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  1. #111
    bloodfall is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    "By the way, Sasuke had the same reaction when Madara told him about Itachi. Weak state, he collapsed. You may say it was closer from his fight than Naruto's case. You're right."

    That's true, I haven't realized that. Thank you man!

    I can't wait till Thursday or Wednesday. I can't see how the hell sasuke is going to escape. I just wish it doesn't involve Naruto's mercy on him.

    About all the hokage discussion, we still don't know about tsunade's condition, maybe she's already woken up. (is it right? woken up ? bad english ssorry =/ )
    I think gaara suggested kakashi as a trusty ninja, and not as next hokage.
    A man without god is just like a fish, without a bycicle

  2. #112
    Yazen is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    I think I've said at least 4 times now that nowhere does it say anything about Sage Mode and 5 minutes. I reread the Pain arc and no. (unless I'm fucking blind which I don't think so.)

    I don't think Naruto is unpredictable outside of fights because he's been shown to be pretty reliable now. Sure he completely ditched Yamamoto but the guy was trying to take him away from all the action. What kind of ninja would he be if he followed him. A lazy one.

    It's a good point that he hasn't had any genins under him yet but that's mostly ninja politics (lame) as Naruto himself is still a genin. I know no one in the village views him as a genin but a doctor without a doctorate is your next door neighbor..feel me? lol

    I know I might get berated for his but Naruto hasn't had a real chance of showing good leadership yet. Every time he's got Yamamoto, Kakashi or a slew of jounins with him. It still doesn't take away from the fact that when he asks them to back off they back off. It's their respect and acknowledgement of his prowess and ability that does that.

    I just want to take this time to say that you've made your point with Naruto being immature at a certain level with his hyperventilation ( which it is in my opinion that he only did this because Kishi FORCED him because of his undying boner for Sasuke) over his pal becoming the #2 criminal of the ninja world.
    HOWEVER I fully believe we are about to see a redemption from Naruto to put everyone's minds to rest about his immaturity. We will see what he plans to do when he meets up with Kakashi and Sasuke. When Kakashi dies I will feel your pain

  3. #113
    Deathbringerpt is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by black flash View Post
    I said that aswel that's why it didn't get to me so much when it happened to Naruto.
    Sasuke losing his shit was more than understandable, his entire life was driven by a lie and he had just killed a brother who sacrificed everything for him.

    It still doesn't excuse Naruto.
    Last edited by Deathbringerpt; 02-20-2010 at 07:48 AM.

  4. #114
    Nicholas71 is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    ^In the end I believe Naruto's hyperventilating is somewhat believable because he has the reasons to, just that the timing of it was bad on Kishi's part. I think it's something like Kishi wanting to portray just how the whole issue affects Naruto, but couldn't find the time to do it so he just stuffed it in that chapter. Either way I don't think it makes Naruto any weaker now, because after that I suppose he's over it.

    [B]Why Kakashi can be Hokage[/B
    1) Kakashi has more experience overall - missions involving foreign ninja, which Naruto hasn't seen much of, and also battle tactics involving say, long-distance fighting, which Naruto still does not do too well.

    2) Kakashi is more attuned to politics - I know this isn't everything, but Kakashi is known by just about all the Kages...he in turn probably knows a lot about the other villages and such too. Ninja politics he can handle, whereas Naruto may not be familiar with other villages and how to deal with them and such.

    3) Kakashi is more mature - now Naruto is more mature than before, but Kakashi is still older, wiser and calmer. Kakashi's also more realistic - Naruto still has the emotional baggage of his best friend running off as a fugitive, and so has many things higher on his priority list than becoming Kage right now. He wouldn't be content with sitting round in the village doing paperwork. And also when the time comes, he wouldn't be able to judge Sasuke fairly, on account of him being his friend.

    4) Kakashi has gone through the whole process - Kakashi has done it all - genin, chuunin, jounin. ANBU, even. Of course it's not entirely necessary that the Kage go through all the three stages (who knows if Gaara did) but it certainly would be better if Naruto did right? If he did he'd get more leadership experience plus more experience with missions different to the ones he's had up till now. Also, what's the rush for Naruto to become Hokage? With someone like Kakashi to take up the post first, better to let Naruto wait in the wings and really get himself prepped for the job.




    Now I'm not saying only Kakashi's got what it takes...Naruto has too, but I just think it's not quite right yet. Not yet.

    Heck, the elders may even want to make Naruto Hokage right now, just so they can keep him in the village. And a lot of the people in Konoha would probably agree, Naruto's way way popular there right now. Even Danzo admitted that.

    Story-wise, it somehow seems more poetic if Naruto finally achieves his dream in the end - with a note of finality. Very shonen-like. But anything could happen...

  5. #115
    hawkules is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by krazykwasi View Post
    Was it stated that he could just hold it for 5 minutes in general or was it said during the battle with Pein?? Cause i honestly cant remember. The reason it seems that he can hold it longer right now could be because all he's doing is running and jumping and using his nature sensations to track Kakashi versus when he fought Pein using multiple Rasengan Techs and Shadow clones. Sage mode runs down faster when he uses alot of techniques, which he isn't doing right now.

    Chapter 420 during the training arc. A few sites translated it differently, but the gist is the same. Sage mode is a limited time deal. The copy I have says 5 minutes. Another site has "not very long". But I interpreted as the mode itself was limited no matter what because they didn't specify chakra use or activity.

  6. #116
    hawkules is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by bloodfall View Post
    I think I'm the only one who can, at least, try to understand why the hyperverntilation.

    Man, naruto always struggled for the fact that he would save sasuke.
    He fights pain and get his peace concept crushed, and now he got no answer of what to do.
    Everything naruto did after time skip, (and during time skip) were pointing to sasuke's saving.

    Now, he sees the whole country wanting his head, and he knows that a time will come when he will need to fight sasuke with no hope of saving him.

    DAMN, what the hell would you expect? Did any of you remember that team 7 was naruto's family?
    How would you feel if everyone wanted your brother's head? Would you be happy and say "screw it"?


    Seriously, after everything naruto went through, It's just expected that sooner or later, naruto would show us some panic attack. That turns his character, despite what everyone says, more realistic.

    Although the uchiha tragedy receives much more screen time, Naruto also lost his "family", lost his master, and now, his "brother" becomes a SS ranked criminal. It's not the same kind of trauma, but it's also deep shit. Godamnit, Naruto is a fucked up fella.
    I made this argument before bloodfall. They are not trying to hear it. As the longtime members have posted, "it's weak character development", "he's making Sasuke look stronger" and "he's because he did it". I just want to say that I agree with you. I swear it's like everyone misses the point that the super powered Sasuke, Jesuke or whatever ever they call him did THE EXACT SAME THING when he finally found out the truth about his clan. So I just struggle to understand how Sasuke looks stronger than Naruto because of the hyperventilating ordeal.

    I get the beefed jutsu's, but the hyperventilating episode is nothing but a reality check of epic proportions. BTW the ramen analogy was not a good one, only because hyperventilating is not really in character for any ninja, but to me it just shows their human side so to speak.

  7. #117
    hawkules is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yazen View Post
    I think I've said at least 4 times now that nowhere does it say anything about Sage Mode and 5 minutes. I reread the Pain arc and no. (unless I'm fucking blind which I don't think so.)

    I don't think Naruto is unpredictable outside of fights because he's been shown to be pretty reliable now. Sure he completely ditched Yamamoto but the guy was trying to take him away from all the action. What kind of ninja would he be if he followed him. A lazy one.

    It's a good point that he hasn't had any genins under him yet but that's mostly ninja politics (lame) as Naruto himself is still a genin. I know no one in the village views him as a genin but a doctor without a doctorate is your next door neighbor..feel me? lol

    I know I might get berated for his but Naruto hasn't had a real chance of showing good leadership yet. Every time he's got Yamamoto, Kakashi or a slew of jounins with him. It still doesn't take away from the fact that when he asks them to back off they back off. It's their respect and acknowledgement of his prowess and ability that does that.

    I just want to take this time to say that you've made your point with Naruto being immature at a certain level with his hyperventilation ( which it is in my opinion that he only did this because Kishi FORCED him because of his undying boner for Sasuke) over his pal becoming the #2 criminal of the ninja world.
    HOWEVER I fully believe we are about to see a redemption from Naruto to put everyone's minds to rest about his immaturity. We will see what he plans to do when he meets up with Kakashi and Sasuke. When Kakashi dies I will feel your pain
    About the 5 minutes, I'll reiterate what I said above, I read several translations, the copy I have say 5 minutes, but others have posted limited time. Again Check Chapter 420 page 10 or so. Pa is talking to him telling him the SM is limited. BTW if you are blind, then you are a truly bad MOFO.

    My bad people for posting about arguments that were already made, I didn't read the thread all the way through, but I did want to get my two cents in.

  8. #118
    Yazen is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/433/01/

    This is my proof for sage mode. It's more dependent on his use of rasen bombs.

    and I take your bad mofo comment on a positive note because, quite honestly, I am a bad mofo. haha

    I wasn't aware of the limit itself but the way it's looking now is that it's longer than five minutes without actual use. He was just jumping around with Pa toad. He also had quite a bit of time to train in sage mode longer. He probably could've drawn in more natural energy by the time he fought Pain.

    maybe I'll eat my words in a chapter or so.
    maybe, maybe, maybe.

    On the Sasuke hyperventilating and no one taking it as a big deal was because he really did have a decent excuse. He just killed his brother. Naruto has no excuse. He's pretty much OP in battle and he knows it without having to kill anybody. Sasuke killed his brother for a cause he found was completely ass backwards. There's no comparison on the two. I do think that Nicholas hit it right on the dot though. In that Kishi just wanted to put it in but didn't have time so he put it in early.

  9. #119
    hawkules is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yazen View Post
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/433/01/

    This is my proof for sage mode. It's more dependent on his use of rasen bombs.

    and I take your bad mofo comment on a positive note because, quite honestly, I am a bad mofo. haha

    I wasn't aware of the limit itself but the way it's looking now is that it's longer than five minutes without actual use. He was just jumping around with Pa toad. He also had quite a bit of time to train in sage mode longer. He probably could've drawn in more natural energy by the time he fought Pain.

    maybe I'll eat my words in a chapter or so.
    maybe, maybe, maybe.

    On the Sasuke hyperventilating and no one taking it as a big deal was because he really did have a decent excuse. He just killed his brother. Naruto has no excuse. He's pretty much OP in battle and he knows it without having to kill anybody. Sasuke killed his brother for a cause he found was completely ass backwards. There's no comparison on the two. I do think that Nicholas hit it right on the dot though. In that Kishi just wanted to put it in but didn't have time so he put it in early.


    It's all relative. Who's to say that finding out some info that everything you have fought so hard to preserve is now not possible is any worse then finding out you've been lied to your whole life because you are precious in one persons eyes. Again I can only ask that you check CHAPTER 420 and then tell let me know. But as I've read we all have our opinions of who and who should be fainting and hyperventilating so I good. All I've got to say is GO NA--RU--TO!!!
    Last edited by hawkules; 02-19-2010 at 08:14 PM.

  10. #120
    Kykashi_X is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    About the 5 minute sage mode. I think it only lasted 5 minutes before he found out that he could use his clones to gather the energy for him since it was too difficult to gather energy while moving or what-not; that's what allowed him to hold it for as long as he wanted until he used rasen-shuriken, which cancelled his sage mode and took out the clone gathering energy.
    Last edited by Kykashi_X; 02-19-2010 at 09:09 PM.

 

 
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