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  1. #21
    squigeyjoe is offline Senior Member Frequent Poster
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    i still dont see any evidence than itachi can only use the ms a few times due to its chakra consumption. im not trying to be a pain in the ass it just seems that everyone jumped to that conclusion. and i think that the shapeshifter clone cant do a bloodline limit as its more of a puppet than an extension of the real person like a kb is.

  2. #22
    adonai is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    ^ It had the sharingan, what more do you need to prove that it does copy bloodlines? It even copied a giant sentient sword...and allowed the clones to make clones, why would it not copy kekkei genkai?

  3. #23
    squigeyjoe is offline Senior Member Frequent Poster
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    could have just copied the appearance of the sharingan and the big sword :/

  4. #24
    Tousen is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Plus it tried to use a sharingan doujutsu on Kakashi. If it were not possible for the clones to use these bloodline limits then I doubt it would have even tried.

    And while Itachi did use MS twice on that day, please remember that he also used several other jutsus that would have consumed chakra (ie. exploding clone & countering Kurenais genjutsu). So he probably could have used MS a 3rd time had he not done all of those.

    Quote Originally Posted by squigeyjoe View Post
    could have just copied the appearance of the sharingan and the big sword :/
    I doubt he just did that. Remember what happened when Guy tried to use the sword against him? Even the cloned sword was sentient in that it chose who it let use it.

  5. #25
    demi_god is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Quote Originally Posted by squigeyjoe View Post
    i still dont see any evidence than itachi can only use the ms a few times due to its chakra consumption. im not trying to be a pain in the ass it just seems that everyone jumped to that conclusion. and i think that the shapeshifter clone cant do a bloodline limit as its more of a puppet than an extension of the real person like a kb is.
    No evidence? Are you serious?

    How about Itachi using the Mangekyou Sharingan on Kakashi, then Sasuke, and then escaping through a building wall that was protected?

    How about Kisame talking about how dangerous using it was?

    How about Itachi saying himself he had to rest from using the Mangekyou Sharingan so many times?

    My god. Have we been watching/reading the same thing?

    The Shapeshifting technique turns a person into the user; turning the person into a copy of the user. The person that its being used on could be considered a puppet. Anyway, its an exact copy down to even the blood limit.

    Don't be stupid saying that the technique doesn't go that far. WE'VE SEEN IT. The Shapeshifting technique goes as far as the chakra used for the technique will allow. So that means, if someone wanted to.. As long as they are performing the technique, they can give ALL their techniques to that person. And I wouldn't be surprised that once the technique is undone, the "puppet" only recalls what happened.. And any techniques they were able to do while being possessed, they lose.

    So plain and simple, the Shapeshifting technique will go as far as the user wants it. Even so far as to copy blood limits. The puppet isn't able to tap into the blood limit like the original. They are only able to do what the chakra and user of the technique will allow.

  6. #26
    squigeyjoe is offline Senior Member Frequent Poster
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    ^ dont really see how itachi using the ms on kakashi and sauke and then blowing a hole through the wall has anything to do with its chakra consumption, or kisame saying it was dangerous for that matter. him resting is more relevent but i dont remember him saying he had to rest due to the amount of chakra it consumed, it might be for that reason but i dont like to jump to conclusions. also i dont particularly like being called stupid when im just throwing ideas out there, if you think their wrong then show me why.

    @tousen did he need the sharingan to do the genjutsu? to be honest i thought it was just a normal genjutsu (as he is a genjutsu specialist), i know it had that whole other worldly feel to it like the ms one did, but he previously said he couldnt use the ms and i dont rememeber the normal sharingan having any special eye genjutsus so im not sure about that one (it could also be that thats what a failed genjutsu looks like). i think your right about the sword, i forgot it attacked guy on its own i only remembered it returning to kisame, so dont really have anything to come back with unfortunately, should probably re-read that whole section :P
    Last edited by squigeyjoe; 08-08-2007 at 08:37 AM.

  7. #27
    Tousen is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by squigeyjoe View Post
    ^ dont really see how itachi using the ms on kakashi and sauke and then blowing a hole through the wall has anything to do with its chakra consumption, or kisame saying it was dangerous for that matter. him resting is more relevent but i dont remember him saying he had to rest due to the amount of chakra it consumed, it might be for that reason but i dont like to jump to conclusions. also i dont particularly like being called stupid when im just throwing ideas out there, if you think their wrong then show me why.

    @tousen did he need the sharingan to do the genjutsu? to be honest i thought it was just a normal genjutsu (as he is a genjutsu specialist), i know it had that whole other worldly feel to it like the ms one did, but he previously said he couldnt use the ms and i dont rememeber the normal sharingan having any special eye genjutsus so im not sure about that one (it could also that thats what a failed genjutsu looks like). i think your right about the sword, i forgot it attacked guy on its own i only remembered it returning to kisame, so dont really have anything to come back with unfortunately, should probably re-read that whole section :P
    I think it was mentioned in his convo with Kisame after their encounter with Jiraya that he could only use it a few times a day. I am not quite sure if he specifically mentioned it draining his chakra though. I think most people see this the same way as when Kakashi taught Sasuke chidori. Sasuke had enough chakra for 2 shots. After that it would either not work or cause him serious damage. When it comes to jutsus the rule seems to be that you can use it as much as you want as long as you have enough chakra.

    Itachi is a master of genjutsu (remember the finger thing) but I do believe that the sharingan definitely has eye jutsus. I'm basing this on the fight that Itachi had against Deidara. Deidara cursed the sharingan because he was caught by it in a doujutsu. Also, Sasuke never used doujutsu/genjutsu without the sharingan being on. I believe they even said something to the effect of you have been caught by my sharingan. And remember that Deidara trained his left eye specifically for encounters with the sharingan (to get back at Itachi I believe). If sharingan didn't have eye genjutsu/doujutsu then there would have been no point to that and Deidara would not have been able to see through Sasukes genjutsu.

    .........

    Has anyone noticed he similarities between the shape shifting jutsu of pain and the jutsu Orochimaru used to bring back the 1st and 2nd? Both need a sacrifice. Both also allow the sacrifice to use all of the abilities of the one being cloned. With Pains jutsu, it all comes down to how much chakra is used for the jutsu but Oros seems to be more complete in a way.

    If it weren't for the fact that Sarutobi seemed to recognize it, I'd almost say that Oro may have gotten it based on Pains jutsu.
    Last edited by Tousen; 08-08-2007 at 08:47 AM.

  8. #28
    squigeyjoe is offline Senior Member Frequent Poster
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    but didnt orochimaru's have the 1st and 2nds souls trapped within them? i think pain's one works more like puppets where as orochimaru's were like obedient servants. and yeah i agree orochimaru's seems a lot more developed

  9. #29
    Tousen is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by squigeyjoe View Post
    but didnt orochimaru's have the 1st and 2nds souls trapped within them? i think pain's one works more like puppets where as orochimaru's were like obedient servants. and yeah i agree orochimaru's seems a lot more developed
    Yeah, his was a reanimation jutsu. I just thought it was similar in that they both used someone elses body to make a clone of someone they chose.

  10. #30
    irecinius is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Its easy to explain how Itachi used Sharingan to cast the genjutsu on Kakashi's Clone

    THERE WERE NO HAND SEALS!!! How else he could have casted it?
    One hand was up kakashi's bushins' neck
    the other on his crotch!
    "Chile is a thin and tall country"

 

 
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