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  1. #101
    himeji is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJaggid View Post
    ^ Wait, seriously?
    Jiraiya: Nin 5 - Tai 4.5 - Gen 3 - Int 4.5 - Str 4.5 - Spe 4.5 - Sta 5 - Sea 4.5 (35.5)

    Orochimaru: Nin 5 - Tai 3.5 - Gen 5 - Int 5 - Str 3.5 - Spe 4.5 - Sta 3.5 - Sea 5 (35)

    Seriously.

  2. #102
    TheJaggid is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    ^ Rats. That settles that then.

    May those who accept their fate be granted happiness; to those who defy it, glory.

  3. #103
    DivineVTDragon is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJaggid View Post
    Because obviously a split second shuriken to the face would destroy all possibilities of him getting away, right? No. And to counter your terrible example,which was obviously more of a mercy than a "oh shit cant kill gotta go" thing, there's the Naruto v Sasuke battle. Sasuke drilling his f-ing chidori into Naruto's chest and Naruto still surviving are a perfect example of my earlier argument of there not being much difference between killing and taking them out.
    Because every major character dies to a shuriken in the face right? Your horribad argument of Sasuke's will to kill proves in my favor against yours because SASUKE WAS IN IT TO KILL JUST LIKE OROCHI, Naruto and Jiraiya was not. The reason why Sasuke stopped was because he didn't want to take his brother's path. Obviously a mercy? How was that mercy when she was preventing him from moving on, which as you put:

    obviously a split second shuriken to the face
    See your contradiction here?

    Feel free to prove me wrong but I don't think Orochi was after the destruction of Konoha back when he ran away, I think was still just after immortality. Like Sasuke the whole Konoha destruction thing didn't come until later. If that's true then no one can really say that Jiraiya and Naruto are unalike Sasuke and him meet again.
    He ran away because he was caught creating experiments. Which Anbu was still following him, but Jiraiya apparantly caught him first.

    Third: Sure, they could have worked HAD OROCHI NOT BEEN STRONGER THAN HIM. Further, it's a no f-ing brainer that Itachi would have escaped Jiraiya's jutsu, since he IS stronger than Orochi.
    No they couldn't work because you don't understand the shounen law "Interrogtion attacks don't work on major villains." Please show me a scene where a stronger character uses a "capture" jutsu and it actually capturing the enemy.

    Again it was unclear to who was stronger at that time. "Orochi won therefore he must be stronger," is a bad way of looking at strength.

    Anyways, the fact that Sarutobi favored Orochi over Jiraiya and that he even went so far as to call him a genius that only appears once every generation is proof enough that Orochi was better than Jiraiya.
    That "Fact" was when they started training, back when they were starting out. In the end Jiraiya's stats outweigh Oro.

  4. #104
    himeji is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheJaggid View Post
    ^ Rats. That settles that then.
    But I suppose stats don't really matter...after all Shikamaru was waaaay weaker than Hidan, yet he could still kill him.

    Hidan: Nin 5 - Tai 4.5 - Gen 3 - Int 3 - Str 4 - Spe 3.5 - Sta 5 - Sea 3.5 (31.5)

    Shikamaru: Nin 3.5 - Tai 2 - Gen 3 - Int 5 - Str 2 - Spe 2.5 - Sta 3 - Sea 3 (24)

    ....yeah....

  5. #105
    Heartlessfang is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    ^ Shika isn't a person you wanna fight twice. Once they met up again it was over for Hidan. Otherwise the first time they fought against those two, Shika and his team were screwed. Royally.

    "You have other hearts trapped within you as well, dont you?"
    "You're that guy from last time! What are you talking about?!"
    "The other Hearts within you."
    "Hearts trapped within me....?"

  6. #106
    himeji is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    ^ Actually...the thing is that Hidan totally screwed up that fight. His arrogance led to his downfall...otherwise he could have easily won. The other funny thing is that based on stats, Asuma was stronger than Hidan...lol

  7. #107
    krazykwasi is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    In other words its more than just stats that desides a battle. You could say jiraiya's stats are better than orochi's, by .5, so he'll win in a fight but thats not how the real world works. If it was all about stats then naruto would've lost against gaara, neji, and kakuza. To me in naruto its not all about intelligence and cunning with a hint of luck.

    "He is now declaring his words to the WORLD!"

  8. #108
    himeji is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    ^ well said.

  9. #109
    TheJaggid is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    @VT
    Your 'how main characters die' argument is meaningless, not only because a simple shuriken to the face is actually quite tragic, nor because that cheaply goes against the general logic this entire discussion has been about, but because regardless Orochimaru not taking him out when he could for other reasons was entirely possible. Your 'because he was in a hurry' reasoning is a lot less probable than any others that have to do with, say, familiarity or even entertainment (this is Orochi, after all).

    'She was preventing him from moving on?' What the fuck are you talking about??

    And Interrogation attacks? Who the hell said anything about interrogation attacks?

    Sasuke's intent to kill has NOTHING to do with the outcome. Both him and Naruto went at each other at full force and Sasuke's attack was the only one to land a clean hit, whereas Naruto could only manage to scratch his forehead protector. You can bitch and moan about how Naruto didn't want to do much damage, but guess what else he didn't want? TO LOSE.

    So you can agree about how Jiraiya was def weaker than Orochi back when they were children, but you can't even fathom the idea that he was still stronger when he ran away?

    Anyways, I've said it before and I'll say it again, especially now that even the stats issue is up in the air: I'm still at ends over who's truly stronger. I'm still waiting for you to give me solid proof that Jiraiya was def stronger than Orochi from the moment Oro ran away to the time that they had died. Right now it seems like we're just going in circles inside little micro-arguments that make up the whole.

    May those who accept their fate be granted happiness; to those who defy it, glory.

  10. #110
    InfernoVia is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    Quote Originally Posted by DivineVTDragon View Post
    Being a Sannin doesn't mean much to Kishimoto anymore. One of the Sannin was defeated so quickly, even when he used his most powerful snake transformation Jutsu, that it only lasted for 3 seconds before he was stabbed. The time of old villains like Orochimaru is over since we now have villains like Madara and Pain, who bossed around villains like Orochimaru (Orochimaru was in Akatsuki, even for a small peroid of time).

    Orochimaru was not stronger than Jiraiya. In their battle when they were younger Orochimaru had intent to kill, Jiraiya didn't, so I doubt he used Ma and Pa sennin mode (who only uses it when he KNOWS he is in danger and against a more powerful enemy). Even so, he was defeated later on by Itachi, who was (in my opinion of course) slightly weaker than Sage Jiraiya.

    Also, after Pain is defeated by Naruto (which, we know is gonna happen), then he will ahve become stronger than Jiraiya. It's already being stated that he's catching up to Jiraiya at an incredible rate. Where would Kabuchimaru fit in, unless we are to say that his threat is so big that it outshadows Pain/Madara, which I highly doubt.
    I just want to point out, there isn't THAT much difference in knocking someone out and killing em. This is even easier if you have a weapon of high power. A shot at the kneecap will incapacitate as many people as a shot to the brain. Similarly, when you get someone in a sleeper hold, the difference between dead and unconscious isn't that far.

    This is only considering even-leveled fighters that can take damage as well as dish it out.

 

 
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