Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14

Thread: Bokurano

  1. #1
    MadameSole is offline Senior Member Regular
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    168

    Default Bokurano

    Just felt like there should be a discussion thread for this marvelous anime/manga series by the maker of Narutaru...

    I'm reading through the manga, currently on Komoda's pilot story.


    Really, it reminds me of a lot of animes, Gantz with people being teleported into a strange place and forced to fight strange creatures...Evangelion, with deep philosophical questions on the worth of a human life and young children often with deep psychological problems forced to pilot a giant robot...
    I really enjoy it so far...


    Though I have to say, a few things:
    1.) I was really pissed at Chizuru killing Kako. I get it Chizuru, you got screwed over, whatever, what did that have to do with Kako?
    For all of his cowardice and vileness, I felt true sympathy for Kako, he was the most realistic character in the series. Anyone would feel that kind of desperation, that kind of anger, that kind of cowardice.
    And for this lame "MY LIFE IS MESSED UP SO I'M DISCONNECTED" chick to just shank him in the neck, it pissed me off a hell of a lot. I can't feel any sympathy for Chizuru at all.
    (Though I grew to like Kirie's character a lot...When the Army made that declaration on who the official pilots had been, Komo, Anko, and Karita, why didn't they heed Kirie's wish and reveal he had been a pilot so his cousin would know what happened to him?! Dangit!)
    2.) Why did Komo die? I assumed that Zearth uses your life energy to pilot, which is why you die after the battle...But Komo didn't die after the few moves she made, and the pilot was dispatched outside of using Zearth...yet she...still died? *confused* How was her life energy used in Zearth? Or is it just "YOU DIE INSTANTLY FOR NO REASON". I thought it was about the energy used to make Zearth move and fight and such.


    Really though, Bokurano can be a very beautiful and profound manga at times, I'm really enjoying it...any fans out there?

  2. #2
    jamie1990 is offline Senior Member Always Around
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    1,180

    Default

    I quite like it. The long discussions on nihilistic and other outlooks on life get more forced as it goes on. Kirie's talk with the officer before his battle for example was really heavy going. Still, many of the pilots' stories are touching.
    Quote Originally Posted by MadameSole
    1.) I was really pissed at Chizuru killing Kako. I get it Chizuru, you got screwed over, whatever, what did that have to do with Kako?
    For all of his cowardice and vileness, I felt true sympathy for Kako, he was the most realistic character in the series. Anyone would feel that kind of desperation, that kind of anger, that kind of cowardice.
    And for this lame "MY LIFE IS MESSED UP SO I'M DISCONNECTED" chick to just shank him in the neck, it pissed me off a hell of a lot. I can't feel any sympathy for Chizuru at all.
    Kako was, infact, the "MY LIFE IS MESSED UP" kid. Yes the other children felt what Kako felt but the vast majority weren't so weak as to let it get to them. Chizuru on the other hand would have had good reason to be like that, but she acted commendably and did what needed to be done. When your universe is at stake you can't afford to put up with one selfish brat's shit; Kako was a disgrace.

    My favourite moment in the whole thing infact was when Chizuru killed Kako. It's that kind of brick-shitting brutality that made Narutaru exceptional. I suppose the part about this series that I dislike is that Jun Ushiro is the one who's void of the contract, though I guess I should have seen that coming.

  3. #3
    MadameSole is offline Senior Member Regular
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    168

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jamie1990 View Post
    I quite like it. The long discussions on nihilistic and other outlooks on life get more forced as it goes on. Kirie's talk with the officer before his battle for example was really heavy going. Still, many of the pilots' stories are touching.


    Kako was, infact, the "MY LIFE IS MESSED UP" kid. Yes the other children felt what Kako felt but the vast majority weren't so weak as to let it get to them. Chizuru on the other hand would have had good reason to be like that, but she acted commendably and did what needed to be done. When your universe is at stake you can't afford to put up with one selfish brat's shit; Kako was a disgrace.

    My favourite moment in the whole thing infact was when Chizuru killed Kako. It's that kind of brick-shitting brutality that made Narutaru exceptional. I suppose the part about this series that I dislike is that Jun Ushiro is the one who's void of the contract, though I guess I should have seen that coming.
    The vast majority weren't weak? The vast majority aren't HUMAN. They're all unrealistic characters as "children". Any normal kid that age would freak out and go crazy.
    It's not a matter of weakness, those kids aren't normal kids, the ones that rise to the occassion. It is the weaknesses and transgressions of man that makes him so beautifully human. You can sympathize with Kako.
    I just really hated her, she's a murderer, and part of the manga is a discussion on taking human lives and such. Any normal person, normal HUMAN would react like Kako. They're abnormal characters...and Chizu was the "MY LIFE IS FUCKED UP" thing, yet another stupid school girl character fawning after her teacher. Kako had no real problems in his life UNTIL this. He was bullied mildly, he liked Chizu, he was just some kid. You don't hear much about some massive trauma he went through. He wasn't that guy...


    As someone who'd rather admire the beautiful lackings that make us human, rather than the totally unrealistic and frankly alien children characters who handle it detached or with resigned heroism, I found Kako's death disturbing and deplorable. Especially by that bitch..."I'VE BEEN THROUGH A LOT IN LIFE SO NOW I'M HARDENED ENOUGH TO TAKE AN INNOCENT BOY'S LIFE". Bullshit. Life is no excuse. I mean, shit they gave most of the other pilots time to get through their problems, Kako might've done something, they might've found somehow to urge him on.
    I mean, they gave Kirie plenty of time to go through his philosophical bullshit, but when Kako's having trouble they just shank him.



    My favorite character? Dung Beetle...that fixed grin of his...
    And when he met his bizarro alternate dimension version and a got all pissed off at him and he's like "Annoyed?! My expression doesn't change, dammit!"
    Bizarro Dung Beetle was kind of cute though, with his lil ears, I almost wanted one for myself. He seemed kind of nice and understand of his pilot's decisions, and it was so cute to see him tucked into the pilot's collar.

    And this:


    Seriously, why'd he come ANYWAY? Just to diss her? "Lol, you suck. Later."
    Last edited by MadameSole; 07-24-2007 at 08:21 PM.

  4. #4
    jamie1990 is offline Senior Member Always Around
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    1,180

    Default

    Yeah Dungbeetle is very cool, I believe there are plushies of him available. I prefer Moji ,Daichi, Mako and Chizu though.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadameSole
    The vast majority weren't weak? The vast majority aren't HUMAN. They're all unrealistic characters as "children". Any normal kid that age would freak out and go crazy.
    It's not a matter of weakness, those kids aren't normal kids, the ones that rise to the occassion. It is the weaknesses and transgressions of man that makes him so beautifully human. You can sympathize with Kako.
    They're children fighting in a giant, fricking robot. It's very plausible that the majority don't acknowledge the reality of their situation in the same way adults might if they were in a normal life-threatening circumstance. I mean, it's a completely surreal situation; you can't reasonably apply what you think you know about human nature to their actions and write off any one of them which acts with a hint of heroism or bravery as unrealistic.
    Quote Originally Posted by MadameSole
    I just really hated her, she's a murderer, and part of the manga is a discussion on taking human lives and such. Any normal person, normal HUMAN would react like Kako. They're abnormal characters...and Chizu was the "MY LIFE IS FUCKED UP" thing, yet another stupid school girl character fawning after her teacher. Kako had no real problems in his life UNTIL this. He was bullied mildly, he liked Chizu, he was just some kid. You don't hear much about some massive trauma he went through. He wasn't that guy...

    As someone who'd rather admire the beautiful lackings that make us human, rather than the totally unrealistic and frankly alien children characters who handle it detached or with resigned heroism, I found Kako's death disturbing and deplorable. Especially by that bitch..."I'VE BEEN THROUGH A LOT IN LIFE SO NOW I'M HARDENED ENOUGH TO TAKE AN INNOCENT BOY'S LIFE". Bullshit. Life is no excuse. I mean, shit they gave most of the other pilots time to get through their problems, Kako might've done something, they might've found somehow to urge him on.
    I mean, they gave Kirie plenty of time to go through his philosophical bullshit, but when Kako's having trouble they just shank him.
    Chizuru is a heroine who saved the universe; Kako is an attempted rapist. I cannot understand how you can claim that she is the " 'MY LIFE LIFE IS FUCKED UP' " character. She never said that or alluded to that once. She went through a truly traumatic experience, almost any behaviour from her would have been understandable, however she never seeked sympathy from others (unlike Kako), she never felt sorry for herself (unlike Kako), she never lashed out at others for her situation (unlike Kako) and she never used her plight as an excuse for her actions (unlike Kako). She really doesn't deserve to be called a bitch for murdering one of the most despicable, guilty (yes incase you've forgotten he DID try to rape her the previous chapter), inhuman characters in the series who was minutes away from dying himself anyway and saving the universe in the process.
    Kirie's instance was different from Kako's in that he talked through most of his problems before the fight had begun, and in that once he had teleported to the tip of Zearth's arm there wasn't much anyone could do to stop him.

  5. #5
    MadameSole is offline Senior Member Regular
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    168

    Default

    As someone who'd rather admire the beautiful lackings that make us human, rather than the totally unrealistic and frankly alien children characters who handle it detached or with resigned heroism, I found Kako's death disturbing and deplorable. Especially by that bitch..."I'VE BEEN THROUGH A LOT IN LIFE SO NOW I'M HARDENED ENOUGH TO TAKE AN INNOCENT BOY'S LIFE". Bullshit. Life is no excuse. I mean, shit they gave most of the other pilots time to get through their problems, Kako might've done something, they might've found somehow to urge him on.


    To me it's completely understandable that this young desperate fellow attempts rape when he realizes he's going to die...Can you really judge Kako like this? He's just a young kid who was driven to madness by immense and grave misery. His attempted rape was totally understandable. As I said, he's a VERY human character. The others, not so much.

  6. #6
    jamie1990 is offline Senior Member Always Around
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    1,180

    Default

    Understandable? Yes. I can fully comprehend his twisted thought processes. Excusable? Of course not. What kind of wretched human being would I be if I thought that raping someone just because you were going to die is acceptable?

    Kako was not a human character. Kako lost his humanity as soon as he tried to rape Chizuru. At that point he had given up all his moral values and Ego and completely given into his most appalling, base instincts –to pass on his genetic information before he died. From that point he was as an animal. I am more than entitled to judge Kako like this; his actions were wicked and unacceptable by any standards. He was far from the “innocent”, misunderstood, well-meaning individual you portray him as when denouncing Chizuru.

    As someone who'd rather admire the commendable aspects of human nature, rather than the shameful and frankly rotten characters who handle it without honor or sincerity, I found Kako's death both well deserved and awe-inspiring.

  7. #7
    MadameSole is offline Senior Member Regular
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    168

    Default

    Then I think you simply have a skewed view of humanity. On a whole, the majority of human beings would react like Chizuru. They believe in their own survival, and are at their base selfish and easily driven by their emotions.

    I don't find any of the other characters human or realistic. Can you really imagine, imagine if they got a bunch of randomly chosen kids from this reality and asked them to give up their lives like this?
    Half of them would probably be like, "Fuck you!" and run away.
    I think you have a very naive sense of human nature and survivalism if you think the average human being or the majority of humanity would react in honorable and commendable ways. Kako is closer to a normal human being than Kirie. Far closer. I think 99% of the world is Kako while 1% is Kirie. Which side is more human? It's obvious.



    Also, did anyone have any answers for this? :/
    2.) Why did Komo die? I assumed that Zearth uses your life energy to pilot, which is why you die after the battle...But Komo didn't die after the few moves she made, and the pilot was dispatched outside of using Zearth...yet she...still died? *confused* How was her life energy used in Zearth? Or is it just "YOU DIE INSTANTLY FOR NO REASON". I thought it was about the energy used to make Zearth move and fight and such.

  8. #8
    mystic_guard_sinoel is offline Senior Member Community Builder
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    The 14th Moon
    Posts
    5,234

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MadameSole View Post
    Then I think you simply have a skewed view of humanity. On a whole, the majority of human beings would react like Chizuru. They believe in their own survival, and are at their base selfish and easily driven by their emotions.
    Chizu wasn't selfish and driven by her emotions. She realized that Kako was panicking and would have been unable to fight and win for their earth. She was a caring person, she told her sister not to stay with her teacher because she loved her, and she did not want to see her earth erased due to the weakness of Kako

    Quote Originally Posted by MadameSole View Post
    I don't find any of the other characters human or realistic. Can you really imagine, imagine if they got a bunch of randomly chosen kids from this reality and asked them to give up their lives like this?
    Half of them would probably be like, "Fuck you!" and run away.
    I think you have a very naive sense of human nature and survivalism if you think the average human being or the majority of humanity would react in honorable and commendable ways. Kako is closer to a normal human being than Kirie. Far closer. I think 99% of the world is Kako while 1% is Kirie. Which side is more human? It's obvious.
    I don't think that the world is 99% Kako. He reacted the way he did because he wasn't used to being pressured and forced to do anything he didn't want to especially because he didn't particularly care about anybody. He felt no motivation to fight because he didn't care for anything enough to die for it. I don't think that there are that many people who don't care for anything that much.

    Quote Originally Posted by MadameSole View Post
    Also, did anyone have any answers for this? :/
    Because that's the way things work.


  9. #9
    jamie1990 is offline Senior Member Always Around
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Posts
    1,180

    Default

    Hoho you've managed to skew the children's plight fantastically in your favour. I agree, most children would probably say "fuck you! and run away in that case, however that isn't what we're dealing with here.

    In actuality, it's more like this: "Your lives are forfeit. Whether you decide to save your loved ones or let them perish along with you is up to you. Use your remaining time on earth as you see fit."

    Now in that situation, are you saying you'd place your own survival above your family's even though you knew deep down you were going to die and even go so far as to rape someone despite the fact that you would be remembered not as a hero, but as the lowest scum? Come off it. I admit there are some pathetic people out there who would do that, but I'd hope that you aren't one of them.

    To use something resembling an analogy, when people are told they have a terminal disease, they will usually seek to spend the rest of their time on earth as best they can. They will seek to ensure their family's welfare, if they don't have a family hey will often donate all their possessions to charity. There are people who act selfishly even though they know they have no chance to survive (make your time! /jk), but despite what you think, they are a minority.

    I'm not saying that they would all act as Chizuru (I think you meant to say Chizuru...) did. She is truly exceptional. But to claim that most of them are such unhappy people that they care for no one on this earth except themselves, now that is a mistaken view of humanity.

    I'm guessing Komo died because once Zearth has been activated, even if it does not move, it still requires energy for subsystems, etc. or some similar explanation.

  10. #10
    MadameSole is offline Senior Member Regular
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    168

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jamie1990 View Post

    In actuality, it's more like this: "Your lives are forfeit. Whether you decide to save your loved ones or let them perish along with you is up to you. Use your remaining time on earth as you see fit."
    "Fuck that, I'm going to get wasted and go get some poontang."
    ^90% of male teens


    When people find out their lives are forfeit, they're generally driven to hedonism. It's the reason why there would be so much looting, rape, and violence if someone announced the world was about to end. They'd all try to fill in their human passions with no care of the consequences, much like Kako forcing himself on Chizuru. It's all very human.


    And who the fuck was talking about ME? Don't talk about ME. I'm simply saying that you're naive if you think humanity isn't easily driven to self-survivalism and hedonism and violence. EASILY.


    And I definitely see a sudden hilarious naivety in this statement, it's very revealing:
    despite the fact that you would be remembered not as a hero, but as the lowest scum?
    Listen, when you're dead, you're dead. It doesn't matter how you died, or how people remember you, because your existence has CEASED TO BE.
    Read Johnny Got His Gun.
    There is no glory in death, no heroism, no matter how you will be remembered, only DEATH. Why would I care about how I'm remembered? I'M FUCKING DEAD. I've ceased to BE!
    When you die, existence dies. It's quite irrelevant how people remember you.

    It's easy for you to spout such kitsch, but when it comes down to it, down to the desperate drive of survivalism, down to the finality of death...every man becomes the animal he truly is. The ones that don't are exceptions, inhuman.
    Remember when Kirie said he felt something was wrong or missing in him? It's true, going by the majority of humanity. Kako is far more human than Kirie. Kirie is a strange and alien character compared to the rest of humanity.
    Last edited by MadameSole; 07-25-2007 at 05:54 PM.

 

 
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
vBulletin Skin by: ForumThemes.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.0
Copyright © 2014 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.
SEO by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79