Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 25
  1. #11
    SamDaPsy is offline Senior Member Respected Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    The Warp
    Posts
    406

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by artifice View Post
    I don't recall specifically when someone attempts to summon 2 of the same beasts at once. Do you recall which chapter that happens in?

    I realize that the summons are different for a reason I was more questioning how that relates to the nature of their control and interactions within the real world. For example, the more intelligent summons with personality seem fully capable of performing Ninjutsu of their own and also seem to be prone to disobedience. So if those creatures exist within the actual world, what is it that makes a creature such as that a summon to begin with? For example, the Toads of Myouboku Mountain, Jiraiya was shown living among them and even served as their student. I assume that means they exist in the physical world but in that case what is it that separates them from humans besides their form? What makes them summons?
    This is a damn good point, actually. If I'm interpreting you right...do you mean to say "Why isn't it the other way around?". If they're sentient beings capable of almost (based on what we've seen) anything humans can do or more, why aren't they the ones summoning the ningen-nins? What, automatically makes them subservient and a tool for humans even though they can be their masters etc.

    If that's the case, I'm not entirely sure. As was previously mentioned, I think its ultimately a partnership that only the humans can create due to their chakra, perhaps. Perhaps its the human blood that allows for such a deal to be forged. After all, we don't see the summons signing the contracts themselves. But that brings up the question of why they would need such a thing to begin with? We've seen the frogs arrive at Konoha on their own without being summoned forth, so perhaps 'allowing' you to summon them is a gift of sorts. "Call on me if you need me."...at least for the frogs and Kakashi's nin-dogs (though they seem subservient).

    Manda needed sacrifices...though I don't get why he couldn't just go off and massacre villages.
    [DX] Proud compatriot of the DX Brigade [DX]


  2. #12
    Raszagal is offline Senior Member Community Builder
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    Fort Europa
    Posts
    4,067

    Default

    Because Manda is greedy. He wants to be treated like a lord, you even have to address him like one.

  3. #13
    Urameshi-sama is offline Senior Member Community Builder
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    9,170

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Heartlessfang View Post
    The fact that one needs a contract for summoning a creature makes me wonder if they creatures they summon are actually deities/gods from their own legends. Well...minus a few exceptions. Like Kakashi's summons. The contract for summoning doesn't seem like an ordinary item to begin with.
    I've been assuming they are deity-like figures as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by SamDaPsy View Post
    T If they're sentient beings capable of almost (based on what we've seen) anything humans can do or more, why aren't they the ones summoning the ningen-nins? What, automatically makes them subservient and a tool for humans even though they can be their masters etc.
    Well, you seem to be neglecting that the relationship between summons and humans isn't subservient or master/slave-like. They form contracts, implying mutual agreements. Also, we know that humans generally have a price to pay for their summons. Naruto had to play with gamabunta for a while before he decided to cooperate as a summon, and even then, he's a very cantankerous one. Each summon seems to go on a case-by-case basis.

    As was previously mentioned,I think its ultimately a partnership that only the humans can create due to their chakra, perhaps. Perhaps its the human blood that allows for such a d eal to be forged. After all, we don't see the summons signing the contracts themselves. But that brings up the question of why they would need such a thing to begin with? We've seen the frogs arrive at Konoha on their own without being summoned forth, so perhaps 'allowing' you to summon them is a gift of sorts. "Call on me if you need me."...at least for the frogs and Kakashi's nin-dogs (though they seem subservient).
    I think you're missing something large here. The contracts that we know of have been passed between groups of people family-style. The was the frog contract seems to work is that if you can sign your name on the scroll, then you can summon a set of frogs at your command. The fact that such a scroll exists, and the fact that we've seen that the frogs themselves are organized in a ninja-village-like system, we can speculate that the contract was probably forged between some pioneers in the races, such as the predecessors of this Great frog and some great hermit from way before (considering Jiraiya was the 2nd or 3rd name on the contract). Each contract is individually made, so the conditions for cooperation for different races would be different as well.

    So, that explains the variation among the summons.

    Oh, and Kakashi's summons would indeed be a special case since dog's aren't diety-like in his summon's case. Kakashi individually raised those dogs to become his summons.

    Also, people can force animals into being summons too, as we've seen with Madara and Kyuubi.

    Quote Originally Posted by Raszagal View Post
    Because Manda is greedy. He wants to be treated like a lord, you even have to address him like one.
    The only person who addressed him as such was Kabuto, the biggest asswipe among the villains we've seen so far.
    Stolen Sig Count: 26

  4. #14
    Ringmaster is offline Senior Member Regular
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    209

    Default

    meh, as far as i can tell.. The summons don't seem to have much of a choice in the summoning process.

    You use a certain amount of chakra and you get a certain level summon..

    Anyway, once they are summoned they are still the same old sentient beings they always were. They decide to help the ninja that summons them, if they want to. Manda required sacrafices.. being kind of lazy. Gambunta didn't really want to serve Naruto but naruto was determined as always. As far as i can tell Kakashi has already made a deal with his dogs.

    On another note, i'm pretty sure Kakashi summoned a shit load of dogs all at once when he was fighting Zabuza on the bridge.. you know when he died? and Haku died..

  5. #15
    elnino19 is offline Senior Member Always Around
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    bolshol booZE
    Posts
    1,150

    Default

    kakashi raised his dogs.from birth.already stated.

  6. #16
    magnaemperor is offline Junior Member Newbie
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    25

    Default

    manda didn't need the human sacrifises he was just lazy and hungry. they were just extra payment since he dosen't like being bothered by orochimaru

  7. #17
    Nevermore135 is offline Member Frequent Poster
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    68

    Default

    I think it's safe to assume that we'll learn more about summoning as Naruto goes off to train with the toads.

  8. #18
    Ryoga-san is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    709

    Default

    The summoned animals are like mythological totems or demons who can bond with a human by a contract in blood, much like how blood must be used in the ritual to summon them. My theory is that there are rulers of the animal kingdom, where every animal species has intelligent leaders, who has mastered the elements of nature (chakra). After the first Rinnegan user created the basis for ninjutsu, humans also learned the mastery of the elements. The animal oracles were probably predicting much wars inflicted by human's having this knowledge, but could also predict potential and well spirited beings, and that way wrote contracts with humans which proved worthy. With time, the animal rulers distributed across the ninja society and even the animals started combating each other. The disputes of humans became disputes of the animals, and they sought out ninjas to use to empower their own species.

    Though while some ninjas wrote contracts with the animals and borrowed their aid and powers, other ninja clans started training the lesser animals into fighting tools (Aburame's bugs and Inuzuka's dogs). It's possible that the Aburame successors has a contract that also lets them summon more intellectual bugs and the successors of Inuzuka might have a contract with the dogs, but not necessary. The animal rulers are probably very strict with whom they serve, and clans are therefore trying to use them for their own benefit. If this theory is true, then Inuzuka doesn't have a contract with the dog rulers, which Kakashi has (and possibly the White Fang because of his alias). I believe the successors of the Hatake clan had a contract with the ninja dogs, and the White Fang would most likely have had his son, Kakashi, become his successor. On the other hand, Inuzuka doesn't need a contract since they have for generations trained dogs to serve them. It's possible though that more animals are bound to clans, as it seems Uchiha had a contract with the ninja cats (though Sasuke himself can't summon them because Orochimaru had him write a contract with the snakes) and even Might Guy has been seen on a turtle.

    While some contracts are passed from teacher to student, other ninjas will find their animals later on (or the animals might find their ninja if they're looking for new servants). When it comes to the toads, they are most likely one of the most civilized of the animal kingdom, and wise enough to fear war and seek out hot-spirited friendly ninja like Jiraya, Minato and Naruto. They are most likely not living in a spiritual plane, but in the real physical world as rulers over nature. The toad mountain is most likely in the Fire country, but isolated enough to not being bothered by rogue ninjas or wars. I`m sure the other animal rulers can be found on isolated corners of the world as well, forcing them to rely on ninjas since they are now the new rulers over nature.

  9. #19
    Nevermore135 is offline Member Frequent Poster
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    68

    Default

    @Ryoga-san

    Wow. That's really thoroughly thought out. Did you just come up with that or have you been sitting on that for a while?

  10. #20
    Ryoga-san is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Sweden
    Posts
    709

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Nevermore135 View Post
    @Ryoga-san

    Wow. That's really thoroughly thought out. Did you just come up with that or have you been sitting on that for a while?
    I just came up with the theory while writing the post. But you think it's plausible?

 

 
Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
vBulletin Skin by: ForumThemes.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.0
Copyright © 2014 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 89 90 91 92 93 94 95 96 97 98 99 100 101 102 103 104 105 106 107 108 109 110 111 112 113 114 115 116 117 118 119 120 121 122 123 124 125 126 127 128 129 130 131 132 133 134 135 136 137 138 139 140 141 142 143 144 145 146 147 148 149 150 151 152 153 154 155 156 157 158 159 160 161 162