Sorry for taking so long to reply to you witcher, but by asking questions, with question marks and everything! I don't see how i was putting words in your mouth. The only thing i said that even remotely got close was "If the things you complain about were fixed in the sense where you wouldn't complain about them, where the hero is always the hero, and is always strong with little hardship or real effort in his way to victory, with no real rivals or obvious goals to impede or compete with him."
And that wasn't even putting words in your mouth. that was just going by what you always complain/make arguements about, that if they were rectified in the simplest and quickest sense,
ie: sasuke has too much cover, naruto doesn't have enough, done. Sasuke is only seen every several chapteres for maybe a few pages at a time, whereas naruto needs upwards of ten pages per chapter for a while.
Yet all he's doing is training, sitting on a rock on a mountain for like ten hours trying to sit still or trying not to turn into a frog. So kishi has to make up page spreads, and lots of talking and almost believable bs about chakra, or sage arts until he fills that many chaps. Whereas comparitavely with sasuke he can spout a bit more about hate, or explain his reasons to someone like hachibi, team hawk, or madara, have a bit more fancy eye shots, and fill ten pages with fight scenes.
With most fights taking at LEAST two chapters, and meanwhile throwing one or two cameo`s to naruto about how he`s progressing in his training fills the chapter even faster, as well as all the other junk happening at the same time, Raikages troops, konoha`s talks/interrogation/autopsy/killing time.
Besides, sasuke`s fights are always cool, and what naruto has done comparitvley in the same time (since the start of killing orochimaru-itachi) have been incredibly boring, or slow and time consuming.
And what else do we really need to know about naruto anyways, he's simple, i said that already, and his character is boring. He likes ramen, he's straightforward, WE know his full past, who his parents are, and what his goals are, he wants to become hokage, save sasuke, and make babies with sakura.
We also know that all jirayia really did with naruto was make him take notes, train his chakra control and make him evoke some common sense in battle, bring him "up to par" with everyone else. BUT what he DID do, was make naruto use the kyuubi alot (all the way up to 4 tails)Which kakishi tells us is bad, and is limiting his true potential, so he trains him proper.
What jirayia really taught was not that you need to have lots of jutsu's to be strong, but spirit, and strong will. And naruto definetly aces every other character in that aspect. So him eventually getting more interesting through new jutsu's or fighting styles is irrelevant to him actually being stronger, it just makes him more interesting and that much less of a boring character.
Seriously like him being the underdog is like 80% of the story, so it makes sense to me at least that its going to take the whole story for him to achieve that, and be the "strongest" and be great at everything, saved everyone, protected everyone, beat all the bad guys, etc etc bla bla.
And thats all he's really got to do to advance the story, is get stronger and win, The only complications to him in his goals are how complicated the other characters are. IE: sasuke/Madara/kakishi/pein/etc
So what exactly are we gonna focus on him for long extended periods of time? I never said naruto was unlikeable, he's just boring. he's a great main character for the fact of his spirit, but he's still boring. And that is made just that much more obvious unless kishi focuses on other characters.
Another fairly relevant point, is that while the manga has a diverse set of characters that he hasn't even begun to touch upon yet,(not deeply anyways) if you expect an arc or at least a chapter or two for each one , they all can't happen at the same time.
And while this has been the year of sasuke so far, we've still had a presence of naruto getting increasingly more frequent, as well as tying up several other characters stories/ends like shikamaru, jirayia, itachi, sai, yamato, sasori, hidan, kakuzu, deidara gaara, asuma.
Before the gap, neji and rock lee's sotires were shown and pretty much finalized, chouji's too, with hinata and kiba there isn't much to tell, as well as with ino and sakura, or ten ten and temari and the sand people.
So having a few months in the life of a 10+ year manga devoted to one of the main characters of the manga bothers me next to none. Like come on, its been what 7 months, naruto's been going for liek nine years coming nov/dec lighten the hell up with the sasuke getting Main screen time.
And the reason i grouped you as a sasuke basher is because thats primarily ALL u do, and if it isn't in saying how much weaker naruto is than sassuke, you use it as an excuse to dislike sasuke more because he's portrayed as better than naruto.
If you wanted me to believe you liked the manga, than instead of bashing every thing that DOESN"T happen the way you'd liek it to you could maybe support things that you like instead of just as a counter to me saying what about it that you dislike like. =/
EDIT: i didn't notice your part about the frogs, the government etc and how they aren't getting covered deeply with more background. what do you think your getting with the frog training =/ or how kishi is introducing ANOTHER team from a completely NEW and untouched country, that is three main countries and their ninja introduced and slightly explored. As well as all the akatsuki and rogue ninja with hawk, thats a pretty good spattering of the ninja world so far. We've seen two main ninja from the mist village, (both rogue? for some reason) and "supposedly" madara is the kage, so that only leaves one village kage, and ninja's unintroduced at least. And as far as not introducing the ninja worlds background what does the stuff about the six ways sage, rinnengan and pein mean? nothing? or how about madara's explanation of how all the villages formed, or the in depth history of konoha that he gave. The ninja war was scratched briefly several times.
I think all of these things will be explored more with the KAGE SUMMIT coming up, and with the confrontation/killing of pein, frog training progression, etc etc. Theres always more that he can tell us but its not liek we need to know EVERY detail of their world.
Also i apologize for the extremely long post, i would have replied earlier, and actually in time to his comments, if not for work.
Last edited by _zet_; 10-02-2008 at 11:14 AM.
Reason: forgot to answer one thing
"Knowing is not enough, we must apply.
Willing is not enough, we must do."
- Bruce lee