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  1. #21
    krazykwasi is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by ivanov_2020 View Post
    i know two possibilities:
    because his shark is not "that special type of beast that has their own realm" aka they're normal animal sharks, unlike any other summoned beast that is special..
    to make the differ, a normal animal summoned is normal size and not talking while the special beast are talkative and/or huge..

    another reason could be because the shark is not a summoned beast at all.. not like kakashi's dog squad, kisame's shark look like made from water exactly like the ink beasts that sai usually made (only kisame's are more real life like then sai's)

    i like the later reason more though
    I beg to differ. Kisame uses A LOT of sharks so don't get them confused.

    Real Sharks
    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/38409866/11
    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/72932747/5
    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/72932747/12 (Notices how these go *poof* rather than splatter like water clones?)
    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/72932747/16


    Fake Sharks
    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/38409866/7
    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/38409866/12
    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/38409866/13
    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/38409866/15


    Kisame's real sharks don't seem "special" in terms of talking or special abilities but that doesn't mean they don't have their own realm/place of existence. Not every summoned animal we've seen can talk (orochimaru and sasuke's snakes as well as that big Ninken that Kakashi summons have never been shown to talk). As Kakashi said in the very beginning when Pakkun was introduced, he is the most intelligent of the dogs and learned to talk at an early age. So in other words speech isn't a given for a summon. Unlike all the other summons we've seen (which are all relatively important to the plot etc) Kisames sharks are just fodder summon material the same way sasuke and orochimaru's snakes were. They were expendable and were only used in quick battles. Im sure there's a big great white leader shark or something that can talk and use shark missile jutsu somewhere out there. The fact that Kisame's summons go *poof* and vanish means that they come from somewhere (even if its just in the ocean). Also the "realm" of some of these animals can still be reached by regular means, in regards to Pa Toad saying to Naruto that it would take several weeks (or however long ) to reach Mouth Myo on foot... but its faster to reverse summon.

    So if Kishi wanted Kisame to summon a bigger shark and have it swallow him then reverse summon it to escape he could've... but he wanted to kill off Kisame. Plain and simple.
    Last edited by krazykwasi; 09-03-2010 at 10:51 AM.

    "He is now declaring his words to the WORLD!"

  2. #22
    himeji is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Quote Originally Posted by camey View Post
    ^ great answer..thx..i thought kabuto manage to revive nagato, and now madara still after nagato's rinnegan..is that possible that the kabuto's nagato didn't posses rinnegan?how bout revived itachi's sharingan? looking into 1st hokage revival by oro, seems like those kekkei genkai revive altogether..do you hv any idea?
    One word, my man. Power-hungry. Madara's a greedy bitch just like 90% of villains in general. He wants to be the strongest and best overall.

    Weeell...The revived peeps retain memories and abilities they had in life, including kekkei genkai, so the answer is that Nagato should have Rinnegan, but Itachi...Er...I don't think Itachi has the Sharingan by now...Or does he? I think Madara dug out his eyes right after he died, though.

  3. #23
    krazykwasi is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by himeji View Post
    Weeell...The revived peeps retain memories and abilities they had in life, including kekkei genkai, so the answer is that Nagato should have Rinnegan, but Itachi...Er...I don't think Itachi has the Sharingan by now...Or does he? I think Madara dug out his eyes right after he died, though.
    Yea.. but what does Madara digging out Itachi's real eyes has to do with the fake Itachi summoned by Kabuto? Shouldn't it still possess the Kekkei Genkai?

    I was thinking about this yesterday when I realized that Madara is going for the real Nagato corpse. The tech that Oro and Kabuto use to bring back the dead required that the user uses ashes (from the corpse they want to revive? (idk?)) and living hosts (orochimaru used the sound kids) as material. When the corpses come back to life they have their original special abilites and free will, but with orochimaru's special seal, which he place inside the 1st and 2nd, they are rendered under his command.

    So im sure Kabuto used some host for the bodies (cause he's killed ALOT of people along the way) but for people like deidara, who was completely blown up, Kakuzu, who's body was taken back to konoha for testing, Nagato, who's body Konan took and im sure has under close watch, sasori, who didn't have a real body anyways but only a heart and Itachi, who's body AND eyes were taken by Madara (and I dont think Madara would let Itachi's body and eyes go unnoticed), how the hell is this techique supposed to emmulate the previous user's abilities if Kabuto doesn't have any material from the previous users in the first place? For instance, what can his false Nagato do?

    I cant remember if Orochimaru used the ashes of the dead Hokages in his technique or not (which would make sense of how his hokage zombies were like the originals).

    "He is now declaring his words to the WORLD!"

  4. #24
    himeji is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Quote Originally Posted by krazykwasi View Post
    Yea.. but what does Madara digging out Itachi's real eyes has to do with the fake Itachi summoned by Kabuto? Shouldn't it still possess the Kekkei Genkai?)
    That makes sense, but shouldn't the fake Itachi have no eyes then, if the real one has none? It's pretty hard to make it out from the pic too, so I dunno...Does it depend on the state of how the person died or its current body's state?

    The tech that Oro and Kabuto use to bring back the dead required that the user uses ashes (from the corpse they want to revive? (idk?)) and living hosts (orochimaru used the sound kids) as material. When the corpses come back to life they have their original special abilites and free will, but with orochimaru's special seal, which he place inside the 1st and 2nd, they are rendered under his command.)
    And dirt. This tech needs a living host and ash and dirt. Also, from what I remember, Oro's tag didn't only make them under his control, but look more alive. When the Hokages were summoned, they had everything, except for proper colours. They were a bit decaying. XP

    how the hell is this techique supposed to emmulate the previous user's abilities if Kabuto doesn't have any material from the previous users in the first place? For instance, what can his false Nagato do?
    Dude. I know what you mean...But Kabuto did say that he has mastered it to a degree even higher than Oro and the Second Hokage combined. Either this is true or it's an illusion. The latter is extremely unlikely, though. So I'll just go with Kabuto being extremely intelligent and figuring out how to do it properly. :P

  5. #25
    Neo Dravidian is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Quote Originally Posted by krazykwasi View Post
    I beg to differ. Kisame uses A LOT of sharks so don't get them confused.

    Real Sharks
    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/38409866/11
    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/72932747/5
    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/72932747/12 (Notices how these go *poof* rather than splatter like water clones?)
    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/72932747/16


    Fake Sharks
    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/38409866/7
    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/38409866/12
    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/38409866/13
    http://mangastream.com/read/naruto/38409866/15


    Kisame's real sharks don't seem "special" in terms of talking or special abilities but that doesn't mean they don't have their own realm/place of existence. Not every summoned animal we've seen can talk (orochimaru and sasuke's snakes as well as that big Ninken that Kakashi summons have never been shown to talk). As Kakashi said in the very beginning when Pakkun was introduced, he is the most intelligent of the dogs and learned to talk at an early age. So in other words speech isn't a given for a summon. Unlike all the other summons we've seen (which are all relatively important to the plot etc) Kisames sharks are just fodder summon material the same way sasuke and orochimaru's snakes were. They were expendable and were only used in quick battles. Im sure there's a big great white leader shark or something that can talk and use shark missile jutsu somewhere out there. The fact that Kisame's summons go *poof* and vanish means that they come from somewhere (even if its just in the ocean). Also the "realm" of some of these animals can still be reached by regular means, in regards to Pa Toad saying to Naruto that it would take several weeks (or however long ) to reach Mouth Myo on foot... but its faster to reverse summon.

    So if Kishi wanted Kisame to summon a bigger shark and have it swallow him then reverse summon it to escape he could've... but he wanted to kill off Kisame. Plain and simple.
    Well, we dont really know the requirements of reverse summoning. AS far as we know that ish is hard as all get out to do. Besides, dont summons go poof when they are damaged enough? That could be why manda disappeared and why Suigetsu had to use a scroll to get sasuke back.
    If you're half the man I am today, you're twice the man you were yesterday.

  6. #26
    Luphrecio is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Quote Originally Posted by krazykwasi View Post

    So if Kishi wanted Kisame to summon a bigger shark and have it swallow him then reverse summon it to escape he could've... but he wanted to kill off Kisame. Plain and simple.
    Pretty much this kishi didnt even have to have kisame battle, he could have just not have had naruto detect him, gone on with the story, and showing what naruto was capable of doing and get on with the war already

    I mean its just fking obvious that he wanted to kill kisame off, he couldnt the first time mostly becuase of the editors and fans going *wtf dude why did you kill off this guy for?* so he just retconed him back to life using some lame ninja technique, THEN had him somewhat useful as a spy but had hm die anyway due to a whole string of bs thats been beaten to death here e.g. not using summons properly, not using ninja espionage befitting an s class ninja (not panicking when naruto *sensed* him) revealing himself to about 5 S-Class ninjas in the same area and trying to fight them instead of running away (he really could have summoned all those sharks from the get go and just ran to the sea) I could just go on and on and on, but it just really comes down to the fact that kishi was DONE with kisame and was done with him waaaaaay back when he had him fight killer bee.

    there was no reason for kisame to die other than kishis willingness to kill him off, hell, Madara didnt even NEED to send him for *information* the information that kisame gained was way more useless than kisame being alive and fighting in the war. Anyway Im done, see you guys next week.
    http://cha30.mybrute.com <-- Try To Fight me, Biatch!

  7. #27
    danzo is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    I agree with everything Luphrecio said there.

    But I guess the chapter was quite entertaining, so I guess I don't mind as much as usual.

  8. #28
    MadDogMike is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by krazykwasi View Post
    Yea.. but what does Madara digging out Itachi's real eyes has to do with the fake Itachi summoned by Kabuto? Shouldn't it still possess the Kekkei Genkai?

    I was thinking about this yesterday when I realized that Madara is going for the real Nagato corpse. The tech that Oro and Kabuto use to bring back the dead required that the user uses ashes (from the corpse they want to revive? (idk?)) and living hosts (orochimaru used the sound kids) as material. When the corpses come back to life they have their original special abilites and free will, but with orochimaru's special seal, which he place inside the 1st and 2nd, they are rendered under his command.

    So im sure Kabuto used some host for the bodies (cause he's killed ALOT of people along the way) but for people like deidara, who was completely blown up, Kakuzu, who's body was taken back to konoha for testing, Nagato, who's body Konan took and im sure has under close watch, sasori, who didn't have a real body anyways but only a heart and Itachi, who's body AND eyes were taken by Madara (and I dont think Madara would let Itachi's body and eyes go unnoticed), how the hell is this techique supposed to emmulate the previous user's abilities if Kabuto doesn't have any material from the previous users in the first place? For instance, what can his false Nagato do?

    I cant remember if Orochimaru used the ashes of the dead Hokages in his technique or not (which would make sense of how his hokage zombies were like the originals).
    Where is it stated that they need the dead ninja's ashes? I thought it was said in the manga that it was just "dirt" or "dust" clinging to the bodies of the hosts that changed their appearance, but I could be wrong.

  9. #29
    krazykwasi is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by MadDogMike View Post
    Where is it stated that they need the dead ninja's ashes? I thought it was said in the manga that it was just "dirt" or "dust" clinging to the bodies of the hosts that changed their appearance, but I could be wrong.
    http://read.homeunix.com/onlinereadi...erver=nas.html

    But what I was trying to understand is that if he needed the ashes from the people he wants to revive then how did he get the ashes of said people like Itachi, Itachi and sure as hell Deidara. I could understand Orochimaru getting the ashes of the previous Hokages but Kabuto of the previous Akatsuki members idk. In other words how serious can we take his power with his faux zombies? As Himeji said though, Kabuto did claim to be on a level higher than Orochi (and Orochi was my favorite Villain, and he was strong as hell so if Kabuto is stronger than him now... then holy fuck Kishi better not mess up with this character).

    "He is now declaring his words to the WORLD!"

  10. #30
    MadDogMike is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by krazykwasi View Post
    http://read.homeunix.com/onlinereadi...erver=nas.html

    But what I was trying to understand is that if he needed the ashes from the people he wants to revive then how did he get the ashes of said people like Itachi, Itachi and sure as hell Deidara. I could understand Orochimaru getting the ashes of the previous Hokages but Kabuto of the previous Akatsuki members idk. In other words how serious can we take his power with his faux zombies? As Himeji said though, Kabuto did claim to be on a level higher than Orochi (and Orochi was my favorite Villain, and he was strong as hell so if Kabuto is stronger than him now... then holy fuck Kishi better not mess up with this character).
    In that page you linked to, he says "the dust and ashes", but he doesn't specifically say it requires the ashes of the person being summoned. That, combined with the fact that we've seen people summoned who haven't even been cremated tells me that it doesn't actually require the ashes of the person being summoned.

 

 
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