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  1. #31
    Nicholas71 is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanzan View Post
    I really didn't like the way Kisame was pulled out of Samehada's ass. "We are so masterful, that we were able to plan for something that we had no way of foreseeing." Just too convenient.

    My main grind with this latest chapter is the reveal of Zetsu's new plot power, and the lack of forethought that went into it. Just a few things off the top of my head:

    1. Clone autonomy: Is the clone under Zetsu's control, or is it doing its own thing? If it is autonomous, does it have to know the plan ahead of his last touch?

    2. Infinite chakra: Kisame supposed to be be top dog Chakra-wise in Akutsuki, but Zetsu is able to create a "perfect clone," even down to the chakra. There should be more chakra in the clone than Zetsu has personally. Nice trick.

    3. Anyone he touches: Can he only create clones of people who are still alive, or will he be resurrecting all of Akutsuki next?

    Oda should hold a seminar for Kishimoto and Kubo on how to do plot outlining.

    Stop! It hurts!

    1. I dunno if it's under his control, but my guess would be that it's like a more perfect Kagebunshin, which works on its own until it's dispelled or dies. A kagebunshin after all is also a perfect replica, except that it disappears upon taking a hit.

    2. First of all chakra is created when stamina and spiritual energy are fused, so you can't tell a shinobi's chakra levels just by sensing it, if they haven't MADE any chakra yet. Early on we learn it's a waste to make so much chakra unless you're going to use it for anything other than showing off. So Zetsu just has to make a copy with regular chakra levels.

    3. I'd say he can probably make clones of dead people, but the clones he makes are weak as well, seeing as how the Kisame clone was taken out pretty easily. My problem is that if Zetsu could make a clone that could at least hold its own against Killerbee for so long, why'd they have to make Pain use his cloning technique earlier to make Itachi and Kisame clones, which required sacrifices?

    I actually think Kishi did plan it out in advance, just that it wasn't thought out well. He probably knew he wanted to bring Kisame back, he wanted the plot to go that way, he just couldn't come up with a real tight explanation, hence the Zetsu thing. I mean, he gave Kisame a very different kind of 'death' than everyone else, who had at least some sort of buildup. Plus Kisame's a much more prominent character than, say, Hidan or Kakuzu, yet he was 'killed' off almost as an afterthought. So him coming back makes sense.

  2. #32
    Deathbringerpt is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    There's also the fact that Danzou sent Root ninjas to hunt Anko, that'd be a perfect opportunity for her to use her cursed seal and show off her powers.

  3. #33
    Neo Dravidian is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    ;>_>
    what are yall talking about? All that was said was that he switched out in the water. If it was done when he was undoing that giant water dome(thus after Bee got his but semi whooped[he was protecting people like gaara was]) then it would make sense why he got owned so quickly. And like I and someone else said, if he made a 1:1 clone then zetsu would be a one man army. Since he is not a one man army his ability must not 1:1. The clones can just look the same and has replicated/imitated chakra. I mean madara stated like fifty times that Zetsu wasnt a fighting type.
    If you're half the man I am today, you're twice the man you were yesterday.

  4. #34
    Bledge is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neo Dravidian View Post
    ;>_>
    what are yall talking about? All that was said was that he switched out in the water. If it was done when he was undoing that giant water dome(thus after Bee got his but semi whooped[he was protecting people like gaara was]) then it would make sense why he got owned so quickly. And like I and someone else said, if he made a 1:1 clone then zetsu would be a one man army. Since he is not a one man army his ability must not 1:1. The clones can just look the same and has replicated/imitated chakra. I mean madara stated like fifty times that Zetsu wasnt a fighting type.
    The more I think about it, the more I concur.
    At that time, Bee was on the ground, knocked out (or so it seemed) and Kisame/Zetsu just wanted to cut Bee's legs. No need for a super vhakra boosted warrior to do it. In fact, it's a pretty damn good move they made here.

  5. #35
    goldencalf is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    wow, kabutomaru shure looks lame now.

    i kind of hoped he'll be alive at the end of the series, but no doubts now, he won't.
    I guess in this manga no morally questionable dude can make it alive, unless his name is Sasuke.
    or gaara.

  6. #36
    ivanov_2020 is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldencalf View Post
    wow, kabutomaru shure looks lame now.

    i kind of hoped he'll be alive at the end of the series, but no doubts now, he won't.
    i feel the same way... thought we might still see madara's smile at the end to truly define his immortality... but then again i just remember that this is a shounen.

  7. #37
    R3dKnight is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    neah he looks like a Bishounen Kabutomaru
    Last edited by R3dKnight; 03-19-2010 at 06:39 PM.

  8. #38
    The Witcher is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Kishimoto actually managed to save the Kisame situation. Just barely. Still, this is far too left field to be anything but a retcon.

    I mean, when you think about it, the facts still don't add up. How could Madara have planned the whole thing when it involved variables outside his control(like the Raikage even being able to locate Bee, let alone arriving just in time to rescue him)? And why would he even bother with the whole disguise/infiltration idea to capture Bee when it would have been easier just attacking him in the wilderness?

    And I'm surprised no one mentioned Black Zetsu. I didn't think he could die from breaking his neck, but I wasn't expecting to see him alive after not being addressed for umpteen chapters, especially since the ninjas at the Kage conference would have taken his body into custody after Sasuke's escape. Was that another clone?

    Well, either way the end result is that two decent villains are back to spice things up(which I believe was Kishimoto's intention; he backtracked on their deaths after he realised Madara and Sasuke were the only Akatsuki left). I suppose from this point we'll be back to focussing on the Uchihas and their grand plan again.<sigh>

    EDIT: How could I forget to mention this? After all that talk of her coming 'heroism'(Remember, take his interviews with a ton of salt); Kishimoto himself has at last given up on Sakura ever being a likeable, useful character! That confession about her being useless after all came straight from his heart. Nice to see a bit of honesty after his Uchiha fanboyism prevented him from ever maturing Sakura past her childhood fangirl phase.
    Last edited by The Witcher; 03-20-2010 at 06:57 AM.
    I'M NO HERO, BELIEVE IT!

  9. #39
    Kanzan is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Default No death, just pastoral retirement

    This is a better explanation for what has happened in this manga than anything Kishi has dished out, except for the Deidara part. He's opened a ceramic studio and is making 'male and female' salt and pepper shakers, or, more Japanese, katsuobushi and furikake shakers. They give purpose to his art.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yazen View Post
    Edit: Zabuza and Haku are alive living gayly on the countryside together. Hidan is alive with his rice cake shop. Deidara is now making a living doing construction work for the bridge building company and Pain actually has 8 bodies but this 8th body doesn't have chakra so is irrelevant to the story
    Last edited by Kanzan; 03-20-2010 at 01:52 PM. Reason: forgot a word

  10. #40
    Neo Dravidian is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Witcher View Post
    Kishimoto actually managed to save the Kisame situation. Just barely. Still, this is far too left field to be anything but a retcon.

    I mean, when you think about it, the facts still don't add up. How could Madara have planned the whole thing when it involved variables outside his control(like the Raikage even being able to locate Bee, let alone arriving just in time to rescue him)? And why would he even bother with the whole disguise/infiltration idea to capture Bee when it would have been easier just attacking him in the wilderness?

    And I'm surprised no one mentioned Black Zetsu. I didn't think he could die from breaking his neck, but I wasn't expecting to see him alive after not being addressed for umpteen chapters, especially since the ninjas at the Kage conference would have taken his body into custody after Sasuke's escape. Was that another clone?

    Well, either way the end result is that two decent villains are back to spice things up(which I believe was Kishimoto's intention; he backtracked on their deaths after he realised Madara and Sasuke were the only Akatsuki left). I suppose from this point we'll be back to focussing on the Uchihas and their grand plan again.<sigh>

    EDIT: How could I forget to mention this? After all that talk of her coming 'heroism'(Remember, take his interviews with a ton of salt); Kishimoto himself has at last given up on Sakura ever being a likeable, useful character! That confession about her being useless after all came straight from his heart. Nice to see a bit of honesty after his Uchiha fanboyism prevented him from ever maturing Sakura past her childhood fangirl phase.
    Well the bolded part is explainable. The raikage part wasnt planned. Only Kisame infiltrating the lightning village was. I'm assuming that Zetsu's physical capabilities are ridiculously low and it be pretty easy for Bee to just beat him, even running low on chakra. The raikage part was coincidence. And I believe that in war, more damage could be done by infiltrating a village unnoticed and raping it from the inside out or gaining intelligence on your enemies then abducting Bee would give better results even if its more of a gamble. And that fits Madara's personality as he has made several gamble through out the plot.
    If you're half the man I am today, you're twice the man you were yesterday.

 

 
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