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  1. #1
    Nicholas71 is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Default Is water the weakest element ever in Naruto?

    I was thinking this the other day...I'm sure I'm not the first to notice it, but I thought there's a bit more to discuss.

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/333/12/

    From this we can see that Water is strong against Fire, but weak against Earth. That alone would be normal, however...

    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/463/09/

    From here however we see that Water is weak against Lightning too...

    So anyway, do you think this only applies to Suigetsu and his liquid form or does it apply to all water in general? Though logically speaking the lightning is simply conducted by the water...which would mean if you cast a water jutsu at someone and if he counters with a lightning jutsu, it may not block your technique (after all, it's a mass of water tumbling at you...some electricity's not gonna deflect it.

    I'm quite inclined to believe that water isn't exactly weak against lightning, jutsu-wise...just that if you're someone who can assume a watery form, lightning isn't your best friend...I mean, even if water is weak against earth, I'm sure that if you throw a rock at Suigetsu he'll just liquidise and reform, no problem.

    But what do you people think? Is it that way, or is Water the weakest lousiest element here? Is Lightning an unfairly strong element? Or did I just waste my time doing this (I think you'll choose that last one...)

  2. #2
    MadDogMike is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    I think that has nothing to do with the fact that Suigetsu's main element is water. He's just a human, and electricity will cause a person to lose control of their body.

    Also, it's not that a person whose main element is water is weak against the earth element (what would happen if a person was adept in both water and lightning?). The way it works is that water elemental jutsus are weak vs earth elemental jutsus.

  3. #3
    Bledge is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Considering the circle of elements from the first pic you posted, here is my thought.
    The element you consider is very weak against the one from his left, and just weak against the second element from the left.
    Conversely, it is very strong against the first element to its right and just strong against the second.

    That's my two cents

  4. #4
    Nicholas71 is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    ^Haha that's interesting. So:
    Water>>Fire
    Water>Wind
    Water<<Earth
    Water<Lightning

    Is that it? But do you think it only applies to the two elements beside it...I mean, if you keep going left from Water you'll end up at Fire, so does that mean it's only very slightly weak against fire? Don't think so haha.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadDogMike View Post
    I think that has nothing to do with the fact that Suigetsu's main element is water. He's just a human, and electricity will cause a person to lose control of their body.

    Also, it's not that a person whose main element is water is weak against the earth element (what would happen if a person was adept in both water and lightning?). The way it works is that water elemental jutsus are weak vs earth elemental jutsus.
    Actually, I WAS talking about the jutsus when I said water was weak against earth. But then I should have mentioned 'jutsus' instead of just mentioning elements so...point taken. I did realise that it would be kinda silly for someone with water affinity to be naturally weaker to someone with earth affinity - this ain't Pokemon. But I was particularly interested in Suigetsu's situation since he's almost like the essence of the water element, and he did say..."am I just too weak against Raitons?" or something like that.

    But your explanation makes sense...it's very likely he just lost control of his body. Paralysed, I guess you could say. Yeah. Now I think about it one time Yamato got stabbed by Sasuke's sword with Chidori running through it and he mentioned he was going numb. Hmm.

  5. #5
    laifar is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    i kinda agree with Bledge's thought......the "stronger and weaker" thing maybe just applies to two elements beside it, and the circle stops there, coz that will match with the idea that none of the elements is superior against all others.....
    water --> weakest vs earth, weaker vs lightning, strongest to fire, stronger to wind
    fire --> weakest vs water, weaker vs earth, strongest to wind, stronger to lighting
    wind --> weakest vs fire, weaker vs water, strongest to lightning, stronger to earth

    but then, it also depends on the level of the jutsu...... even if fire is superior to wind, it will lose if the level of fire-jutsu is weaker than that of wind.....this is also said by yamato in
    http://www.onemanga.com/Naruto/333/12/

    while with suigetsu lose against lightning, well of-course, it's Raikage afterall, right? his level of jutsu is the lvl of tailed-beast.....and yamato's fight with sasuke, imo, him going numb is the effect of sasuke's jutsu (extention of chidori jutsu)...coz naruto is also paralyzed with that jutsu....so i guess no matter what kind of element you are, you'll get paralyzed if you get stabbed by sasuke.....
    well, that's just my thought......

  6. #6
    Ryoga-san is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Lightning doesn't necessariy weaken water. It can be used very efficiently in collaboration attacks to create water charged with electricity. Water can't create collaboration attacks with earth because it would turn the water to mud and it can't be controlled by the user. Water and wind as well as water and lightning are very good combinations for collaboration.

  7. #7
    Bledge is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ryoga-san View Post
    Lightning doesn't necessariy weaken water. It can be used very efficiently in collaboration attacks to create water charged with electricity. Water can't create collaboration attacks with earth because it would turn the water to mud and it can't be controlled by the user. Water and wind as well as water and lightning are very good combinations for collaboration.
    That's an interesting point, collabation of two elements (not talking about kekkai genkai, and fused new element).
    We saw Wind rasengan + Yamato's water jutsu against Kakuzu, creating an effective mini-typhoon.

    The more chakra you put into your jutsu, the biggest the effect.
    We all agree fire is extinguished by water.
    But water can turn into mist if the fire is strong enough.
    The same as wind can nullify flames or increase them ^^

    So it seems there is more than actual physical law and Kishi's circle of elements, and it's up to Kishi to expand the subject on elements

  8. #8
    mr_zoot is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    I think water rules. The imprisoning and drowning jutsus that Zabuza and Kisame used seem pretty strong. Strong enough to beat Kakashi, Jounin-Neji, etc. The Second Hokage could presumably bust a serious ass beating with water. Its probably all in the application.

  9. #9
    danzo is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Kishi messed up, that's all.

    He started playing some final fantasy and noticed that Thunder does more damage to ice and water based bad guys, and he forgot all about his cycle of element drawings.

  10. #10
    The Witcher is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Like danzo said. Kishi's elemental affinities have become inconsistent over time. Judging by that circle diagram water and lightning should have no particular strength or weakness with respect to each other, since the superiorities/inferiorities would cancel each other out.

    I think part of the reason Kishi's Sasuke haxing pasttime. Since lightning is Sasuke's most commonly used element he keeps showing it progressively stronger from fight to fight. Like how wind chakra was supposed to be specialised for cutting but both Sasuke and Killer Bee's lightning makes for more effective cutting jutsus than anything Naruto has.

    Then again this sort of logic was never Kishimoto's strong point. Lightning beats Earth? Earth GROUNDS lightning, you dumbass! And how exactly is earth superior to water when in real life water erodes and weakens it? This manga was written by a guy who came dead last in high school and never went to college(no offense meant), so don't look for scientific accuracy in it.
    Last edited by The Witcher; 04-14-2010 at 07:10 AM.
    I'M NO HERO, BELIEVE IT!

 

 
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