear after I started reading Bakuman. I just wouldn't compare the process to western comics, which the environment isn't nearly as busy/competitive as the japanese. /ramble

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  6. #6
    black flash's Avatar
    black flash is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    How rude! I should slap your shit for such an insulting accusation, moderator or not! I wrote this, based on my research, with assistance from me! Seriously, of all the things you could have said, that really pisses me off!
    You need to relax because I was asking you a genuine question, which you seem to have taken as an insult.

    They have? News to me. So sorry to waste space on your forum that could be more productively spent on more rivetingly interesting 'Naruto chapter XXX' threads.
    1. It's not my forum
    2. As long as it's not character vs character you can post whatever you want Naruto related

    See, the problem we have here is that you've assumed I'm an idiot, so you haven't given anything I've said due consideration. You even started by admitting you hadn't read the whole thing. Of COURSE I know what a pilot is. My point was "THINGS CHANGE".
    I didn't assume anything I asked you a question that you took the wrong way again, there are a lot of people who don't know the full meaning of a pilot or understand the grounds of one.

  7. #7
    Arcane Azmadi is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heartlessfang View Post
    This is interesting, but Manga is a bit more complicated than that. For a guy in jump like Kishi, editors and reader questionnaires really have a lot of control of how his chapters go. he probably did have some plan, but JUMP would probably make him continue a lucrative franchise (possibly even extending the manga so the Anime could continue longer at his editor's orders.) even if he wanted to end it.

    I dunno, I agree %120 about how the manga has changed, and the more obvious plot contradictions, but I wouldn't dump so much on Kishimoto, who basically has/had to draw for his life every week and only produce what his editor wanted him to, or he'd get canceled.

    A lot of this became clear after I started reading Bakuman. I just wouldn't compare the process to western comics, which the environment isn't nearly as busy/competitive as the japanese. /ramble
    Good point, but I'm not trying to dump on Kishimoto with this post, just point out something that I thought was interesting. Because the jinchuuriki retcon is huge- pretty much the entire plot revolves around them, but they didn't even EXIST before the timeskip. I just thought it made an interesting topic of conversation. Admittedly my antipathy towards the man may have leaked in a bit in places (I'm NOT really impressed with where he's taken the story at several points) but this isn't meant to be a flame thread.

    I know this happens a lot in manga, especially shounen manga- just look at Bleach, for example. As early as the second plot arc, Kubo had already contradicted a lot of the stuff established in the first arc (so the "happy afterlife" the souls of the dead go to is a feudal Japanese slum? Really?) and even started contradicting itself (witness Abarai Renji go from a bloodthirsty psycho looking forward to Rukia's execution to a loyal and affectionate friend shocked to hear that she's being punished so harshly for a trivial offence in the space of only 2 appearances!). It's par for the course, I guess. Maybe I was just trying (perhaps rather naively) to hold Naruto to a higher standard because let's be honest, up until the timeskip -over 230 chapters- the plot was actually pretty consistant. Maybe that's why it bothers me that it went off the rails so radically afterwards.

    Quote Originally Posted by black flash View Post
    You need to relax because I was asking you a genuine question, which you seem to have taken as an insult.
    OK, no probs, but maybe you should considered that I took it as an insult because it was a very insulting question, or at least tactlessly phrased. If you hadn't put it as "did you actually write this" it wouldn't have sounded so much like you were openly accusing me of plagiarism. But if you didn't mean it that way then no hard feelings.
    The Dream Wedding: My first one-shot Naruto fanfiction.
    Naruto: the Secret Songs of the Ninja: My epic "what if" story where Sasuke never survived the battle against Haku.

    Top ten reasons why NaruHina will become canon:
    7. Naruto saw Hinata dancing naked in a waterfall, and he totally digs that.
    10. Hinata has giant boobies.

 

 

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