Naruto vs. Sasuke: current status

I'll start by introducing myself. I got hooked on anime two years ago, Naruto a month ago and I've been browsing these forums for a while now.

One of the most heated discussions on the net about Naruto his whether Sasuke is getting a disproportionate amount of character and skill development in Part II and whether the title character is getting neglected in comparision. I'm in the camp that agrees to the above two points, but for the sake of neutrality, I decided to make up a table comparing both characters' skillsets and techniques, as of chapter 406.
EDIT: And since I don't know how to post tables on this forum, I'll just list the comparable abiltities by number here. A star mark(*) indicates where a character has an advantage over the other.

NARUTO:
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1.Rasengan(and melee variations)

2.Rasenshuriken<Not perfected yet.>

3.<None. Hasn't mastered second element yet. May learn water jutsu.>

4.Kage Bushin no Jutsu*

5.Kyubi Transformation(1-3 tails)<Can be controlled, but can't be prevented from 'escalating' into 4-tail mode, hence avoided.>

6.Kyubi Transformation(4 tails onwards)<Can't be controlled yet.>

7.Toad Summoning*

8.<None. Possibly this is where Itachi's power gift comes into play.>

9.Average taijutsu skills.

SASUKE:
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1.Chidori(and ranged derivatives)*

2.Kirin*

3.Katon Jutsu(and variations)*

4.<None.>

5.Curse Seal(Level 1-2)<Now lost.>

6.Orichmaru/White Snake Powers<Now lost.>

7.Snake Summoning<Manda is dead, but smaller snakes available.>

8.Mangekyou Sharingan<Seeing eye, Ninjutsu, Genjutsu and Taijutsu techniques incuding Itachi's.>*

9.Excellent taijutsu skills, also has Sword of Kusanagi*

.....
That's two points in Naruto's favour and five in Sasuke's. The situation looks bad for our main character.

From the above, it seems that the notion of Naruto being unfairly underpowered does hold some truth(Although it's slightly less uneven now that Sasuke doesn't have the Curse Seal or the Orochimaru abilities). If Naruto must eventually surpass Sasuke(both to defeat him and to become capable of being able to 'change the world or destroy it' as per the prophecy) then the way I see it he'll have to master the Kyubi chakra AND complete Rasenshuriken AND learn to use a second element AND a useful space-time jutsu AND learn to counter the Mangekyou Sharingan.

Any opinions? And please DON'T FLAME ME, Sasuke lovers. I'm just trying to look at the issue from a neutral standpoint.

EDIT: By the way, despite the title(which I regret and am unable to change), I don't intend this to be a typical 'versus' thread about how either one will win against the other; with people posting stuff like '4 tail Kyubi will kick Sasuke's ass' and 'Naruto pwned by Sharingan'. I put it up to list and compare all their abilities and see exactly how much of an advantage either one has over the other and where; and how much more Naruto needs to grow.

since you are new i will be very polite and suggest reading the rules before posting

*there are no vs. threads
*i think your sig may be too big (im not sure or not so you might want to check)


on topic: in abilities it is the quality, not quantity that is important. just because sasuke has more doesnt mean that naruto has a handicap. for example naruto's emmence chakra from the kyuubi could over compansate for having less skills then sasuke. etc. etc.

in saying that, naruto usually created his own handicaps by rushing into things and lacking maturity, and while we have seen him rush into things like when he went to attack itachi, he has certainly grown in maturity so he seems to be overcoming his downfalls.

on another note, naruto doesnt neccessarily has to defeat sasuke through strength, many times we have seen naruto face his enemies and have been able to defeat them through speaking. an example of this is Haku and Zabuza, after naruto spoke to Zabuza i saw him in a different light and not just as a villian, so in the end sasuke may be defeated by naruto's words since skills are not the only strength

but overall, yes. it would do some good for naruto to increase his skill level.

i still fail to see the huge unbalance your referring to =/
so its 6 pro to naruto and 5 pros to sasuke,
-weapons don't count, as its only a special sword because he runs chidori through it.
-Also space time jutsu? when did sasuke get one of these?
-Considering how extremely uneffective EVERY fire jutsu has shown (even amaterasu), it doesn't really do anything in my eyes of "balance"
-Kirin needs massive preparation and time to set up, and can't be used just anywhere.

Yet every move naruto has is like pure destruction, and kage bunshin is just getting better and better in its usability. Also his summoning isn't gimped by having its largest summon killed. he's also going to be trained pretty soon. As well as recieve kyubbi's full chakra potential.

The big thing sasuke has over naruto, is his natural ability (sharingan, elemental affinities) and speed & taijutsu. (although MS is a ridulously effective technique against naruto since he's weak to genjutsu.)
Naruto only has basic techniques because he was never taught anything specilized until recently, Whereas sasuke was born into being a "genius"

Sasuke's style alone just makes it seem unbalanced though, he's graceful, avoids attacks and plans his assaults and tries to do things efficiently.
Compared to naruto who takes hits until he gets one big hit in, and usually gets messed up every big fight. He's not fast, or incredibly stong, and also doesn't use a special weapon so he seems just that much more inadequate when compared to sasuke.

didnt he use space time jutsu to escape in manda or something like that

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Originally Posted by mele-3-4

*there are no vs. threads

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My sincerest apologies, then. As I've mentioned in the OP now, I didn't intend it to be a typical versus thread either. Is there any way to modify the title to indicate that?

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Originally Posted by mele-3-4

*i think your sig may be too big (im not sure or not so you might want to check)

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There isn't any rule on sigs in that thread, so I think It's okay .

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Originally Posted by mele-3-4

on topic: in abilities it is the quality, not quantity that is important. just because sasuke has more doesnt mean that naruto has a handicap. for example naruto's emmence chakra from the kyuubi could over compansate for having less skills then sasuke. etc. etc.

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True, but Naruto only knows a handful of attacks(many of which he hasn't perfected yet), so he can't use the kyubi chakra to anywhere near its full potential unless he transforms into tailed mode. And Kishi seems very shy of actually having him learn anything new. Every time he learns a new technique, Sasuke pulls three more out of his ass. It undermines all his effort, especially considering that one of the themes of this series is 'hard work beats genius' and we rarely see Sasuke training in Part II, only Naruto.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mele-3-4

on another note, naruto doesnt neccessarily has to defeat sasuke through strength, many times we have seen naruto face his enemies and have been able to defeat them through speaking. an example of this is Haku and Zabuza, after naruto spoke to Zabuza i saw him in a different light and not just as a villian, so in the end sasuke may be defeated by naruto's words since skills are not the only strength

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If the Toad Sage's prophecy is to be believed, Naruto will eventually become someone who has the power to change or destroy the Ninja world. I don' t think he could do that just by giving moral speeches. And talking to Sasuke has failed twice because Naruto keeps repeating the same immature things('Come back! I'll take you back even if I have to beat you!') instead of, say, chiding him for lusting for power and telling him that he can't become a great ninja just by learning great techniques.

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Originally Posted by mele-3-4

but overall, yes. it would do some good for naruto to increase his skill level.

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Not just good, but essential. And hopefully imminent.

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My sincerest apologies, then. As I've mentioned in the OP now, I didn't intend it to be a typical versus thread either. Is there any way to modify the title to indicate that?

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cant. think only mods can. it doesnt really matter though..it isnt like u were asking who would win in a fight or anything, you actually had a point so only the title is the problem (in my opinion)

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The maximum signature size is 650 X 200 pixels, or 1 MB.

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-Ultimate Sticky Compilation: Rules, Downloads, General Information, and Etc


i dont actually know if your pixel size is that big or not, it just looks farely big so i was just letting you know in case..

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Originally Posted by _zet_

i still fail to see the huge unbalance your referring to =/
so its 6 pro to naruto and 5 pros to sasuke,

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What do you mean? Naruto has only two real pros: Kagebushin and Toad Summon, because Rasenshuriken is incomplete(and forbidden), he can't control the Kyubi, and Rasengan, while more powerful than Chidori, can only be used for close combat. Sasuke has the Sword, several Chidori ranged attacks(sending it through the ground, emitting it 360 deg. etc.), multiple Katon jutsus(including the dragon ones) and Kirin. Oh, and the Mangekyou Sharingan itself guarantees victory. What can Naruto do against Susanoo?

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Originally Posted by _zet_

-weapons don't count, as its only a special sword because he runs chidori through it.

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He can also increase it's length at will. Plus it gives him an advantage in taijutsu since Naruto can't parry swords with bare hands.

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Originally Posted by _zet_

-Also space time jutsu? when did sasuke get one of these?

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Like mele-3-4 said, he used it to teleport himself AND Manda away from Deidara's final explosion.

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Originally Posted by _zet_

-Considering how extremely uneffective EVERY fire jutsu has shown (even amaterasu), it doesn't really do anything in my eyes of "balance"

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They're only ineffective 'cause of plot: somehow the target always manages to dodge it.

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Originally Posted by _zet_

-Kirin needs massive preparation and time to set up, and can't be used just anywhere.

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Moot point if it's a prolonged battle, like with Itachi.

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Originally Posted by _zet_

Yet every move naruto has is like pure destruction,
and kage bunshin is just getting better and better in its usability.

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Kirin can level a mountain. Naruto can't do anything like that unless he's in Kyubi mode. Rasengan and Rasenshuriken only work on one person at a time. Kage bunshins are useful but get destroyed very easily, just like in Part I.

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Originally Posted by _zet_

Also his summoning isn't gimped by having its largest summon killed.

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You mean Sasuke? Well, yes, he can still summon snakes but nothing that can compete with the likes of Gamabunta.

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Originally Posted by _zet_

he's also going to be trained pretty soon. As well as recieve kyubbi's full chakra potential.

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Yeah, and hopefully this time his training will produce visible improvement. The previous training arc seemed meaningless when the resultant jutsu turned out to be incomplete and unusable. Kishi seems to be afraid of changing the 'status quo' by giving Naruto any new jutsus.

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Originally Posted by _zet_

The big thing sasuke has over naruto, is his natural ability (sharingan, elemental affinities) and speed & taijutsu. (although MS is a ridulously effective technique against naruto since he's weak to genjutsu.)
Naruto only has basic techniques because he was never taught anything specilized until recently, Whereas sasuke was born into being a "genius"

Sasuke's style alone just makes it seem unbalanced though, he's graceful, avoids attacks and plans his assaults and tries to do things efficiently.
Compared to naruto who takes hits until he gets one big hit in, and usually gets messed up every big fight. He's not fast, or incredibly stong, and also doesn't use a special weapon so he seems just that much more inadequate when compared to sasuke.

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IMO the main cause of this is because post-timeskip Naruto seems to have learnt next to nothing from Jiraiya. But that's a subject for another thread.

By the way, I hope you're not angry that I'm answering your post point-by-point. I enjoy long, detailed discussions and I thought it'd be a little harder to pick out individual answers if I put it in 1-2 paragraphs. Take your time with your reply if possible.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mele-3-4

-Ultimate Sticky Compilation: Rules, Downloads, General Information, and Etc


i dont actually know if your pixel size is that big or not, it just looks farely big so i was just letting you know in case..

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It is too big, like twice the height it should be.

Also, we all know Sasuke will win no problem. His MS will suppress the Kyuubi's chakra, and his speed and techniques will kill him in a minute.

OK, I'll change the sig. Sorry for the inconvenience. And could an admin please change the title to 'Naruto and Sasuke: a comparision.'

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Originally Posted by The Witcher

I'll start by introducing myself. I got hooked on anime two years ago, Naruto a month ago and I've been browsing this forums for a while now.

One of the most heated discussions on the net about Naruto his whether Sasuke is getting a disproportionate amount of character and skill development in Part II and whether the title character is getting neglected in comparision. I'm on the camp that agrees to the above two points, but for the sake of neutrality, I decided to make up a table comparing both characters' skillsets and techniques, as of chapter 406.
EDIT: And since I don't know how to post tables on this forum, I'll just list the comparable abiltities by number here.

NARUTO:
---------
1.Rasengan(and variations)

2.Rasenshuriken<Not perfected yet.>

3.<None. Hasn't mastered second element yet. May learn water jutsu.>

4.Kage Bushin no Jutsu

5.Kyubi Transfromation(1-3 tails)<Can be controlled, but can't be prevented from 'escalating' into 4-tail mode, hence avoided.>

6.Kyubi Transfromation(4 tails onwards)<Can't be controlled yet.>

7.Toad Summoning

8.<None. Possibly this is where Itachi's power gift comes into play.>

9.<None. May learn Hiraishin jutsu later.>

10.Average taijutsu skills.

SASUKE:
---------
1.Chidori(and derivatives)

2.Kirin

3.Katon Jutsu(and variations)

4.<None.>

5.Curse Seal(Level 1-2)<Now lost.>

6.Orichmaru/White Snake Powers<Now lost.>

7.Snake Summoning<Now that Manda is dead, capabilities unknown.>

8.Mangekyou Sharingan<Seeing eye, Ninjutsu, Genjutsu and Taijutsu techniques incuding Itachi's.>

9.Unknown short/medium range Space-time jutsu

10.Excellent taijutsu skills, also has Sword of Kusanagi

.....
From the above, it seems that the notion of Naruto being unfairly underpowered does hold some truth(Although it's slightly less uneven now that Sasuke doesn't have the Curse Seal or the Orochimaru abilities). If Naruto must eventually surpass Sasuke(both to defeat him and to become capable of being able to 'change the world or destroy it' as per the prophecy) then the way I see it he'll have to master the Kyubi chakra AND complete Rasenshuriken AND learn to use a second element AND a useful space-time jutsu AND learn to counter the Mangekyou Sharingan.

Any opinions? And please DON'T FLAME ME, Sasuke lovers. I'm just trying to look at the issue from a neutral standpoint.

EDIT: By the way, despite the title(which I regret and am unable to change), I don't intend this to be a typical 'versus' thread about how either one will win against the other; with people posting stuff like '4 tail Kyubi will kick Sasuke's ass' and 'Naruto pwned by Sharingan'. I put it up to list and compare all their abilities and see exactly how much of an advantage either one has over the other and where; and how much more Naruto needs to grow.

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^^ my new friend. this is what ive been xplainin to my friends for couple of months now.
someone said tht naruto's handicap is him creating by some rash/stupid descision /agreed.
but hopefully his maturity from jiraiya's death will enable him to see things clrearer.
and pls pls use toads already