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  1. #21
    be0wulf is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Well, there's still some original stuff floating around. The Melancholy of Haruhi Suzumiya comes to mind, as does Death Note and Ergo Proxy. Although I must say the recent anime that's come out is nothing special.


    http://www.chunlikickedme.com

  2. #22
    jamie1990 is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by fifthtouch View Post
    will you kindly tell me the title of that anime? I would gladly want to pissed myself out
    He could be talking about Nodame Cantaible, but I have heard that Nodame Cantaible is infact a very good shoujo series that even seasoned, bitter, old sods can enjoy. I have only watched one episode myself but it seems that way to me as well. Furthermore there are quite a few things about it that are actually very uncharacteristic of a shoujo series ( male main character, no yaoi fanservice, acually managing to be funny, etc.) so I'm not even sure if it would be correct to call it that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon
    Seinen manga are all either action of some sort involving a badass guy, or sex.
    Hahaha, oh wow.
    You quite clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Which is a shame because you were actually managing to sound quite credible for a while there. Here's the thing, seinen is not a genre. A manga is seinen if it is read primarily by older teenagers and up, that is all. You'll find seinen mangas in every genre under the sun(with the probable exceptions of yaoi and shounen-ai), be that romance, slice-of-life, comedy or drama.

  3. #23
    xxDoLLarBiLLxx is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon View Post
    Yeah, I'll just analyze this with the ones I know. The fact that you have EXTREMELY different characters already makes them totally different manga. How Naruto would react in one situation is totally different from how Luffy, Ichigo, Allen or Train would react, and that leads to a different plot. Yes, the basic plot elements are the same, but you won't read any of those manga and think "I've seen this before", because you just won't. As for DBZ, it INSPIRED those manga. It's of a different generation. Additionally, from what I remember of watching it, it's completely different in execution, too.

    As for your shoujo thing, um, yeah - what I said for the shounen series, except for the fact that a lot of the characters are actually similar and that's why shoujo manga DO seem so similar. When you have unique shoujo manga like Fruits Basket, Ouran Koukou Host Club, Lovely Complex, Beauty Pop, or Crimson Hero... well, you have a good manga.

    Finally, seinen and josei manga can be just as formulaic as the others. Seinen manga are all either action of some sort involving a badass guy, or sex. Josei is usually sex and adult relationships. The only reason they're seen as good and unique is because some of the best manga EVER come from these categories, and they're very different (Berserk and Nana, for instance).

    Oh, and the anti-hero bit: The reason we don't see more of them in manga is because they're the equivalent of a shounen hero in Western society today. All the new popular shows, and even some of the older ones, feature anti-heroes (like Tony Soprano or House). Eventually, they'll grow just as boring and "cliche". Also, there are lines that an anti-hero can't cross, either. An anti-hero can't be a good character; Light or Guts has to STAY an anti-hero, because turning good is just not possible. At least shounen manga have that potential.

    So you like typical anti-heroes, and I like typical shounen heroes. Not much of a huge difference there.
    I obviously hit a nerve there, but your arguments so far are based on ur own personal feeliings toward the Genre. I speak facts.

    Shounen: They are all the same aren't they? They are as formulaic as they come. Their main characters are all basically the same, they all react the same. they might have some small differences here and there but besides that, its the same. Luffy, Ichigo,Naruto, Allen, Train act the same then i dont know how to prove to you otherwise. Even Stevie WOnder could see it.

    Shoujo: So they aren't similar?? They always end up the same way, the same direction and predictable. I dont even think you can call shoujo unique because it is the female version of shounen and usually follows the same premise.


    Seinen, Josei: How is seinen Formulaic?? A mangaka is not required to follow a formula when writing in Seinen or Josei genre. he has much more freedom with his work, He is not confined into a box.

    Anti-Hero: how will a works with anti-hero main characters get cliché? its not like shounen where u Expect certain things to happen. you can never predict what will happen when you have anti-hero as main characters. You can almost predict what will happen in a shounen story(where's the potential in that?)

    Its not that i like Typical anti-heroes main characters, its just that i hate shounen-shoujo genre because they are so damn cliched and typical.

    The thing u have to realise is that the shounen-shoujo are made to appeal to unexperience teens, thus they have to follow some guidelines(formula) so they can keep appealing to that demographic, getting out of that wouldn't make then shounen/shoujo anymore. Its for that same reason why this genre is so cliched.

  4. #24
    echoblaze is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    @xxDoLLarBiLLxx

    you're missing the main point. what i've said from the very beginning - and i believe DE is trying to say - is that even if shounen story seems familiar (main character is a hotblooded young man, fighting against waves and waves of enemies, getting stronger), there are DIFFERENT WAYS OF TELLING IT.

    people have been telling stories for millenia, there can't be any truly *original* content. what there *can* be are various presentations of it.

    my example from before was Heroes. even though it's the same normal people get superpower genre, that doesn't stop it from being a great show in its own rights.

    and fyi, there *are* shounen that don't follow the formula (ie death note, fma).

  5. #25
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
    Digital_Eon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by jamie1990 View Post
    Hahaha, oh wow.
    You quite clearly have no idea what you're talking about. Which is a shame because you were actually managing to sound quite credible for a while there. Here's the thing, seinen is not a genre. A manga is seinen if it is read primarily by older teenagers and up, that is all. You'll find seinen mangas in every genre under the sun(with the probable exceptions of yaoi and shounen-ai), be that romance, slice-of-life, comedy or drama.
    No, dude, seinen IS a genre - as are josei, shoujo, and shounen. They're made for a certain age group, but they're still genres. I know plenty of older teens and adults who read shounen manga; does that make those manga seinen? For that matter, I read shounen manga; does that make me a little boy? Ummm, no. And also, I was pointing out that seinen can be as generic as any other genre - there are plenty of school-life shounen or action/adventure shoujo series.

    Quote Originally Posted by xxDoLLarBiLLxx
    I obviously hit a nerve there, but your arguments so far are based on ur own personal feeliings toward the Genre. I speak facts.
    Um, no, you don't, and your feelings are also based that way.

    Shounen: They are all the same aren't they? They are as formulaic as they come. Their main characters are all basically the same, they all react the same. they might have some small differences here and there but besides that, its the same. Luffy, Ichigo,Naruto, Allen, Train act the same then i dont know how to prove to you otherwise. Even Stevie WOnder could see it.
    Hi, where's the "truth"? For one, do YOU see similarities between Ichigo 100% and Naruto? Uhhh...

    Also, they don't act the same. At all. You really do need to try and prove it to me, because I see very different characters who don't react in the same way at all. Let me show you a few examples:

    Heroes: Most of the ones I know have tough childhoods. Train joined a gang, Naruto decided to be friends with everyone, Ichigo turned badass, and Allen just did nothing except follow along with everyone else. What similarities do I see? That they all go rescue their friends? Wow, what a similarity. Like no one I know would do the same thing, because it's a normal human trait that would make someone unrealistic.

    Yeah, please explain.

    Shoujo: So they aren't similar?? They always end up the same way, the same direction and predictable. I dont even think you can call shoujo unique because it is the female version of shounen and usually follows the same premise.
    ...You DEFINITELY don't know what you're talking about. By the way, have you read any shoujo series? Please list them.

    Seinen, Josei: How is seinen Formulaic?? A mangaka is not required to follow a formula when writing in Seinen or Josei genre. he has much more freedom with his work, He is not confined into a box.
    Same goes for the other genres - Death Note was a shounen series, not seinen, and everyone says that's very unique. Also, the general ideas of seinen and josei manga that I've read tend to be similar. I'm not saying that they're more generic than shounen and shoujo, just that when I have a hard time finding a seinen manga that doesn't involve blood, guns, and a young adult man, or a josei manga that isn't realistic and involve relationships with various people...

    Anti-Hero: how will a works with anti-hero main characters get cliché? its not like shounen where u Expect certain things to happen. you can never predict what will happen when you have anti-hero as main characters. You can almost predict what will happen in a shounen story(where's the potential in that?)
    Easy... all anti-heroes are not very nice. You know exactly what will happen because the anti-hero has to be sarcastic/nasty/uncaring, and that's exactly how they'll react. Also, the anti-hero can't change into something else. Even Guts hasn't become any less likely to kill humans since meeting his friends.

    Its not that i like Typical anti-heroes main characters, its just that i hate shounen-shoujo genre because they are so damn cliched and typical.
    Because you don't read them.

    The thing u have to realise is that the shounen-shoujo are made to appeal to unexperience teens, thus they have to follow some guidelines(formula) so they can keep appealing to that demographic, getting out of that wouldn't make then shounen/shoujo anymore. Its for that same reason why this genre is so cliched.
    Really... well, that's funny, I must be "inexperienced", then, because I enjoy them. The fact is that each genre (INCLUDING seinen and josei) has a typical story pattern to follow, because that's the way things are done, that's the archetype. What makes the stories within different from the others is the plot, the characters, the setting... all that. Saying that all shounen manga are like is showing that you haven't read them, or you haven't read them with an open mind. I've read parts of Naruto, and I definitely am not thinking of D.Gray-Man or One Piece when I'm reading it. It's totally different.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  6. #26
    jamie1990 is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon View Post
    No, dude, seinen IS a genre - as are josei, shoujo, and shounen. They're made for a certain age group, but they're still genres. I know plenty of older teens and adults who read shounen manga; does that make those manga seinen? For that matter, I read shounen manga; does that make me a little boy? Ummm, no. And also, I was pointing out that seinen can be as generic as any other genre - there are plenty of school-life shounen or action/adventure shoujo series.
    Marvellous! It's so much more satisfying to contradict someone once they have dug a hole for themselves.
    I'll say it again just for you digi. Seinen, shounen, shoujo and josei are NOT genres, in the context we are using them they describe who most of the readers are for a given series, not the content. For example saying that something is shounen doesn't mean that you are saying it necessarily has adventure, it could be a comedy series or a romance series. The same is even more true for seinen. Shoujo might be an exception to this, I'm not sure, it isn't my specialty and I'm not really interested.
    As for your other two questions I refer you to my previous post:
    A manga is seinen if it is read primarily by older teenagers and up, that is all.
    Finally, if you reread my post you'll see that I never disputed that seinen series have the capacity to be formulaic as any other; what ever the hell you're trying to argue against dollarbill doesn't interest me. I was seeking to rip this particularly ignorant and closeminded (even for you!) statement here to pieces:
    Quote Originally Posted by you
    Seinen manga are all either action of some sort involving a badass guy, or sex.
    which I have done. Do you want me to elaborate more?

  7. #27
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
    Digital_Eon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    Yeah, that wasn't very accurate, now, was it. ^_^ Since I am also arguing that seinen is just as formulaic and cliche as shounen and shoujo, which aren't, really. Still, the majority of seinen manga THAT I HAVE READ are the first kind (except Claymore).

    Shoujo manga do have adventures too. Essentially, though, a manga genre can be seinen, or shoujo, or josei, or shounen, or whatever; it just means that this is the audience that is meant to read it. It's still a genre, in the basic sense of the word, because you can categorize manga according to their audience. Just because something is a shoujo manga, for example, doesn't mean it can't be adventure too. Manga don't usually fit into just one genre, after all.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  8. #28
    xxDoLLarBiLLxx is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digital_Eon View Post
    Um, no, you don't, and your feelings are also based that way.
    Are they based on my personal feelings when i speak about facts???



    Hi, where's the "truth"? For one, do YOU see similarities between Ichigo 100% and Naruto? Uhhh...
    First off Ichigo 100% is a shounen-romance manga and Naruto is a Shounen-comedy-supernatural-adventure manga. now:
    Shounen-Romance(Ichigo 100%): this is the equivalent to shoujo-romance for guys, its probably the worst type of shounen one can read. Aren't all these characters similar: Yamato(Suzuka), Open Sesame's main character, Pastel's main character, Parallel's main character, Kimagure Orange Road's main chacter, To Love Ru's main character.... And so on.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigitaEon
    Also, they don't act the same. At all. You really do need to try and prove it to me, because I see very different characters who don't react in the same way at all. Let me show you a few examples:

    Heroes: Most of the ones I know have tough childhoods. Train joined a gang, Naruto decided to be friends with everyone, Ichigo turned badass, and Allen just did nothing except follow along with everyone else. What similarities do I see? That they all go rescue their friends? Wow, what a similarity. Like no one I know would do the same thing, because it's a normal human trait that would make someone unrealistic.
    that's basically the same,for all shounen main characters: there's a backstory to them. their mentality is always "protect the weak", "fight for the weak", "defend my nakamas", "protect the world", "fight for good cause", and they'll usually achieve those goals at the xpense of their life. not only that its usually the same premise:
    -hero main character with monkey-like antics or doesn't really use his head.
    -girl main character who usually beats up the main character or makes him do what she wants.
    -NOw, the hero's partner in crime could either be his best friend who's strong but weaker than main, or He could be a character who starts up as Ennemy-rival of the Main character but ends up being friends with him
    -Villain who represents everything the Hero hates or despises.
    -Story arcs that tend to get repetive because they kinda all have the same premise
    -Oh and lets not forget the Training part, there's always a training to get stronger.
    -Oh dont forget the near-deaths moment.



    ...You DEFINITELY don't know what you're talking about. By the way, have you read any shoujo series? Please list them.
    I do not read shoujo nor shounen anymore as those series bore me.
    Shoujo Formula:
    -main character usually a girl(of course)
    -There's always a triangle, sometimes with 2 guy and a girl(main character) or 2 girls and a guy(one girl is the main and the other one is usually another girl aiming at the guy she likes)
    -Stories always look like its going to go for the worse with everything going wrong for the main character and at the last minute things get better. This cycle repeats itself over and over again throughout the manga--->This is what i call "fake suspense".
    -Sometimes the guy is a rich and girl is poor, thus creating the conflict where parents oppose their relationship...
    -all in all, things are really bubblegum in shoujo series.




    Same goes for the other genres - Death Note was a shounen series, not seinen, and everyone says that's very unique. Also, the general ideas of seinen and josei manga that I've read tend to be similar. I'm not saying that they're more generic than shounen and shoujo, just that when I have a hard time finding a seinen manga that doesn't involve blood, guns, and a young adult man, or a josei manga that isn't realistic and involve relationships with various people...
    Like i said, shounen mangas with anti-heros tend to break the Formula-cycle. And Death Note definitely fits that bill. And you did mention Fma didn't u? i remember Edward was willing to do anything to restore his brother's limbs. Fma and Death note fits the exception because Their respective mangaka was willing to explore thing outside the shounen formula. I dont know if Its the scare of being controversial or their manga not sellin', mosg shounen mangaka opt out for the safest choice: the shounen Formula! which is a guarateed success.



    Easy... all anti-heroes are not very nice. You know exactly what will happen because the anti-hero has to be sarcastic/nasty/uncaring, and that's exactly how they'll react. Also, the anti-hero can't change into something else. Even Guts hasn't become any less likely to kill humans since meeting his friends.
    In case you didn't know, Anti-hero is for unconventional main character, or against the norm.

    Because you don't read them.

    Really... well, that's funny, I must be "inexperienced", then, because I enjoy them. The fact is that each genre (INCLUDING seinen and josei) has a typical story pattern to follow, because that's the way things are done, that's the archetype. What makes the stories within different from the others is the plot, the characters, the setting... all that. Saying that all shounen manga are like is showing that you haven't read them, or you haven't read them with an open mind. I've read parts of Naruto, and I definitely am not thinking of D.Gray-Man or One Piece when I'm reading it. It's totally different.
    Look, there's a lot of shounen that i've never red but all in all i can tell U what i can expect to find in those shounen mangas by just going what the Shounen formula stands for.
    -uhmm, Main character is kinda dumb, right??yes
    -His dumbness is usually used as comic reliefs, correct? yes
    -Some type of superpower or special ability, right? yes
    -he has a rival as strong as him, right? yes
    -female main character usually stomp main character because of his stupidity, right? yes
    -main character involved in a lot of near death experiences, right? yes
    -main character usually surprise people with his growth, right? yes
    -main character gets emotional or near tears when people are dying or getting beat, right?? HELL YES
    -Villains from each arc usually have same views, right? yes

    reading shounen and shoujo, is like watching the "Pinky and the Brain":
    -Pinky: what are we doing tonight Brain?
    -Brain: Same thing we do every night, Pinky, try to takeover the world!!!!

    The pinky and the brain, the pinky and the brain, the pinky and the brain, brain, brain, brain, brain!!!

  9. #29
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
    Digital_Eon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxDoLLarBiLLxx View Post
    Are they based on my personal feelings when i speak about facts???
    Except they're not facts.

    First off Ichigo 100% is a shounen-romance manga and Naruto is a Shounen-comedy-supernatural-adventure manga. now:
    Shounen-Romance(Ichigo 100%): this is the equivalent to shoujo-romance for guys, its probably the worst type of shounen one can read. Aren't all these characters similar: Yamato(Suzuka), Open Sesame's main character, Pastel's main character, Parallel's main character, Kimagure Orange Road's main chacter, To Love Ru's main character.... And so on.
    Well, guess what: they're still shounen. If you want to say all shounen romances are the same, I might agree with you, because they do tend to be - but you cannot say, therefore, that all shounen manga are the same.

    that's basically the same,for all shounen main characters: there's a backstory to them. their mentality is always "protect the weak", "fight for the weak", "defend my nakamas", "protect the world", "fight for good cause", and they'll usually achieve those goals at the xpense of their life. not only that its usually the same premise:
    -hero main character with monkey-like antics or doesn't really use his head.
    -girl main character who usually beats up the main character or makes him do what she wants.
    -NOw, the hero's partner in crime could either be his best friend who's strong but weaker than main, or He could be a character who starts up as Ennemy-rival of the Main character but ends up being friends with him
    -Villain who represents everything the Hero hates or despises.
    -Story arcs that tend to get repetive because they kinda all have the same premise
    -Oh and lets not forget the Training part, there's always a training to get stronger.
    -Oh dont forget the near-deaths moment.
    *Yeah, and who wouldn't fight for those reasons - to protect the weak? That's what defines a HERO. To say that it's a characteristic of shounen manga is to say that romance is a characteristic of shoujo manga - yes, it is, but that's failing to recognize the same traits in other media.
    *Ichigo and Allen are not stupid characters with stupid behaviour.
    *Rukia, Orihime and Lenalee (wow, again - Bleach and D.Gray-Man) do not beat up the main character to get what they want, and Nami is hardly a typical heroine in any other way.
    *The villains in those manga are quite different. In Black Cat, it's Train's old friend. In Bleach, it's a guy who wants power. In Naruto... well, they have lots of bad guys in Naruto. In D.Gray-Man - ah, well, maybe I just love this manga, but that really doesn't fit. The most recent chapters not only emphasize the fact that the villains are HUMAN, but feature a little girl who gets angry because her surrogate big brother was injured. She specificially says that feeling is just like the hero's.
    Also, that's kind of the point of being a villain. Find me one manga where the protagonist and antagonist get along or are not complete opposites in desires.
    *Story arcs, repetitive? I definitely need examples for that.
    *If there was no training people would complain about unrealistic power-ups.
    *Oh, don't forget the ACTUAL deaths.

    I do not read shoujo nor shounen anymore as those series bore me.
    Shoujo Formula:
    -main character usually a girl(of course)
    -There's always a triangle, sometimes with 2 guy and a girl(main character) or 2 girls and a guy(one girl is the main and the other one is usually another girl aiming at the guy she likes)
    -Stories always look like its going to go for the worse with everything going wrong for the main character and at the last minute things get better. This cycle repeats itself over and over again throughout the manga--->This is what i call "fake suspense".
    -Sometimes the guy is a rich and girl is poor, thus creating the conflict where parents oppose their relationship...
    -all in all, things are really bubblegum in shoujo series.
    Good, then you don't know what you're talking about.

    *No shit. That's why it's called SHOUJO manga. (However, take a look at Saenagi Ryou's manga for a different story - all the main characters are male.)
    *Love triangles happen everywhere, and not usually for the whole story. The ones in Love Com, for example, are pretty obviously not going to happen. Also, love triangles are featured in other manga - shounen, seinen, and josei (like Inuyasha, Berserk, and Nana... yay for Nana!).
    *Things don't usually get better right away. I've read plenty of manga where romances stay bad for volumes and volumes (again, Love Com, or Crimson Hero). Besides, most manga need conflict, right?
    *Those are the crappy shoujo series. Yes, they exist.
    *Yes, total bubblegum - hence why child abuse, suicide, terminal illnesses, death and denial, plastic surgery, and the like are covered in Fullmoon wo Sagashite, and similar events take place in Fruits Basket.

    You've also failed to look at the adventure shoujo series, such as the ones by Yuu Watase - Fushigi Yuugi and Ayashi no Ceres are pretty dark at times.


    Like i said, shounen mangas with anti-heros tend to break the Formula-cycle. And Death Note definitely fits that bill. And you did mention Fma didn't u? i remember Edward was willing to do anything to restore his brother's limbs. Fma and Death note fits the exception because Their respective mangaka was willing to explore thing outside the shounen formula. I dont know if Its the scare of being controversial or their manga not sellin', mosg shounen mangaka opt out for the safest choice: the shounen Formula! which is a guarateed success.
    Yeah, for a MANGA. Anti-heroes are formulaic in WESTERN culture, which means that the more you put in, the more boring it gets. I didn't mention FMA, but I'd like to question why, if it's so unique, it has been compared to... OTHER shounen series! It's not a matter of being safe or anything, it's just that those stories are entertaining and can be done in a unique way that people enjoy.

    Also, many of these stories (Naruto/Bleach/One Piece) are long-running, and therefore not all that recent. If they were created years ago, who's to say that they weren't unique then?

    In case you didn't know, Anti-hero is for unconventional main character, or against the norm.
    No, an anti-hero is a protagonist who acts like a villain.

    Look, there's a lot of shounen that i've never red but all in all i can tell U what i can expect to find in those shounen mangas by just going what the Shounen formula stands for.
    -uhmm, Main character is kinda dumb, right??yes
    -His dumbness is usually used as comic reliefs, correct? yes
    -Some type of superpower or special ability, right? yes
    -he has a rival as strong as him, right? yes
    -female main character usually stomp main character because of his stupidity, right? yes
    -main character involved in a lot of near death experiences, right? yes
    -main character usually surprise people with his growth, right? yes
    -main character gets emotional or near tears when people are dying or getting beat, right?? HELL YES
    -Villains from each arc usually have same views, right? yes
    And here we go again.

    *No. The main character is not always dumb. Sometimes, they are. Sometimes, they're average. So what? How many manga besides Death Note feature a genius as the main character?
    *Again, no. Remember, that's assuming that they're stupid in the first place.
    *Hence why these are action/adventure series. *eyeroll* (Although for the record, Erementar Gerad, Gintama, Katekyo Hitman Reborn, Muhyo to Rouji, and School Rumble - among others - feature average people with no special power.)
    *Rival as in villain? Or rival as in they're on the same side, but dislike each other? Check again - those rivals tend to be all over the place in terms of power.
    *No, definitely not - although what female hasn't screamed at a man for being stupid? It's a gender thing.
    *If they weren't involved in near-death experiences or actually died, what kind of a boring manga would this be? (Wait, you like seinen, right?)
    *Yes, the main character's growth is usually shocking... because adults don't think that kids can grow at all. Again, this happens in seinen series too.
    *Oh no, getting emotional is bad! NO SHIT, THEY'RE HUMAN. HUMANS GET EMOTIONAL WHEN FRIENDS DIE.
    *Villains don't usually have the same views - take Bleach. Byakuya wanted tradition, Aizen wants to take over the world and create a new one. They aren't even ALLIES, let alone holding the same views.

    I'm actually a little surprised that you'd describe shounen manga as such, since that sounds like seinen manga, too. I like most of the seinen manga I've read, you know. I do not intend to insult it. However, you've basically picked out every little thing that's the same in shounen (and seinen) manga without realizing that this is WRITING. It's not a manga characteristic for people to be upset when their companions die, or to nearly die when they're fighting enemies. That's typical of ALL stories - including your favourite anti-hero ones.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  10. #30
    fifthtouch is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by xxDoLLarBiLLxx View Post

    reading shounen and shoujo, is like watching the "Pinky and the Brain":
    -Pinky: what are we doing tonight Brain?
    -Brain: Same thing we do every night, Pinky, try to takeover the world!!!!

    The pinky and the brain, the pinky and the brain, the pinky and the brain, brain, brain, brain, brain!!!
    Best ever point I've read in these heated argument.
    The Lagendary Pinky and The Brain

 

 
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