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  1. #31
    BlueDemon is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by reaperzeero View Post
    Motion seconded- The Third Hokage Hiruzen Sarutobi was probably the (second stongest after the sage of 6 paths) ninja ever.
    The resurrected Hokages werenīt fighting at full power. Donīt even think about it xD
    But he surely was very strong during his prime.

  2. #32
    hawkules is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by danzo View Post
    I'm sure Hanzo and the Iron Sand Kazekage belong on that list somewhere too.
    Probably but all we know about him is that he was the strongest Kazekage but was defeated by Sasori. We need to have more stories about him to determine his power.

    Would be cool for Kishi to do a story backgrounds on the previous kages though. Kind of like the hour special he did with Kakashi getting his sharringan. Wishful thinking huh.

  3. #33
    Stuyvesant is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkules View Post
    Now you just making up excuses. His tails are a hinderence but it's been clearly pointed out that he looses all control from 4 and up. All other high level ninjas have summoning so his don't count. He's the title character so he's suppose to win, but yet he's still considered one of the weaker characters. And this one right here, "Naruto's ability to adapt, this seems to be more deus ex machina, than Naruto actually thinking up useful strategies" that is true bull. He beat Neji a while back by thinking ahead, he beat Kakazu by learning from his mistake during battle and adapting. He beat Pain by adapting during battle. Sage mode does not make him smarter just stronger so his fighting instincts are at a much higher level.

    Naruto is the type of character that tends to get better the longer he battles. I think that is an unheralded and overlooked gift. Dude got three major moves and has 1000 ways to beat you with it (1000 multi-shadow clone excluded). It like giving me some rope and a rock and I come up with 50 different ways to bust your ass with the same rope and rock. They are weak items by themselves in everyones eyes, but it's funny how those two items seem to kick ass everytime. Title character aside, Naruto should be placed higher.
    I'm not hating on Naruto here. I really like the character. I just don't think that he is the master strategist here. I'll grant that he did beat Kakuzu by learning and adapting. It was great to see, but wasn't the norm. Naruto tends to wear opponents down, and through his strength of character win. For lack of a better term, I'll say his 'charisma' is what does it. He didn't beat Pain by adapting. He beat him with Sage strength and his happy attitude.

    You're right in that he does tend to find new and different ways to use the limited tools that he has. This is all good and stuff, but I don't think that qualified him under the 'most powerful person' category. Best use of limited tools category maybe.

  4. #34
    The Witcher is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by hawkules View Post
    Not a bad list. Hate to be petty but this information is a little false. He can use rasenshiruken in normal mode, he is just unable to throw it. And I am curious you would not include 3 tail Naruto in this argument. I mean I think it only fair being that you give KB full props. With Naruto in three tails he has strength, speed and more than normal reach. True enough he is limited with techniques but let us have this discussion in six more months to see what lies ahead.

    Personally I think Naruto's improvisation skills make him much more dangerous than mostly all these ninjas listed. He tends to adapt better to each opponent that he fights even with the limited amount of jutsu, but if you ask me Sage mode put him further up Witchers list even if it is five minute limit. Oh yea also his summoning should be taken into account as well
    Rasenshuriken is a no-go because of the damage and so is Kyuubi because he can't stop the tails from increasing beyond three.

    You seem to be misunderstanding the wishes of readers like myself(pretty common misunderstanding). I don't want Narutu to turn into a walking repository of jutsus. Now I understand that's not his thing; I just want Naruto to be legitimately strong. For him to be able to have a battle plan that consists of something more than 'Distract him till I can get into one of my limited uber-modes'.

    Think about it, for all the praise he gets, could Naruto accomplish feats like, say, beating up an army of Curse-seal monsters or samurai(something Sasuke and his team do casually using only taijutsu)? No. He needs prep time to enter Sage Mode first. Without that little bit of plot advantage he's as weak as he was in Part 1, which was strong back then but is inadequate now with the rising standards of enemies. As creative as he is there's only so far he can go with Kagebunshin/Rasengan variations without it seeming like he's getting more plot assistance or sheer luck to win(like how Pain couldn't detect his henged Kagebunshin rocks, or how he couldn't dodge the final Rasengan even after dodging the faster Rasenshuriken).

    In short, I want regular Naruto to be strong, so that like Jiraiya he can actually stand a chance against strong opponents when he's not in Kyuubi/Sage/Kyuubi-Sage mode or whatever. Let him learn one or two ranged wind jutsus(that's a major weakness without Sage Mode). Or, if Kishit has a taboo against actually letting him learn jutsu, give him chakra knives like Asuma's. That will give him some serious combat strength outside of Sage Mode, enable him to counter Sasuke's lightning blades and also allow him to extend his range via the Flying Swallow technique, thereby killing three birds with one stone.

    It seems that Kishi has finally realised my point, with Madara's recent comment about how KB/Rasengan(which is all Naruto could do when attacking without prep time) alone wouldn't work against ninjas like him. Whether he'll do anything about it remains to be seen...
    Last edited by The Witcher; 01-06-2010 at 02:54 PM.
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  5. #35
    hella is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Witcher View Post
    Rasenshuriken is a no-go because of the damage and so is Kyuubi because he can't stop the tails from increasing beyond three.

    You seem to be misunderstanding the wishes of readers like myself(pretty common misunderstanding). I don't want Narutu to turn into a walking repository of jutsus. Now I understand that's not his thing; I just want Naruto to be legitimately strong. For him to be able to have a battle plan that consists of something more than 'Distract him till I can get into one of my limited uber-modes'.

    Think about it, for all the praise he gets, could Naruto accomplish feats like, say, beating up an army of Curse-seal monsters or samurai(something Sasuke and his team do casually using only taijutsu)? No. He needs prep time to enter Sage Mode first. Without that little bit of plot advantage he's as weak as he was in Part 1, which was strong back then but is inadequate now with the rising standards of enemies. As creative as he is there's only so far he can go with Kagebunshin/Rasengan variations without it seeming like he's getting more plot assistance or sheer luck to win(like how Pain couldn't detect his henged Kagebunshin rocks, or how he couldn't dodge the final Rasengan even after dodging the faster Rasenshuriken).

    In short, I want regular Naruto to be strong, so that like Jiraiya he can actually stand a chance against strong opponents when he's not in Kyuubi/Sage/Kyuubi-Sage mode or whatever. Let him learn one or two ranged wind jutsus(that's a major weakness without Sage Mode). Or, if Kishit has a taboo against actually letting him learn jutsu, give him chakra knives like Asuma's. That will give him some serious combat strength outside of Sage Mode, enable him to counter Sasuke's lightning blades and also allow him to extend his range via the Flying Swallow technique, thereby killing three birds with one stone.

    It seems that Kishi has finally realised my point, with Madara's recent comment about how KB/Rasengan(which is all Naruto could do when attacking without prep time) alone wouldn't work against ninjas like him. Whether he'll do anything about it remains to be seen...
    yes, my points exactly, atleast more sage jutsus and his dad's jutsus if kishi wont give him elemental jutsus
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  6. #36
    hawkules is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Nice points but I do believe the group is overthinking his limitations. We assume he can't stop at 3 tails cause he hasn't been there in a while. But on the other hand he's been written to be a little angrier about his circumstances. His rasenshiruken has only been developed since his sage training and he really did need to be in sage mode for pain. Since then there have been no fights for him.

    If anybody thinks that Sasuke would not have to pull out all the stops on Pein then you were not reading the same manga as me. Again though your points are valid but I tell you what since Pains fight Sasuke 3 major fights. Lets see what Kishi has for Naruto after three more fights and then we can come back to this.

    Oh BTW, because of the relationship and training that they have shown him do with his frogs, I give him a few more advantage points over other summons that we have witnessed. That is until Sasukes Hawk summoning does a lightening combo, then I facepalm it.

  7. #37
    ikari is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Since Madara is the Big Bad now and he comments that Naruto, the main character of this manga, based on current circumstances cannot beat him, you can be sure that will eventually change.

    Otherwise, I agree with Witcher, but I doubt Naruto will get any chakrablades anytime soon.

  8. #38
    jejunice is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    naruto? or sasuke?

  9. #39
    hella is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    chakra blades are pretty badass, it might actually make naruto look cool even he has one of his blank looks on his face - but naruto can never beat Madara without learning a similar space-time jutsu,

    Madara just teleports people and himself to different places while acting non-chalant
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  10. #40
    The Witcher is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    No, but if people don't want Naruto to actually learn more jutsus having chakra blades would be a good compromise; it'd give him some legitimate combat strength outside of Sage and Kyuubi mode. That way he could keep fighting even after the time limit runs out(without relying on plot armor to win) and it'd also lessen his weakness in ranged attacks(since Madara can teleport and Sasuke has a Hawk summon now).

    Either that or make Sage Mode permanent like the Raikage's Raiton shield. I can't stand the thought of Naruto being a (relative) weakling who's useless on his own and has to buy time to transform into some uber-mode in order to win all his major fights.
    Last edited by The Witcher; 01-08-2010 at 02:04 AM.
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