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  1. #31
    The Witcher is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jahnin View Post
    As Krazykwasi AND Urameshi said (in the part of his message you didn't quote) : That may as well been FIGURATIVE speaking. Manipulating nagoto or even his whole genealogy (madara is veeery old, no?) to create the condition of awakening of the rinnegan. Not actually planting eyes into the damn kid face...
    Well, I guess. The same as being called 'Mizukage' merely meant he controlled a former Mizukage... yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jahnin View Post
    I can. Easily : Bunshin, genjutsu, henge jutsu, escape jutsu... Orochimaru killed the friggin kazkage and took his place for maybe months, nobody noticed. I don't see how diggin some graves in the night would prove to be more difficult than that. Not to tell the guy is a snake and can send some little beast do the work.
    I doubt all the ninja in all the villages are incompetent enough for that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jahnin View Post
    He said the depth was too much. I don't see anything more to say.
    Finding a corpse in deep water, given it could very well be eating by fish, crabs, etc.. Is complicated enought, or at least time consuming.
    No more complicated than finding seven jinchuuriki corpses in the wilderness spread across multiple nations.
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  2. #32
    Jahnin is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Well all the jinchuu were taken out by akatsuki. Seem plausible that kabuto had access to them (he entered into Madara hideout himself, alone). May it be an edo tensei giving him intel, or him being well informed, he knows a lot.

    For the bodies of the kage, I don't think the ninja of the different villages are incompetent, just that kabuto (and oro) are very strong at what they do. Oro did get the previous Hokages bodies. And had infiltrated the chunin exam without any problem.. He even created a village in the face of everyone..

    Getting body parts or just adn wouldn't be much more difficult for them

  3. #33
    Bledge is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    In fact, as far as Jinchuurikis are concerned, they didn't appear during the first Edo Tensei Kabuto showed to Madara, only Akatsuki's members.
    10 cents Madara gave the bodies to Kabuto to strengthen the army.
    As farfetched it may sound, Zetsu and Madara could have collected some relics as well, more than Akatsukis and Jinchuurikis bodies. But it's not that consistent with Kabuto saying he had difficulties to find some.

  4. #34
    The Witcher is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jahnin View Post
    Well all the jinchuu were taken out by akatsuki. Seem plausible that kabuto had access to them (he entered into Madara hideout himself, alone). May it be an edo tensei giving him intel, or him being well informed, he knows a lot.

    For the bodies of the kage, I don't think the ninja of the different villages are incompetent, just that kabuto (and oro) are very strong at what they do. Oro did get the previous Hokages bodies. And had infiltrated the chunin exam without any problem.. He even created a village in the face of everyone..

    Getting body parts or just adn wouldn't be much more difficult for them
    You rate Kabuto too highly. He's never been shown as a super-stealthy undetectable type. It's a stretch, and a pretty big one. Admit it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bledge View Post
    In fact, as far as Jinchuurikis are concerned, they didn't appear during the first Edo Tensei Kabuto showed to Madara, only Akatsuki's members.
    10 cents Madara gave the bodies to Kabuto to strengthen the army.
    A million bucks says otherwise. Madara is too suspicious and apprehensive to do anything of the sort even after hearing Kabuto's explanation. No way he'd contribute 7 jinchuuriki corpses to Kabuto's arsenal when he doesn't even like seeing him feed on Anko.

    Kabuto was just giving a demonstration the first time. He did say he had many more.
    Last edited by The Witcher; 12-14-2010 at 01:12 PM.
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  5. #35
    Bledge is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Witcher View Post
    A million bucks says otherwise. Madara is too suspicious and apprehensive to do anything of the sort even after hearing Kabuto's explanation. No way he'd contribute 7 jinchuuriki corpses to Kabuto's arsenal when he doesn't even like seeing him feed on Anko.

    Kabuto was just giving a demonstration the first time. He did say he had many more.
    Now I'm clueless
    I need an explanation, though. He could track the fight where the Bijuus and Jinchuu' have been captured and get some DNAs, but... well... it depends how much he needs.
    I'm just confused !!!

  6. #36
    DivineVTDragon is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jahnin View Post
    Well all the jinchuu were taken out by akatsuki. Seem plausible that kabuto had access to them (he entered into Madara hideout himself, alone). May it be an edo tensei giving him intel, or him being well informed, he knows a lot.
    That's a stretch. He didn't enter Madara's hideout, Madara let him in (there's a difference). He did somehow track Madara though (but that could be because he somehow had a trace on Sasuke).

    For the bodies of the kage, I don't think the ninja of the different villages are incompetent, just that kabuto (and oro) are very strong at what they do. Oro did get the previous Hokages bodies. And had infiltrated the chunin exam without any problem.. He even created a village in the face of everyone..
    Oro got the previous Hokage DNA while he was a Sannin in Konoha and ranked VERY high in the village. It isn't difficult for him to get access to libraries of information. Infiltrating a gennin exam when you're an S rank ninja shouldn't be that difficult, especially since he had helped from the Wind country.

    About the village thing, the Sound village was probably taken over by both him and Sasori. Sasori did state that he took over an entire country, and since the Sound is the newest country created, they did it together when they were partners. So, as you can see he always had help.

    Getting body parts or just adn wouldn't be much more difficult for them
    If they were just any old people like Zabuza/Haku, but some of these people are celebrated Ninja in their villages. They hold incredibly high honor and so infiltrating their tombs without a single village sounding an alert is farfetched. Not to even mention those that lived in secrecy their whole lives... *cough Nagato*

  7. #37
    Jahnin is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Witcher View Post
    You rate Kabuto too highly. He's never been shown as a super-stealthy undetectable type. It's a stretch, and a pretty big one. Admit it.

    Kabuto is quite the stealthy type on the contrary. Remember the chunin exam, when he impersonated an anbu and was guarding the stadium, before putting the genjutsu on everyone he put himself right in the middle of the security.
    In the story he's been caught more than once, but escaped each time with a "poof" (sai, yamato, naruto..)

    Now, he got oro's body AND some of his power.
    Stated here, for example

    We can assume that he's way stronger than before.

    Don't forget that he was a spy. Infiltrating IS his speciality


    That's a stretch. He didn't enter Madara's hideout, Madara let him in (there's a difference). He did somehow track Madara though (but that could be because he somehow had a trace on Sasuke).

    Just tracking Madara is a performance in itself. I mean, the guy was invisible for a century..
    Sasuke was warped in, so I don't thin his track was followed. And unlike anko, all the oro chakra was drained out from him by his brother.

    But to me, that look quite like the hideout : here

    About the village thing, the Sound village was probably taken over by both him and Sasori. Sasori did state that he took over an entire country, and since the Sound is the newest country created, they did it together when they were partners. So, as you can see he always had help.
    The sound is not a country, it's a village. If I recall correctly, it was a new formed village, not the reconstruction of one already build.
    And the point of my message wasn't the fact that he was strong enough to build a village. The point was he created a village while being an S class criminal searched trought all the world, AND by Akatsuki, without being traced.

    Oro got the previous Hokage DNA while he was a Sannin in Konoha and ranked VERY high in the village. It isn't difficult for him to get access to libraries of information. Infiltrating a gennin exam when you're an S rank ninja shouldn't be that difficult, especially since he had helped from the Wind country.
    Ok for the hokage bodies. But accessing the chunin exam is easy ? When the security is top maximum because other villages are in ? Now that would be a stretch.

    Impersonnating the Kazekage for that long is quite the feat too.
    I think that these two have nothing to prove in term of infiltration

    I mean, the top security wouldn't be put on graves, espescially when akatsuki was raging every where.. The villages had something more dangerous to worry about than protecting the graves from a jutsu they didn't know.

    And more, Concerning the special abilties that could be discovered within the bodies, we already saw with neji's father that it's possible to destroy/seal the ability, meaning any use of the body to discover or keep it's property is impossible.

    Neji's father is the perfect example : the byakugan was sealed, and the body given to the country that wanted it without any problem. The body in itself is not that important for the villages. Protecting the abilities by sealing/ destroying them is.

    Not knowing what edo tensei is, they wouldn't protect them more than they usually do.

    For nagato, again if my memory is correct, the team searching kabuto wasn't that far from the village when pain was attaking..
    Last edited by Jahnin; 12-15-2010 at 02:06 AM.

  8. #38
    The Witcher is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jahnin View Post
    Kabuto is quite the stealthy type on the contrary. Remember the chunin exam, when he impersonated an anbu and was guarding the stadium, before putting the genjutsu on everyone he put himself right in the middle of the security.
    In the story he's been caught more than once, but escaped each time with a "poof" (sai, yamato, naruto..)

    Now, he got oro's body AND some of his power.
    Stated here, for example

    We can assume that he's way stronger than before.

    Don't forget that he was a spy. Infiltrating IS his speciality
    Infiltrating without ever being found out isn't. And getting covered in scales and snakes is hardly going to help his stealth.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jahnin View Post

    The sound is not a country, it's a village. If I recall correctly, it was a new formed village, not the reconstruction of one already build.
    And the point of my message wasn't the fact that he was strong enough to build a village. The point was he created a village while being an S class criminal searched trought all the world, AND by Akatsuki, without being traced.
    The Sound is the name of both a village and a country. Manipulating a country while staying hidden is indeed impressive, but doesn't necessarily mean you're good at sneaking into other people's homes. Just that you're a good manipulator. Kabuto, ever since Orochimaru died and the Sound collapses, has been wandering along with no pawns to manipulate.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jahnin View Post
    Ok for the hokage bodies. But accessing the chunin exam is easy ? When the security is top maximum because other villages are in ? Now that would be a stretch.

    Impersonnating the Kazekage for that long is quite the feat too.
    I think that these two have nothing to prove in term of infiltration

    I mean, the top security wouldn't be put on graves, espescially when akatsuki was raging every where.. The villages had something more dangerous to worry about than protecting the graves from a jutsu they didn't know.

    And more, Concerning the special abilties that could be discovered within the bodies, we already saw with neji's father that it's possible to destroy/seal the ability, meaning any use of the body to discover or keep it's property is impossible.
    How many times do I have to say this? THEY GOT CAUGHT! Orochimaru was discovered. The Sound was exposed. Kabuto sure wouldn't get away with robbing so many graves in so many villages without anyone the wiser.

    And destroying or securing bodies to safeguard information is elementary Ninja basics. You really think the villages would be retarded enough to leave the corpses of their strongest ninjas unguarded, knowing all the things enemy ninjas can do with bodies? Or that the people coming to check on them regularly wouldn't notice they've been dug up? Give them some credit here.
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  9. #39
    krazykwasi is online now Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Witcher View Post
    And destroying or securing bodies to safeguard information is elementary Ninja basics. You really think the villages would be retarded enough to leave the corpses of their strongest ninjas unguarded, knowing all the things enemy ninjas can do with bodies? Or that the people coming to check on them regularly wouldn't notice they've been dug up? Give them some credit here.
    I will inteject on that behalf.

    No I do not think ninja give the dead bodies special treatment at all to be perfectly honest. When the 3rd Hokage died he got a regular ole funeral and a regular old tomb/grave like the rest. From the glimpses we've seen of people like Shikamaru, Kakashi and others visiting grave sites to moarn over their dead comrades the cemetry is a desolate place with tombs and graves, thats it, so I dont think they have round the clock guard duties for their dead (at least Konoha). Now other stricker villages might have a different process but as far as we know when their ninja died they just bury them (which I think is stupid since they should be cremating their dead in the first place), hold a ceremony and move on with their lives. Judging from the way Kanguro talked about Edo Tensei its obvious that he, and the younger ninja taking part in the war, had no clue what it was and as a matter of fact since its a forbidden technique only a select old few would know about it versus the general public at large so in their mind they dont even consider the far-fetched possibily of someone wanting to steal a corpse. And not to mention Kabuto doesn't come off like a sloppy frankenstein who will dig up a grave and leave it dug open with an open coffin in plain few for people to know that someone stole a corpse. He is more slick than that so he'll get what he needs and cover his tracks. The last thing he would want is for people being suspiscious that there is a ninja grave robber on the loose.

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  10. #40
    Jahnin is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Witcher View Post
    Infiltrating without ever being found out isn't. And getting covered in scales and snakes is hardly going to help his stealth
    Genjutsu, bunshin, summoning.

    The Sound is the name of both a village and a country. Manipulating a country while staying hidden is indeed impressive, but doesn't necessarily mean you're good at sneaking into other people's homes. Just that you're a good manipulator. Kabuto, ever since Orochimaru died and the Sound collapses, has been wandering along with no pawns to manipulate.
    Good manipulator, and good at leaving no evidence behind.

    How many times do I have to say this? THEY GOT CAUGHT!
    Orochimaru was discovered. The Sound was exposed. Kabuto sure wouldn't get away with robbing so many graves in so many villages without anyone the wiser.
    Doesn't matter how many time you say it, it's a false statement.
    Oro didn't get CAUGHT... He REVEALED himself while taking the 3rd in custody. There is a (big) difference.
    Same for the sound...

    And destroying or securing bodies to safeguard information is elementary Ninja basics. You really think the villages would be retarded enough to leave the corpses of their strongest ninjas unguarded, knowing all the things enemy ninjas can do with bodies? Or that the people coming to check on them regularly wouldn't notice they've been dug up? Give them some credit here.
    Lol I just wrote that it's not necessary to guard them, if the information is permanently sealed. If the seal is done, the body is useless. Neji's father body has been handed over without the enemy village ever finding out how to take byakugan for themselves.
    I even gave that example !

    Do you really think kabuto would dig up and leave a hole in place ? give the guy some credits...


    And again, I don't think the security on the grave would be THAT important, since there is other matters to worry about.

    On an other note, whe don't even know if all the bodies where in their village to begin with. ( ex zabuza, haku, the first and the second bodies where missing.)

    EDIT :

    Quote Originally Posted by krazykwasi View Post
    I will inteject on that behalf.

    No I do not think ninja give the dead bodies special treatment at all to be perfectly honest. When the 3rd Hokage died he got a regular ole funeral and a regular old tomb/grave like the rest. From the glimpses we've seen of people like Shikamaru, Kakashi and others visiting grave sites to moarn over their dead comrades the cemetry is a desolate place with tombs and graves, thats it, so I dont think they have round the clock guard duties for their dead (at least Konoha). Now other stricker villages might have a different process but as far as we know when their ninja died they just bury them (which I think is stupid since they should be cremating their dead in the first place), hold a ceremony and move on with their lives. Judging from the way Kanguro talked about Edo Tensei its obvious that he, and the younger ninja taking part in the war, had no clue what it was and as a matter of fact since its a forbidden technique only a select old few would know about it versus the general public at large so in their mind they dont even consider the far-fetched possibily of someone wanting to steal a corpse. And not to mention Kabuto doesn't come off like a sloppy frankenstein who will dig up a grave and leave it dug open with an open coffin in plain few for people to know that someone stole a corpse. He is more slick than that so he'll get what he needs and cover his tracks. The last thing he would want is for people being suspiscious that there is a ninja grave robber on the loose.
    Exactly what I think
    Last edited by Jahnin; 12-15-2010 at 08:46 AM.

 

 
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