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  1. #21
    The Witcher is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldencalf View Post
    Is it really? I don't think so.

    But this is a strong argument actually. Gaara's case is the evidence that you can murder people and get away with it in naruto world.
    I've never said that it's a good thing.
    It just shows that the very same scenario can happen with sasuke. Especially if Kishi justifies his acts by "he was consumed by darkness" crap.

    Yeah, he was drunk when he killed people, but now he's totally sober so let's just, y'know, forget it all.
    I agree that it's a major flaw in the Narutoverse. That's why redeemed villains (textbook example: Vader) usually die in the act of redemption; their bad deeds far outnumber what good they did in the end, so to have them survive and be totally forgiven with would turn them into a major Karma Houdini which could trouble people having a sense of justice.

    In Gaara's case, though, I may argue that compared to Sasuke his situation left him with practically no choice. He never had any happiness in his life; just about everyone around him including his family and the one man he trusted most hated him and wanted him dead. There was no possible outcome of that other than him thinking everyone was out to get him and that he should just kill everybody who crosses him.
    I'M NO HERO, BELIEVE IT!

  2. #22
    x20a is offline Senior Member Frequent Poster
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Witcher View Post
    In Gaara's case, though, I may argue that compared to Sasuke his situation left him with practically no choice. He never had any happiness in his life; just about everyone around him including his family and the one man he trusted most hated him and wanted him dead. There was no possible outcome of that other than him thinking everyone was out to get him and that he should just kill everybody who crosses him.
    This.

    Gaara was just a sad kid from a broken home; he really had no choice in the matter. His whole existence was based on the fact that he was to be a weapon used to kill others. Basically, his case goes: If no one cares for you, why would you care for them?

    Sasuke, on the other hand, had the choice to follow Itachi's dream of peace, as well as numerous chances to change his ways. However, instead, he chose to defile Itachi's will with the blood of others.

  3. #23
    hellfire86 is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/481/01/ It's out. Have fun with that. Also yet again Sasuke can't win a straight fight without Madara saving him.

  4. #24
    Bledge is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Thanks for the link!!!

    As grey as he was, Danzo really cared about the village, and tried to protect the village from his own perspectives and methods.
    And he acknowledged he didn't become Hokage even for a second, that he failed, and it demands more courage than it looks.
    Another question remains, what about Shisui's eye !!!! Is it sealed as well or not?

    How can Madara be so self confident when he has only one eye, one arm, and a complete psychopath next to him

    The part wih Sakura is plain annoying, and drags on the chapter. i'm not sad things can at last move on

  5. #25
    superman420 is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Its been a long time since i looked at the old chapters can any one remind me of what gaara did that was really! bad

    only ppl i remember him killing where ninja fodder in the exam witch was actually ok to kill in the forest part so it seemed

    sound ninja attacked him first so .....same with his uncle? forgot so so

    + his tails beast kinda made him crazy do to lack of sleep i would thank

    Lee kinda messed him self up as well ..

  6. #26
    danzo is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    it's all well and good to say that danzo is a good guy now, but there's still a lot that doesn't make sense.
    Konoha was almost totally obliterated because of danzo (we don't know if root could have prevented the attack, but the fact that he didn't try and sabotaged Naruto's return shows how little he cares about it). The advantage of having Danzo as the leader does not in anyway outweigh the potential damage done to konoha, which is now meant to be what Danzo cares most about.. Also, Danzo was working with Orochimaru, who killed his so-called best buddy Hiruzen.

    I'm dissatisfied with this conclusion for Danzo, it doesn't seem well-thought out. Like it seems Kishimoto was more preoccupied with having the twist of danzo being a good guy, than have it be consistent with his established events in the manga.

    Quote Originally Posted by superman420 View Post
    Its been a long time since i looked at the old chapters can any one remind me of what gaara did that was really! bad

    only ppl i remember him killing where ninja fodder in the exam witch was actually ok to kill in the forest part so it seemed

    sound ninja attacked him first so .....same with his uncle? forgot so so

    + his tails beast kinda made him crazy do to lack of sleep i would thank

    Lee kinda messed him self up as well ..

    There is also a manga scene showing Gaara killing kids of his age, because they were scared of him. I think it's implied that it wasn't an isolated incident. Gaara probably killed innocent people his whole life.
    Last edited by danzo; 02-04-2010 at 04:23 AM.

  7. #27
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    black flash is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    Who ever scanlated and translated this chapter did a piss poor job.

    Danzou wanted to be hokage so much and be the one to protect the village so badly that he was willing to make deals with criminals and even mutilated his own body, he took his own words to literally he should have pulled his ass out of the dark along time ago.

    That flashback also makes what Madara said about the Senju always wanting to keep supremacy over the Uchiha seem like BS, he made it sound like the 2nd gave the possion of hokage to Sarutobi so that he could keep a close watch over the Uchiha when that was never the case.

    I dont even know what to say about Sakura -_-

  8. #28
    The Witcher is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Well, the cat's out of the bag now. After what must be the fourth or fifth 'moral event horizon' moment there's finally little doubt in the unbiased mind what Sasuke stands for now. Kishit did say he'd decide Sasuke's final direction in this fight(Now stick to it instead of handing him a 'Get Out of Punishment Free' card in the end).

    Too bad the vast majority of Jesuke's halfwit fanboys and fangirls still stand up for him. Go over to narutofan and you'll hear arguments like 'Naruto and the Konoha nins killed Akatsuki agents so they're murderers too!' , 'Sasuke isn't lower than trash. Obito's point is invalid because he was an inexperienced genin.' and 'Boohoo! You're biased/ignoring reason/self-contradicting' and other pseudo-intellectual 'arguments' pulled right out the anus. Check out this page and the ones before for a textbook example. I swear, scumbutts like the one calling himself 'Charles..' and the ones whose names start 'K' and 'Fo..' with should be Darwinned for the safety of their fellow men. Their horribly warped viewpoints(All killing = Murder? Including cops and soldiers?) make their existence in our world unsafe. I'm glad I didn't choose narutofan over this site.

    Getting back to the chapter, how does Kishit think that having Sakura fight her teammates will improve readers' opinion of her? What's the point of fighting Sai and letting Sasuke teleport away? If you want to make her look 'more heroic'(as per the latest interview) then show her standing up to Sasuke for once in her entire life!

    And at this point I don't really care about Danzo. I understand Kishi's idea of making him look more sympathetic, but he was willing to let Konoha get destroyed more than once(giving intel to Orochimaru, hiding when Pain attacked) so that he could become Hokage. If that's his idea of saving the ninja world, then no thanks. The ends don't always justicy the means. At most this flashback serves a similar purpose to the scenes of Orochimaru's childhood: it shows that even the biggest villains didn't start out that way.
    Last edited by The Witcher; 02-04-2010 at 04:58 AM.
    I'M NO HERO, BELIEVE IT!

  9. #29
    Deathbringerpt is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Hah, Danzou...a ninja that wanted to make Konoha the strongest military force in the ninja world and a village without pussies....of course he had to die.

    Interesting and awfully realistic character in the series but forgetful participation in it at best. And while it make sense for character such as these to have fail safe jutsus in case of their deaths, Kishimoto is using too much of this method, if not for the fact that they always turn out to be completely useless.

    And from the looks of it Sasuke kills Karin....how lovely. If it turns out that this isn't a ruse from Sasuke, people know what i think of this.


    And i don't see what's the bitching about Sakura here, she wants to face Sasuke alone, simple as that.


    Most of the Uchiharads and Sasuke apologists will now fall back to their last resort argument 'Gaara was forgiven, why not my Jesuke?'
    Because this series is called Naruto.

  10. #30
    hawkules is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by superman420 View Post
    Its been a long time since i looked at the old chapters can any one remind me of what gaara did that was really! bad

    only ppl i remember him killing where ninja fodder in the exam witch was actually ok to kill in the forest part so it seemed

    sound ninja attacked him first so .....same with his uncle? forgot so so

    + his tails beast kinda made him crazy do to lack of sleep i would thank

    Lee kinda messed him self up as well ..

    He killed those two men at the Chuunin exam stadium who were asking him to fix his fight so Sasuke would in. Naruto and Shikamaru witnessed that. And he was going to kill Lee in the hospital bed before he was interrupted.

 

 
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