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  1. #1
    shautieh's Avatar
    shautieh is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Default Mafalda -- need an advice

    I used to read Mafalda (Argentine comic strip) when I was little and am thinking of buying it now, but I don't know what edition to buy, and thus would like some advices about it

    According to wikipedia (http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mafalda) there are 2 editions with the whole comic, and I hesitate between them :The second is more recent but there are no images or whatever so I don't know which would be the best :S


    If you think all volumes are not worth it (and I should only buy some of them) please tell me why you think so.


    PS : there is an integral edition in French too but I am interested in the spanish one

    PPS : if you know a website which sells one of these editions for cheap and internationally I'm interested too ;p

  2. #2
    NeoFireHawk is offline Senior Member Frequent Poster
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    Simply put, Ediciones de la Flor is the Argentinian publisher and Editorial Lumen is the Spanish one.
    I think that I read that when Mafalda was first published in Spain, the Franquist government censored it and forced the editors to label it as an "adult only" comic. I don't think that censorship should be a concern in the present editions of Editorial Lumen, but if I were you I'll go for the Argentinian edition.

    Whether or not Toda Mafalda is worth is a very subjective matter if you ask me. For me, it's worth it. Sure, it has its shortcomings, but they are relatively minor when compared to its merits. But as I said before, this is just my opinion, a very personal and idiosyncratic criteria. So I think that the best way to evaluate this is to read the comic yourself before buying it. (You can download it from here. And by the way, this is the Ediciones de la Flor edition.)

    And about a good website to buy it...I don't think I could help you with this. I'm almost completely oblivious when it comes to this matter. Sorry.

  3. #3
    shautieh's Avatar
    shautieh is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Thanks
    (In fact I just found the differences between the 2 editions and was going to edit my post when I saw yours => http://www.clubcultura.com/clubhumor...nol/libros.htm)

    I think I'll go with the original (Argentinian) edition, but does Argentinian differ much from "pure" Spanish/Castilian ? It is not supposed to be too different (as american and english I guess) but I'd rather be sure :P
    Anyway I am going to read some of the scans you linked so I can make up my mind (about Mafalda's overall worth, I have already an idea as (as I said previously) I already read some when I was young (in colour !! the French editions were coloured ^^) but was wondering if all the volumes were worth it or if a little "sample" would be enough... a priori I'll be going with the anthology edition)


    edit :
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rioplat...istic_features => "Differences between dialects of Spanish are numerous; about 9,000 Rioplatense words are not used or, in many cases, even understood elsewhere. These include many terms from the basic vocabulary, such as words for fruits, garments, foodstuffs, car parts, etc., as well as local slang."
    Verbs and intonations tend to change too :P

  4. #4
    NeoFireHawk is offline Senior Member Frequent Poster
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    Quote Originally Posted by shautieh View Post
    I think I'll go with the original (Argentinian) edition, but does Argentinian differ much from "pure" Spanish/Castilian ?
    You have just touched a very controversial topic:

    Quote Originally Posted by shautieh View Post
    It is not supposed to be too different (as american and english I guess)
    More or less.
    The main difference is that the English spoken in America was "used" by native English speakers that immigrated to America and "evolutioned" from there while Spanish was imposed to the Indians by the Spaniards after they invaded this continent. While American English was, as the name implies, developed in America Spanish was totally European. All the "forms" of Spanish spoken nowadays were originated in Spain. That's why there are a lot of nouns that are only used in a very specific region: since the Spanish language was imposed, some people still used words of the old native Indian languages that were obligated to forget. (But the use of those words is very informal and are like slang: you're supposed to use them between friends, never in formal writing/speaking).

    Another difference is that there are spelling differences between British and American English, like "recognize" and "recognise" but that is unthinkable in Spanish. In Spanish, all is ruled by the Royal Spanish Academy (RAE: La Real Academia de la lengua Española). It doesn't matter where you live, as long as you're speaking or writing Spanish you must follow its rules. And even if a word is used a lot in the Spanish speaking world as long as it's not recognized by the RAE is not "official" to the Spanish Language so all the writing made in Spanish has the same Standards.
    What changes is that in Spain and Latin America different pronouns are used for the second person singular/plural: vos, tu and vosotros. In Argentina and some other countries of the Spanish speaking Latin America, vos is used instead of tu and vosotros is not used unlike some parts of Spain, where vos is no longer used and vosotros is exclusively utilized.
    This issue has much to do with your question about the existence of a "pure Spanish/Castilian". A lot of people have different points of view about what "dialect" should be considered "Standard", but generally the definition that's made about what is standard is not linguistic, but political or ideological. For example, Manuel Seco leaves out the form of Spanish spoken in Andalusia, Extremadura, Murcia and the Canary Islands from the "Standard" Spanish, but he doesn't justify what the rest of dialects have in common in order to be put in the same group. It is argued that that distinction is made not for the form of Spanish spoken, but in order to politically separate those parts of Spain from the much richer North.
    It is considered that in Spain there are two big main "dialects" of Spanish: Castillian and Andalusian. The one that it is spoken in Latin America is the Andalusian one (But there exists a huge area where the dialects spoken have combined characteristics of both, and these are the ones that show more vitality in recent times).
    But there still are a lot of people that see Andalusian as an "inferior" form of Spanish (Those "points of view" can be traced as far as the XVI century.) The stronger feeling associated with the social rejection of Andalusia has to do with the way some Spaniards identify how Andalusians talk with the misery, discrimination and "cultural backwardness" that this area suffered in the past.

    Andalusian is spoken in the "Americas" because the cities of Seville and Cadiz (both localized in Andalusia) had a monopoly with the colonies in the times of the Empire. A lot of Spaniards that immigrated to America where Andalusian (most of them looking for better opportunities in the colonized areas of the "new" continent). In those times, Ustedes was widely used in Andalusia (and is still used in some regions like in the Canary Islands, an obligated stop in the travel from Andalusia to the "Americas").
    "Vos" is used in the Americas because in Andalusia was very used in early colonial times. But when the northern Spaniards tried to extend the use of "tu", they were only successful in areas that had more commercial and political contact with Spain, like the Caribbean and the main administrative sites of the Empire (Peru and Mexico), while the regions that were more "isolated" retained "vos", like Argentina. (Vos is utilized in Argentina as an informal pronoun, and often denotes familiarity within equals or by "superiors" in order to address "inferiors".)

    So, in short, both the Argentinian and the Spanish version should have the same contains since every Spanish speaker understand (and can use) vos, tu and vosotros. (More or less like the American and British example that you gave before). What could be different in Mafalda are some banal things, like the interviews and articles included in each edition.

  5. #5
    shautieh's Avatar
    shautieh is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Ok, thanks for the thorough explanation

    It is also said here : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castill...Imp.C3.A9ratif (French version), that almost all irregular verbs are different from the Spanish Castillian, is it true ? (it doesn't seem to be too annoying though )

    I have to find the Argentinian book for a good price now (on amazon.com, it's 80$ new, on amazon.fr 160$ occasion (and up to 240$ occasion >.> I fucking hate speculators)... on fnac.es it's 60$ but there is only the spanish book ^^)

  6. #6
    NeoFireHawk is offline Senior Member Frequent Poster
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    Quote Originally Posted by shautieh View Post
    It is also said here : http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castill...Imp.C3.A9ratif (French version), that almost all irregular verbs are different from the Spanish Castillian, is it true ? (it doesn't seem to be too annoying though )
    It's true, but regular verbs are also pronounced differently.
    For example, the regular verb "amar" (To love) would be conjugated like this by a typical Spaniard (Spanish Castillian speaker):
    Yo amo
    Tú amas (informal)
    Usted ama (formal)
    él ama
    Ella ama
    Nosotros amamos
    Vosotros amáis (informal)
    Ustedes aman (formal)
    Ellos aman
    Ellas aman

    Now, a typical Argentinian would conjugate it like this:
    Yo amo
    Vos amás (informal)
    Usted ama (formal)
    él ama
    Ella ama
    Nosotros amamos
    Ustedes aman
    Ellos aman
    Ellas aman

    The difference between Tu (amas) and vos (amás) is small in writing, but is more notorious when you hear it (vos is stronger). With Vosotros is a different case, since it will always have a different conjugation than ustedes.

    But as that article said, is a different case with most irregular verbs, like hacer (to do):
    Castillian conjugation:
    Yo hago
    Tú haces (informal)
    Usted hace (formal)
    él hace
    Ella hace
    Nosotros hacemos
    Vosotros hacéis (informal)
    Ustedes hacen (formal)
    Ellos hacen
    Ellas hacen

    Argentinian conjugation:
    Yo hago
    Vos hacés (informal)
    Usted hace (formal)
    él hace
    Ella hace
    Nosotros hacemos
    Ustedes hacen
    Ellos hacen
    Ellas hacen

    If you look carefully, there is some similarity between the conjugation of vos and vosotros so conjugate them shouldn't be too difficult.

    Quote Originally Posted by shautieh View Post
    I have to find the Argentinian book for a good price now (on amazon.com, it's 80$ new, on amazon.fr 160$ occasion (and up to 240$ occasion >.> I fucking hate speculators)... on fnac.es it's 60$ but there is only the spanish book ^^)
    Well, if the Argentinian version is too expensive you should go for the Spanish edition instead. I tried to look for differences and the only new thing I could find (besides information about a japanese version of Mafalda) is in this page. It says that the Spanish and Argentinian editions are indeed different. But since information about the Spanish edition is scarce, the author of the page can't exactly say what the differences are. He/She "assumes" that the only difference is that the Spanish edition also has contributions from Spanish artists (and the contributions from Argentinians artists could have been removed, too). So if the prices don't fall, and if you don't care about the "extra" content (like articles or additional contributions) buy the Spanish book instead. (Really, those prices look too "excessive" to me. I never thought that it could be such a difference between the two versions.)

  7. #7
    shautieh's Avatar
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    Thanks again for the infos (it helps me revise in the meantime as I have not read Spanish for years ^^")

    About the prices, the Spanish version on amazon.com is 70$ (not much less than the 80$ of the Argentinian version :P). The French integral version is 40$, which seems to be a more correct price to me (though there are less content, 475 pages). Of course I am sure that it's way cheaper in Argentina and "western" websites are milking the cow ;_; (especially on amazon.fr, to the point it's disgusting).

    At least Spain is not far so I will find a website that can deliver the book for a better price.
    BTW, how much did you buy yours (if you bought it of course) ?

  8. #8
    devil-inside is offline Member Newbie
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    In my opinion, Mafalda is really good, but it is also REALLY old and its jokes are funny here because of the culture, political problems, etc. So i wouldnt recomend this book unless you are really good in spanish, dont care about spending $100, and you liked the jokes you saw so far.

    here is a really good example of quinos work



    it says while it watches in a dictionary "democracy: government in which the town exerts the sovereignty"


    my inglish suks, so what

  9. #9
    NeoFireHawk is offline Senior Member Frequent Poster
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    Quote Originally Posted by shautieh View Post
    BTW, how much did you buy yours (if you bought it of course) ?
    Well, I never bought it. I read all the 10 volumes from my school's library and I downloaded the anthology version so I could read the unpublished material that was included there (Mafalda Inédita.)
    And about the prices, I did a quick search and I found an Argentinian site that is selling the book at 59 dollars (It's a lot more expensive than I thought it would be). So I believe that maybe you can find a better deal in a Spanish site (since it looks cheaper than the Argentinian version everywhere.)

    Quote Originally Posted by devil-inside
    In my opinion, Mafalda is really good, but it is also REALLY old and its jokes are funny here because of the culture, political problems, etc. So i wouldnt recomend this book unless you are really good in spanish, dont care about spending $100, and you liked the jokes you saw so far.
    I don't think so. The fact that it's old doesn't mean that the jokes are outdated. As long as there is corruption, racism, and social inequity Mafalda would be as funny as it was the first day it was published. Also, I don't think that you need to know Spanish in order to enjoy Mafalda (the fact that it is being published even in Japanese proves that this comic can easily break the language barrier.) Sure, there are some jokes that rely on untranslatable word plays but I imagine that they're still enjoyable since the situation in which the characters are in and the topic being treated is what really makes a scene funny.
    Now, I do agree with you in that Mafalda can look "culture shocking" to people who has lived entirely in First world countries since this comic treats topics that can be very alien to them, like a highly pessimistic view of the world or the way that it approaches themes like racial discrimination or extreme poverty (maybe that's why Mafalda was never published widely in a English-speaking country...)

  10. #10
    shautieh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeoFireHawk View Post
    And about the prices, I did a quick search and I found an Argentinian site that is selling the book at 59 dollars (It's a lot more expensive than I thought it would be). So I believe that maybe you can find a better deal in a Spanish site (since it looks cheaper than the Argentinian version everywhere.)
    I found a "cheap" Argentinian website yesterday and am going to buy 5 or 6 books to lessen the shipping fee to France (which is constant). If it works I'll update this thread with the name and etc. as it could be useful to others

    Quote Originally Posted by NeoFireHawk View Post
    (maybe that's why Mafalda was never published widely in a English-speaking country...)
    They thought "Duh, an intelligent comic ? Fuck that !" ^^
    I'd like to point out that France seems to be the (not Spanish-speaking) nation with the most volumes of Mafalda translated (and coloured), and it's hardly a 2nd or 3rd nation country


    PS @devil inside : my Spanish isn't really good (or more exactly, I have not practiced it for a long time), but I intend to get better at it (which is half the reason I want Mafalda in Spanish)

 

 
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