I hope some some main characters got caught in that blast. I don't think many would actually care if, say, Chōji and Kiba died.
Pain is sort of becoming my favourite character. I hope he'll be able to raise some more Hell.
I think that we'll have to see the 3 of them together before we see what supposedly-awesome thing they're going to summon. fukasaku said it took the 3 of them, right? so it could be that Shima just summoned the rest of them first.
I don't think that agreeing with your points counts as being unbiased. I think we're all unbiased, because its just our opinion. we might be biased if, say, we have a personal vendetta against you, but just because some of them don't agree with you means they're biased. neither are they biased because they didn't entirely read all your posts.Thank you! Thank you! Finally an unbiased poster who actually took the time to read my posts before commenting on them. And you also re-stated all my relevant points in a more concise manner than I could ever have done.
having said that, I also agree that you're entitled to your opinion. you're not crazy over naruto, even if the others like him. that's fine.
but in my opinion, naruto is meant to be...a sort of underdog kind of character who succeeds despite his shortcomings. i don't think kishi ever planned him to be the overpowered main character that so many other mangas have. his strength is supposed to be his personality, which is brave and determined in spite of his supposed stupidity. the character that's supposed to be overpowered is sasuke.
oh, and i don't think kakuzu was really weak. i mean, he brought out all his chakra and stuff, and he still had those fire and wind attacks. if naruto had fought him earlier, it would probably have turned out the same, since he would've been crippled after the attack, leaving them to kill his remaining hearts at their leisure.
so, witcher, you're actually right. naruto will never be the most diverse in terms of ninjutsu (though he will by now have taijutsu skills, and zero genjutsu), but he'll still be the one who succeeds DESPITE this. I think that's the main theme of this character, and I think your views are more realistic than anything else. so you're not really that wrong. but the thing is, that's how naruto is supposed to be. so i guess you'll have to live with it being that way in the manga.
but like i said, you're right.
Here is my take on everything: first off, Naruto and Sauske are about even. They have both "won" their fights in this part of Naruto, but with outside conditions that make their respective opponents weaker (exeption is elemental superiority for Sasuske/Deidra fight).
Now for the chapter at hand: The "explosion" was a force outward demolishing everything. As far as survivors, most of the Leaf Nin, but few civies (mainly the handfull that could have been evacuated during the attack). To me it looked like the center of the blast was also the Hakage's house, and is now the center of the crater (I'll get to why this might be important latter).
In the end we do see three seperate, large, and presumabely powerfull, summons come up from the center of the crater. Now I know that this isn't a problem (I hope) for a summoner of the frog scroll, but we have always seen the frogs themselves use water for a medium. Personally I'm willing to bet that one of these is Gama Bunta, and the others are other strong frog warriors (possibaly with Naruto).
Here comes the part where the center of the crator might be important: water has always collected at the lowest point.
Ma Toad summons the 3 great Toad warriors, but they need a body of water to come out of (since Ma Toad isn't a summoner from the scroll). The nearest body of water large enough to exit from happens to be the newly formed crator in the center of the village.
Quite frankly I think it would be cool to see this with Naruto on Gama, and Ma and Pa on each of the other toads.
On a side note: I think Sakura's scream for Naruto was more like a plea from Bulma, or when Chi Chi is fretting over a fight that Gohan is in.
I don't think Naruto is an underdog, or, at least, he stopped being one long ago. I've really never understood why people keep regarding him as such. He may act clumsy from time to time, but that's only for the comic relief, and that's actually part of his charm.
^in a way, yes. he's past that stage, and we now see that the village mostly respects him. but what i meant was that he's supposed to portray that sort of character. that he's supposed to be the focus of a story where the main character isn't a genius from the start, but an underdog who grows past his disadvantages and succeeds. i think that's what its about.
and i agree about the charm thing. i'm sure most people would rather make friends with naruto than sasuke. or at least they'd find it easier.
I actually wonder if Naruto was ever actually an underdog. Sure, he sucked at school, but he's always done fairly well in actual combat. In addition, even if you do not count the fact he has the power of Kyūbi at his disposal (although, not precisely under his control), he still has loads of chakra to pull techniques most ninjas would only be able to pull once (and which some would probably be unable to pull at all).
Does anyone else think it's a possibility that the thing Naruto, Pa and Ma summoned was actually a large part of Konoha itself, to save it from the 'explosion'? Here are my reasons for thinking this is a (very slight) possibility:
- Pa did say something along the lines of "with the three of us, we should be able to summon something very large", but he didn't say that it was a living thing. We've already seen people summon inanimate objects before (Jiraiya's swamp of the underworld summon, etc).
- Ma cast her summoning jutsu before the 'explosion' hit, this could be the reason why.
- Ma was in Konoha, while Pa and Naruto were at toad mountain. How could they perform a summoning jutsu together from such a distance apart? Maybe it's possible that they could create a conduit between their two locations to transfer someone/something between the two places.
Anyway, this is a very exaggerated and unlikely scenario, but we all know that Kishimoto does not normally like to kill off his characters and killing off this many at once seems very unlike him. I'm expecting him to come up with some outrageous way of having all his favourite characters survive and this could be it.
EDIT: My mistake, I misread Pa's quote on summoning. He actually said something "strong" not "large". Still, I'm expecting Kishimoto to come up with some ridiculous way of saving most of them.
Last edited by MadDogMike; 12-20-2008 at 04:36 AM.
i think he was viewed as an underdog because he did so badly in the academy, which was more because he didn't have a real outlet to vent his frustration. and he also wasn't very ninja-like earlier on, and had near zero stealth (always shouting and all). but in some ways, yes, he was an underdog, because he had mediocre taijutsu skills, no genjutsu skills whatsoever, and only basic ninjutsu, which everyone had.
the only real thing he had for himself was kage bunshin, which of course he didn't make full use of till now. but the reason he did so well was because he can actually be kinda smart sometimes, and not give up. i guess that's why.
as for the summoning theory, i don't think that happened. for one, i thought pa toad said 'we can summon something pretty strong', not large (not sure on this, can someone check?). also, we already saw that one large chunk of konoha was blasted off the face of the earth (unless you meant that THAT was the part that was summoned). but if it was a summoning, i'd expect the village to go POOF! and not BANG! and I don't think sakura would have been so desperate if konoha was merely summoned.
anyway, i think the summoning is just naruto and pa toad, or some way to connect them, so they can all do that 'big' summoning he was talking about.
itd be hillarious if they summoned naruto just before the explosion and he was killed, just straight up right underneath pain.
Horrible end, but i'd laugh, i don't think naruto is really ready to fight yet, but he learns through battle fastest so we'll see if he fights or just rescues.
"Knowing is not enough, we must apply.
Willing is not enough, we must do."
- Bruce lee