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  1. #21
    artifice is offline Senior Member Regular
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    It really isn't as simple as labeling someone the strongest flat out, other than Rikudou who was clearly on a level of his own. People need to understand that this is a series were different characters each have their own advantages and disadvantages depending on who they fight. Hashirama defeated Madara but that doesn't necessarily make him more powerful than Minato, it just means that he had a skill set that was better suited to deal with Madara. Sasori was a total monster when you think about it, he defeated the most powerful Kazekage and he used him as a puppet. With his poison, the Third Kazekage, and over a hundred other puppets at his disposal he could have beaten almost anyone. So why did he lose to Chiyo and Sakura, because it was a bad match up. They had an antidote to his poison, Chiyo knew most of his abilities, they were both medical ninja, etc. Just because someone loses it does not necessarily make them weaker than their opponent. It is largely a matter of circumstance.

    I am sure Minato is probably around the same level as Hashirama, he might be a bit weaker but really it is more about their particular abilities. Another thing to consider is that Hashirama had the power to bend Bijuu to his will, that is a huge factor in his strength, if he happens to have access to all or several of the bijuu during a fight, naturally he is going to be nearly unstoppable. If he is alone, however, it would be a very different story.

    Another thing to consider is location, look at someone like Gaara who uses sand to fight, in the dessert it was said that he is truly a monster because he has a nearly limitless amount of sand and he does not need to use his chakra to make it (as was the case when he fought Kimimarro. The same is true of someone who specializes in water, if that person is near a lake or ocean they are far more dangerous because they can manipulate the water around them and do not need to use as much chakra to create it from their own body. This has been mentioned multiple times, for example we saw the Second Hokage use powerful water techniques when he was nowhere near water, that was considered impressive but needless to say he would have been better equipped if he was near a large amount of water.

    Then there are the cases of handicaps or particular weaknesses. Pain/Nagato is a good example. If his opponent doesn't know how his abilities work then he is essentially unbeatable. If all of his abilities are known, however, his opponent can divide his bodies and destroy them according to each of their particular weaknesses (as we saw with Naruto). If Naruto didn't know Pain's abilities he would have been in a far more dangerous predicament because he wouldn't have known how to go about attacking each of Pain's bodies. Jiraiya, on the other had, was at a major disadvantage against Pain because he wasted a great deal of his chakra just trying to figure out what each of Pain's bodies could do and because he didn't know about Pain's abilities he let his guard down, lost an arm and got killed. If he had known all of Pains abilities from the start, like Naruto did, he could have gone into combat with a much more clear idea of what to do and what not to do.

    Obviously there are varying degrees of power but basically there are levels of skill where it really just depends on the match ups. Obviously people like Minato, Itachi, Hashirama, Nagato, Sarutobi (in his prime) etc. are going to be in the top tier but who among them is the strongest is very hard to say flat out. For one because we have a very limited understanding of what all those characters were truly capable of and we don't know how their powers would work against each other.
    Last edited by artifice; 12-19-2009 at 11:59 AM.

  2. #22
    America~ is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    Pein easily. The way he bet jiraiya was incredible.

  3. #23
    KyungMin is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    chapter 144 page 10 itachi and kisame wouldn't attack jiraiya because they said how strong hewas or something like that.. so why hasnt anyone said Jiraiya?
    Also I think the fourth is stronger than the first and the second because when Sarutobi was fighting orochimaru he said he had to stop the third coffin no matter what..
    i would say not in this order but.. these are the top five.. I'd put minato or sarutobi on top tho
    Minato
    Saruboti
    Jiraiya
    Killerbee
    Itachi
    Last edited by KyungMin; 01-04-2010 at 01:36 AM.

  4. #24
    elnino19 is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    madara:no matter what he says about how weak he is, he can beat practically anyone.

    pain:he was arrogant to think he'd take naruto like that, but he can kick ass.

    itachi:if he goes straight to susanoo, theres no stopping him.

    first:he did the stupid thing of giving away jinchuuriki, other wise he'd have kicked ass.

    third/fourth:at their prime they would have ben more or less equally powerful.

    kisame\E: both are stronger than killer bee..

    killer bee

    sasuke

    kakashi

    naruto

  5. #25
    Ryoga-san is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    I'm curious how strong Kimimaro would be if he would have been physically healthy and survived the time skip.

  6. #26
    hawkules is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Witcher View Post
    We know legends like Rokudo, Madara and the Yondaime only by reputation; we've never actually seen any showings from them so it wouldn't exactly be fair to compare them to the younger characters.

    Of the ninjas we've seen in action, I'll just list the ones that are still alive based on their past showings:

    1. Madara: All we've seen him do so far is teleport and suck people into another dimension. Not the most visually impressive, but from what we've seen his attack can't be countered and he himself is impervious to harm. With that repertoire he can beat anyone given enough time.

    2. Killer Bee: Almost as powerful as the Kyuubi and in complete control of that power. It's pretty much impossible for any ninja to match his power with power given chakra limitations and so on. Unless they steal his chakra, but with Samehada that's one of his tricks now.

    3. Sasuke: All it takes is a little logical thinking: to begin with he's a top-tier genjutsu user, a master of diverse elemental ninjutsu(even if these days he tends to forget that fact), superhumanly fast, and to top it off wields a super-sharp lightning sword. We're talking about the ideal ninja here. Oh yeah: and there's still the Mangekyo to account for.

    4. Raikage: His lack of any spectacular mass-destruction jutsus stands out among the Kages, but being able to move so fast that even the Sharingan can't see you is a very effective way to avoid any form of ninjutsu or genjutsu. The lightning-enhanced taijutsu is the icing on the cake.

    5. Mizukage/Gaara: It's a toss-up between the two. On one hand Mizukage's acid/lava techniques have a lot more offensive power but Gaara's sand is a lot more versatile. He be ranked higher if he still had the Shukaku.

    6. Naruto: Surprised to see him this low? To be honest I wasn't entirely sure he even belonged this high. Again, logical thinking; despite the periodic verbal hype that puts him on Kakashi/Yondaime/Sasuke's level, his only real weapon against high-level opponents is Sage Mode. He can only use Rasensuriken in Sage Mode. He has super speed, strength and durability only in Sage Mode. So he can go toe-to-toe with the best, but only for a few minutes. After that he's Special Jounin level at best, with a single attack jutsu(Rasengan) that's not very hard to counter and an army of Shadow clones that would be mere fodder for any powerful ninja. I refuse to factor in the Kyuubi because for him it's more hindrance than help.

    7. Kakashi: He's essentially a weaker version of Sasuke(which is ironic since Sasuke started out like a weaker version of him). He's well-learned in all the ninja arts, but thanks to chakra limitations(and poor writing) he's rarely seen using anything other than Raikiri or the odd dojutsu. Hmm, wouldn't making him Hokage make Konoha look weak to the other Kages?

    8. From here you could include Yamato and the bodyguards of the various Kages.

    Whew. Took me half an hour to type.
    Not a bad list. Hate to be petty but this information is a little false. He can use rasenshiruken in normal mode, he is just unable to throw it. And I am curious you would not include 3 tail Naruto in this argument. I mean I think it only fair being that you give KB full props. With Naruto in three tails he has strength, speed and more than normal reach. True enough he is limited with techniques but let us have this discussion in six more months to see what lies ahead.

    Personally I think Naruto's improvisation skills make him much more dangerous than mostly all these ninjas listed. He tends to adapt better to each opponent that he fights even with the limited amount of jutsu, but if you ask me Sage mode put him further up Witchers list even if it is five minute limit. Oh yea also his summoning should be taken into account as well

  7. #27
    Stuyvesant is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    I'd tend to agree with Witcher on the Naruto thing though.

    Any number of tails, and we're talking about a loss of control here - to some degree or another. I think that counts against him. He does have the summoning, but so do most other high level ninja.

    As for Naruto's ability to adapt, this seems to be more deus ex machina, than Naruto actually thinking up useful strategies. He wins battles because he's the main character, not because he deserves to.

  8. #28
    hawkules is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Now you just making up excuses. His tails are a hinderence but it's been clearly pointed out that he looses all control from 4 and up. All other high level ninjas have summoning so his don't count. He's the title character so he's suppose to win, but yet he's still considered one of the weaker characters. And this one right here, "Naruto's ability to adapt, this seems to be more deus ex machina, than Naruto actually thinking up useful strategies" that is true bull. He beat Neji a while back by thinking ahead, he beat Kakazu by learning from his mistake during battle and adapting. He beat Pain by adapting during battle. Sage mode does not make him smarter just stronger so his fighting instincts are at a much higher level.

    Naruto is the type of character that tends to get better the longer he battles. I think that is an unheralded and overlooked gift. Dude got three major moves and has 1000 ways to beat you with it (1000 multi-shadow clone excluded). It like giving me some rope and a rock and I come up with 50 different ways to bust your ass with the same rope and rock. They are weak items by themselves in everyones eyes, but it's funny how those two items seem to kick ass everytime. Title character aside, Naruto should be placed higher.

  9. #29
    reaperzeero is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Quote Originally Posted by thirdfang View Post
    I dunno. The third was known to be a beast in his prime. And even as an old geezer he managed to take out the first, the second and horrendously cripple Orochimaru before finally dying. My money's on him.
    Motion seconded- The Third Hokage Hiruzen Sarutobi was probably the (second stongest after the sage of 6 paths) ninja ever.

  10. #30
    danzo is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    I'm sure Hanzo and the Iron Sand Kazekage belong on that list somewhere too.

 

 
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