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  1. #521
    Digital_Eon's Avatar
    Digital_Eon is offline Super Moderator Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by evangeline View Post
    we definitely need a sub section for Claymore discussion. One end we want a section carefully analyzing the facts, and theory and the other we should have a section discussing and aweing at Claymore merchandise -_-
    You're getting it, okay? Just be patient. That's being discussed. Anyway, we normally wouldn't take that kind of request, so it wouldn't help anyway.
    ~Digital_Eon~




  2. #522
    Tagger is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Wow I didn't think there would be this much of a good response to claymore O.o?
    I watched the first two epidsodes and was only moderately intrigued, guess I'm gonna have to give it a second glance through

  3. #523
    Phantom Miria is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    The Organization- Group of Scientists? They’re easily older than Isley who is estimated to be roughly 2500years old. Here’s a theory I want to share with you all. My theory is that the Organization wanted to create beings that far exceeded normal humans, hence the first super human project was launched. Human experimentations in the long run produced yoma. In one word the Organization was completely responsible for creating them in the first place. They were the phase one of their long line of further studies and research that will continue for millenias to come. For more practical results and data collection they decided to release them into the wild/human worlds. Why? To collect more data on them in natural environments fit for human beings since they were created to replace the current dominant species as superior race. Yoma were able to retain their human bodies but often resulted in transforming into Yoma to attack and eat humans alive. Its also possible to conclude that these first line of productions were produced from human experiments with prisoners, criminals and the likes which explains the hostile and savage nature of the early yomas. After much studies, they discovered a way to make their super human specimens more stable and human by merging an actual human being into a half yoma half human. After much prototypes they created the first mass production of Male Claymores, ie. Isley and co. Why males only? Perhaps they thought that males were to be the most dominant specimens to carry out this experiments.

    So then why the hunt for Yomas? Simply I think they put up this act to collect further data on how these new specimens faired against their early experiments. Personally I find it strange that the Organization wants to make profit per Yoma killed. So maybe there is a reason why they’re harvesting money for their “good” deeds. Only reason I can think of is they use their money on further studies, further research and experiments as well as ingredients for their experiments. Because of the things shown in the manga, Organization committee members don’t seem to age, so perhaps they’re like a claymore in that they don’t require food as much to survive. Or if they are indeed like normal human beings they can just simply order their Claymores to hunt for food and do other various tasks.

    Then theres the argument. How is it possible that new Yoma’s keep appearing? Maybe its contagious like how a new born Vampire or a Childe is spawned. Or maybe that’s also the Organization’s secret doing to keep them in business.

    Eitherway long story short, Isley rebelled and became an Awakened Being. Maybe this was all planned all along by the Organization in search of their perfect human specimen. To take counter measures though for the possible threats Isley posed as a rebel, they produced female Claymores who were proven after much studies to be much stable than their male counterparts.

    History repeated and they lost Riful into becoming a awakened being just like Isley and many others would have become a awakened being.

    Ask yourselves this. Whether or not the Organization is a trustful group that is really merely just fighting for the freedom and peace of human beings in total OR a mysterious group with questionable motives? Up to now they have been putting up an act of the justice fighting force there to protect humans yet why is it that they are so secretive even amongst their warriors? Even amongst the highest ranking numbers of Claymore ladder they keep many things in secrecy. Galatea who ranked number 3 wasn’t even aware of the soul link twins = controlled abyssal being until she saw it with her own eyes.

    While the Organization committee members lack combat capabilities. They seem to regard Abyssal Ones as mere test subjects/ experiments in a twisted view. They carry out the Devil’s Research in their quest to find the ultimate. Despite knowing the dangers of Claymore production they continue to produce more possibly not to purge all those awakened but more likely to create a perfect human that excels in every aspect.

    My theory is whatever they’re doing, it may have something to do with super human creation. A claymore who is much more capable in physical attributes compared to human beings, excelled in many ways, and able to keep their humanity under wraps. That is an ideal goal for the organization to produce. And I feel Teresa pretty much closely came to that ideal dream they had minus the few occasions she had to depend on a bit of her yoma powers which was ok.

    I have loads more to discuss here, some regarding the possible reason behind Clarice the failed experiment and Miata a possible experiment that’s still under research. I’ll explain these once I get home from work. Atm work is a bitch and I can only type so much. Originally I had so much to tell…. T.T

  4. #524
    Tetnubis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tagger View Post
    Wow I didn't think there would be this much of a good response to claymore O.o?
    I watched the first two epidsodes and was only moderately intrigued, guess I'm gonna have to give it a second glance through
    That's where your problem lies. Read the Manga. The Anime, although good, has nothing on the Manga. Which is like most good titles out there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Miria
    So then why the hunt for Yomas? Simply I think they put up this act to collect further data on how these new specimens faired against their early experiments.
    And how are they collecting data exactly? The Claymores rip though them day by day, buy the tons, and leave. Now its not hard to say that the handlers don't retrieve the bodies when they collect their payment. But, it seems illogical.

    Then theres the argument. How is it possible that new Yoma’s keep appearing? Maybe its contagious like how a new born Vampire or a Childe is spawned. Or maybe that’s also the Organization’s secret doing to keep them in business.
    I have wondered this myself. And think that the organisation is behind it. This way they can determine the 'levels' of each Claymore.

    Ask yourselves this. Whether or not the Organization is a trustful group that is really merely just fighting for the freedom and peace of human beings in total OR a mysterious group with questionable motives?
    This question is a given really, you would be mad, dense, or not reading properly to have not thought it yourself.
    Their motifs are still shrouded in mystery, but on the whole, whilst there is corruption in the group, I believe they are just trying to get rid of the Abyssal Ones. Probably for some sort of world domination scheme.

    While the Organization committee members lack combat capabilities.
    Apparently.
    Their sort of 'deformed' state, as well as their apparent inability to age possibly suggests otherwise. Who knows what secrets and ability's they have. How do they survive every time a number one goes mad and awakens, like Luciela, and Isley ? We have been shown them simply walking away from the battle field, just like Prisilla done with Claire, but still.
    EDIT: just had to check my facts, in Luciela's case, it is said that they lost half the organisation.

    My theory is whatever they’re doing, it may have something to do with super human creation. A claymore who is much more capable in physical attributes compared to human beings, excelled in many ways, and able to keep their humanity under wraps. That is an ideal goal for the organization to produce. And I feel Teresa pretty much closely came to that ideal dream they had minus the few occasions she had to depend on a bit of her yoma powers which was ok.
    If this was the goal, then why eliminate her? A test to number 2 maybe? The Organisation should spend more time working on the mental stability of their higher ranked Claymores before doing anything.


  5. #525
    Phantom Miria is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Ok, now that I'm back home hear my theory on Clarice and Miata.

    Clarice has retained her original hair colour and is considered extremely weak in comparison to other Claymores. The others have branded her as a Failed Creation and while that may be true if you look at it from the superior Claymore's point of view but how about it if you look at it from the Organization's perspective given that the theory of them wanting to make super humans was correct. Clarice seems to be somewhat stronger (She can use a claymore which would be difficult to wield for normal human girls her age/body) and much more agile than a human being, she's retained more humanity than her fellow Claymores and doesn't or rather can't? seem to use yoma powers meaning she's more likely going to stay as a slightly enhanced human being. To a certain degree I suppose you can say she fulfilled the criteria of the super human project but because she is pitifully weak compared to others maybe she's deemed as a failure.

    They say failures like these were created even during the male claymore's era. Maybe she's just another experiment that started ages ago that provided the same conclusion. I feel that theres an invisible balance the organization have when creating half yoma half human creatures. You try to create a being that satisfy the following and you got yourself a good result.

    1. Doesn't turn berserk/awaken
    2. Retains humanity more than yoma
    3. Is stronger and more capable than normal humans or average claymores
    4. Is able to stay sane

    This is why I think they would have valued Teresa as a creature that satisfied most of the above. Anyhow, maybe Clarice wasn't born a failure without a reason or by sheer coincidence afterall. Perhaps she's a product of many attempts at balancing out the scale of yoma and humanity before creation. Think of claymores like making a coffee. Can't add too much sugar but you cant add to much coffee, you aim for that just right combination and spill more sugar than necessary and you get Clarice (not that she's sweet or anything). Conclusion, I think Clarice is a failed experiment that was just one of many attempts to make the perfect being.

    Ah and before I touch Miata, I just want to ask why people believe the pills she take is for her to stay sane? To me it looks more or less the same pills Clare took when she was doing her recon mission undercover.

    Miata(I think) is another case of the experiment although unlike girls who were turned into a yoma I would suggest the idea of having born a hafling from birth. Maybe that is the explanation why Miata is slightly insane. Miata satisfy the conditions well regarding the project super human research. She is abnormally stronger than humans even in a state of no release, she's human? (I question this by itself cos she seems more like a confused child or more like a cornered animal) but the problem with her is that she's unstable, insane and could possibly fully awaken if her insanity gets to her while she is not influenced by the drug that stops her from releasing any yoma powers. Her parents could have been either one of the following combo.

    Male Claymore + Female Claymore/Human
    Male Yoma + Female Claymore/Human
    and etc. Alot of different combination.

    The reason why she's taking the pills could be that they're so afraid what might happen if she relies on yoma powers. It might produce catastrophic results similar to Priscilla. Take note of her insanity and you already have a mad warrior bent on destroying everything in her path.

    Mmm so dead tired today. I need sleep. I might write more about it tommorow with good sleep and a clearer head.

  6. #526
    Elcura is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Miria View Post
    This is why I think they would have valued Teresa as a creature that satisfied most of the above. Anyhow, maybe Clarice wasn't born a failure without a reason or by sheer coincidence afterall. Perhaps she's a product of many attempts at balancing out the scale of yoma and humanity before creation. Think of claymores like making a coffee. Can't add too much sugar but you cant add to much coffee, you aim for that just right combination and spill more sugar than necessary and you get Clarice (not that she's sweet or anything). Conclusion, I think Clarice is a failed experiment that was just one of many attempts to make the perfect being.
    I don't think that's it. Maybe there was a bit of experimentation there, but at this point the organisation has enough power to be steady in it's exploits. Everything above 30 was just filler, so their power doesn't matter. In the organisations eyes, they have the perfect being already. Her name is Alicia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Miria View Post
    Ah and before I touch Miata, I just want to ask why people believe the pills she take is for her to stay sane? To me it looks more or less the same pills Clare took when she was doing her recon mission undercover.
    Huh? Who said that? The pills were said to be suppressants.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Miria View Post
    Miata(I think) is another case of the experiment although unlike girls who were turned into a yoma I would suggest the idea of having born a hafling from birth. Maybe that is the explanation why Miata is slightly insane. Miata satisfy the conditions well regarding the project super human research. She is abnormally stronger than humans even in a state of no release, she's human? (I question this by itself cos she seems more like a confused child or more like a cornered animal) but the problem with her is that she's unstable, insane and could possibly fully awaken if her insanity gets to her while she is not influenced by the drug that stops her from releasing any yoma powers. Her parents could have been either one of the following combo.

    Male Claymore + Female Claymore/Human
    Male Yoma + Female Claymore/Human
    and etc. Alot of different combination.
    I think you're reading into things too much. I would say she's simply a child who never got over her mothers death.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Miria View Post
    The reason why she's taking the pills could be that they're so afraid what might happen if she relies on yoma powers. It might produce catastrophic results similar to Priscilla. Take note of her insanity and you already have a mad warrior bent on destroying everything in her path.

    Mmm so dead tired today. I need sleep. I might write more about it tommorow with good sleep and a clearer head.
    She's not on the pill (lol) now to keep her from awakening. That much doesn't matter to the organisation because they have the power to deal with her. When she was alone in her "room" I don't recall her being on suppressants, she wouldn't eat them without Clarice anyway because they taste bad.

  7. #527
    Phantom Miria is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Tetnubis and Elcura, what are your thoughts regarding the secret Miria knows about that she wouldn't tell Clare/Deneve/Helen because its such a dangerous knowledge. I originally thought its something like the Organization itself is responsible for making more yoma (the commoners who werent a Claymore) as they get slayed more and more. But then it made me ask myself. Is it that simple? Or is there a particular reason for them to summon more and more yoma? (Provided they're the ones responsible for it, at the moment as it stands its blatantly obvious they're not the good guys)

    And is it just me or do they actually want their warriors to awaken? If they're the ones supplying more normal yomas to roam around thats giving more chances for their claymores to awaken right? They also seem to have plenty more than 47 Claymores wherever their headquarters are based at. (Pieta campaign suggested they had plenty to replace the fallen numbers).

    Somehow it does look like they want to achieve world domination. Question I have against that then is, If they wanted that would they have bothered with yoma extermination in the first place? They could have just produced mass armies of Claymores to take over the world instead of making Alicia. I think its not as simple as that.

    Levels of a claymore. Just what determines the numbered seatings? For some reason I don't think killed yoma numbers has anything to do with getting a ranking. If so that means Priscilla killed more yoma than Irene ever has and I think Irene's been around for awhile to have killed about as much as any other single digits. So does everyone else agree it has to do with combat potentials?

    And Tet, I'm not sure if the Organization lost half of their goth loving committee when Luciela went berserk. I personally think they meant they lost half of their Claymores + trainees? Some reason the goths don't seem to die easily. Mmm and its been bothering me but that man with the sunglasses. He seemed pretty confident when he appeared before Clare and Jean to instruct them to participate in the Northern Campaigns. Whats with that? I know he had knowledge about Raki but does he not feel endangered when meeting a renegade Claymore who probably has greater combat capabilities than the goths? The goth community moves carefully and some reason makes me think they always have a backup plan (minus Luciela berserking, they screwed up big time here). Or am I just thinking too much and the goths dont really hold any power against claymores if they decide to sink their swords into the millenia old men.

  8. #528
    Elcura is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Miria View Post
    Tetnubis and Elcura, what are your thoughts regarding the secret Miria knows about that she wouldn't tell Clare/Deneve/Helen because its such a dangerous knowledge. I originally thought its something like the Organization itself is responsible for making more yoma (the commoners who werent a Claymore) as they get slayed more and more. But then it made me ask myself. Is it that simple? Or is there a particular reason for them to summon more and more yoma? (Provided they're the ones responsible for it, at the moment as it stands its blatantly obvious they're not the good guys)
    I'm not sure what she could've known at the time that was so dangerous for them. But whatever it was they should know by now or will know soon. It could've been about Alicia and Beth, or could've been early knowledge of the Pieta campaign.

    As for what you say, the only reason I see them doing that is to make more money, but as it stands in this world, money doesn't mean very much. So I doubt it's anything like that. I think they're genuinely trying to get rid of Yoma (or at least awakened beings, since those are their fault). However, no matter how good your intentions, there are very wrong ways to go about your business.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Miria View Post
    And is it just me or do they actually want their warriors to awaken? If they're the ones supplying more normal yomas to roam around thats giving more chances for their claymores to awaken right? They also seem to have plenty more than 47 Claymores wherever their headquarters are based at. (Pieta campaign suggested they had plenty to replace the fallen numbers).
    Pretty much covered above. Additionally, they wouldn't want people to awaken because of how troublesome and hard it is to kill them (Abyssal Ones). They put so much effort and resources into perfecting soul link that it makes me think they're willing to try their hardest to cover up their mistakes.

    And it's common knowlegde that there are more than 47 Claymores, it just happens that the 47 are the ones that got certified to be out in the field, everyone else is a replacement incase someone dies or a trainee.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Miria View Post
    Somehow it does look like they want to achieve world domination. Question I have against that then is, If they wanted that would they have bothered with yoma extermination in the first place? They could have just produced mass armies of Claymores to take over the world instead of making Alicia. I think its not as simple as that.
    That depends on where Yoma come from. Yoma are generally a very dangerous thing, what point is there in taking over the world when there's nothing but Yoma around? And the mass army of Claymores is pretty inconceivable. Firstly no one really knows the amount of resources used to make a Claymore, secondly a huge army of Claymore might eventually turn into a huge army of Awakened Beings. Then it's back to square one, except so much harder to deal with.

    Not to mention dominating a world like Claymore seems like a pretty big waste of time, but that's mostly due to rampant Yoma attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Miria View Post
    Levels of a claymore. Just what determines the numbered seatings? For some reason I don't think killed yoma numbers has anything to do with getting a ranking. If so that means Priscilla killed more yoma than Irene ever has and I think Irene's been around for awhile to have killed about as much as any other single digits. So does everyone else agree it has to do with combat potentials?
    Nothing to do kills, pretty sure it's how the organisation views your potential compared to the rest of the group. Actually, I take that back a bit, kill count directly relates to potential, and it's how you gauge it properly without fighting another Claymore.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Miria View Post
    And Tet, I'm not sure if the Organization lost half of their goth loving committee when Luciela went berserk. I personally think they meant they lost half of their Claymores + trainees? Some reason the goths don't seem to die easily.
    He said half the organisation. I'm willing to bet that meant some amount of handlers died as well as Claymores and trainees. They don't seem to die easily because they're hardly ever on the front lines of a battle, but when they are I would bet they die just as easily.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Miria View Post
    He seemed pretty confident when he appeared before Clare and Jean to instruct them to participate in the Northern Campaigns. Whats with that? I know he had knowledge about Raki but does he not feel endangered when meeting a renegade Claymore who probably has greater combat capabilities than the goths?
    Did you forget the part where he had the ex-number 1/2 now number 5 behind him? I'd be pretty cocky too if I had someone that strong backing me up.

    Also, I'm wondering where everyone get their numbers from concerning Isley's age? I haven't read the posts in detail (yet) but I'm wondering how some of you deduced that he was 2000 years old?

    I mean, that seems a bit excessive doesn't it? 2000? Really? Did they start making Yoma in the goddamn stone age?

  9. #529
    Phantom Miria is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Mmm about Isley's age. You're right I take that back, I got the age from reading the forumers here and there. Generally his age seemed to range from 1000~3000 but theres really no way of knowing how old her is. Hmm.. can anyone really come up with how old he is? He's logically in 100s than 1000s I think...

  10. #530
    Tetnubis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phantom Miria
    Tetnubis and Elcura, what are your thoughts regarding the secret Miria knows about that she wouldn't tell Clare/Deneve/Helen because its such a dangerous knowledge.
    I don't have many thoughts about this, but I have a feeling that it has something to do with the 'control' of Claymores.
    Ever wondered why there is never a revolt within the ranks that does not include awakening? [Not including Miria, Claire, and the rest of the 'ghosts' from 7 years prior to where we currently are]

    Either that, or its the awakening of Alica and Beth. Awakening is a Taboo of sorts is it not? And they way Miria brought it up, and the reaction given by the others would suggest that this is it, the big secret.


    And is it just me or do they actually want their warriors to awaken? If they're the ones supplying more normal yomas to roam around thats giving more chances for their claymores to awaken right? They also seem to have plenty more than 47 Claymores wherever their headquarters are based at.
    Question I have against that then is, If they wanted that would they have bothered with yoma extermination in the first place? They could have just produced mass armies of Claymores to take over the world instead of making Alicia. I think its not as simple as that.
    Way I see it, They are trying to fix their, or their mentors/ predecessors mistakes. Which would be the 2 Abyssal ones we are aware of.
    The rules, and game at the beginning was to destroy their first mistake, Yomas, but in doing so granted the creation of Awakened Beings [seeing as the original male ones couldn't handle the temptation]. But then, through 'experimentation' Abyssal Ones were created, further nudging them to failure as well as doom. Female Claymores were then deemed as the only 'trustworthy' experiment.
    Along the lines, corruption came about, I have no idea how, or why, but there is a piece of coal in the organisation.

    And Tet, I'm not sure if the Organization lost half of their goth loving committee when Luciela went berserk. I personally think they meant they lost half of their Claymores + trainees?
    Well as Elcura stated, the random Organisation member stated so according to the translation. Still, it is nothing they couldn't come back from. I just don't get why the most powerful Awakened beings walk away aimlessly. Satisfaction from the amount they have killed already? A quenched thirst of 'guts'? Bored?

    As for Isleys age, I have been wondering where you all got this age estimation from too. 2000 years seems a bit much.


 

 
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