stupid things they'd do
I agree. They are retarded.
At the end of the first mission, they see Nishi pull out a controller, push a button right in front of them, and turn invisible. But stealth mode wasn't something the rest of them figured out until after he was revived and apparently told them.
Not everyone brought a controller with them each time, even after they learned about it the previous mission.
When Kurono and Izumi had their girlfriends with them, that time vampires ambushed them, Izumi turned invisible, and used his sword, even at maximum length, to kill the vampires, while still remaining invisible.
You wonder why more of them don't wonder around in stealth mode with swords, or snipe things from a safe distance whenever possible.
Kurono knew that one guy had used the x-rifle to snipe with quite effectively. And yet, on following missions, he didn't think to do that himself.
Kurono wasn't a total idiot though. He did figure out how to use the dial to adjust the strength and firing speed on the guns, and also to queue up multiple opponents at once, to then shoot at once and take out(as scene on the Tae mission, he shooting those guys in the alley at once, and before that, when he queued up a lot of dinosaurs at once and in one shot killed them.)
You're leaving out a lot of stuff when trying to understand why their reactions aren't normal. Their reactions actually are the most basic and, maybe not for you, logical reflexes humans have when in confrontation with fear and confusion.
As the reader, given a semi-omniscient/exterior point of view, you (this is a general use of you, I'm not aiming directly at you and only you; you stands for the reader) don't have the same feelings and stress the actual characters in the manga feel in the Gantz world. If it's the first time they go in Gantz, they're already baffled by the fact that they should be dead, yet they feel alive. Yes, they're given explanations by previous players that this is actually a sort of survival game, in which they can decide their fate by fighting and staying alive or by dying. Just that would make anyone confused, it defies the natural rules of physics and logic they grew up with, it makes no sense to them. This creates a big amount of confusion on their current situation, without even being sent out of the room to start the mission. Some accept it faster than others.
The effects of confusion, during the mission, will leave them baffled at the first sight of an alien, even if they were warned about it. As much as there are a crazy amount of occult fanatics and alien believers, which we can believe to also be the case in Gantz since it is strongly connected to our world, there are also a lot of people who stop believing in the fact that THEY will ever see an alien. They don't deny the fact that they exist, they deny the fact that they'll see one. Faced with an alien, after being told they are still alive although having memories of their last moments before DYING, what would most people think? "What the hell is all this?". Depending on the person, they stand still, asking useless questions such as "What do we do?" (although the answer is logical if you've been reading the manga from the start and aren't in their skin) and forget everything they've been told (such as "Shoot every aliens, if you die you won't come back").
That's just taking in consideration the confusion factor, but there is also a far more important one which must not be forgotten. It explains most of the reflexes we've seen throughout Gantz, and it happens daily even in our world. Fear. How does it happen and what does fear cause? Facing something you've never seen, getting chills down your spine, wanting to stop facing such problematic sights... running of course. More than half of the players forget they were even carrying a gun, they probably dropped it already to turn around and run away asap. Other players will be too scared to even move, paralyzed by fear. And the small percentage of people, we've seen this in Gantz too, will raise their gun (like bugz said, it has a futuristic/toy look; the kind you only see in movies. This is related to confusion, "Why not give it a try?" or "I can't bother, this won't work" are thoughts that will shoot through your head in less than one millisecond) and shoot; it didn't always bring good results (example: first mission with the onion alien's dad; someone shot towards him, but using the delay he placed the body of someone else who was paralyzed in front of him. Shooting didn't help at all here, right?).
You can't call them retarded for being human, that's kind of idiotic. A retard would logically mean something that's unusual, such as brain deficits; but their reactions are 100% human, there is nothing "retarded" there. You just think that because you don't understand it, but that's obviously normal as you are an outside reader to their situation; some might be able to put themselves in the place of the players and try to live the missions while reading, but even then they won't be able to perfectly take everything into consideration.
Just because you've been through one or two missions doesn't mean you become immune to this. The aliens are becoming more horrific, unimaginable shapes coming straight from Oku's mind; so even after having faced an onion alien, some Buddha statues and more, you can still be shocked/frightened by new figures.
There's nothing unnatural in this, IMO. I just typed this hoping it'd make you understand more on their reaction.
And there was teamwork during the manga; Buddha mission had a nice teamwork, although the stress and fear from new and stronger foes destroyed it. Later on during a small arc we'd basically see 3-4 missions per chapter, thanks to teamwork. The mission in which took place the first time humans could see aliens, there was a nice use of teamwork too; although not too perfect, thanks to the appearance of something unknown to them, creating confusion and fright. We had a team that was experienced, they faced many missions yet didn't manage to bring down the boss together; it shows that my point about experience doesn't lead to immunity. Yes; the more you relive them, the more you'll get used to it. That's logical, we have such results in the real world (murderers, feelings of guilt when doing something horrific; do it 10~20 times again and unless you're an angel you'll be starting to feel less guilty; that's also called passive brainwashing) and also in Gantz with people like Izumi and Nishi (yet was scared to die, he's used to winning missions; his first meeting with death pulled out his real personality where his age also takes effect).
Hope this helped.
Edit: About the fact they forget there are snipers, invisible/stealth mode, etc; They managed to survive a round without the use of it, they have no experience with snipers (the guy who had one during the Buddha arc was a military, he KNEW how to use one, it's a very difficult gun to truly be able to master and they don't really have time for that), so they forget things. People forget, they might think "oh, that might end up useful", then get distracted by something else; you expect them to remember something for the next mission? Most people will rather rest their minds if they survived a mission, because they had a harsh time staying alive and not freezing up because of fear, they won't remember the 1 second they saw someone go invisible.
You expect too much out of them. Although this is a manga, Oku is trying to keep this pretty real and familiar to the real world, especially with reactions and human stuff, no one is perfect. If suddenly Gantz came to be real in this world, we would know what to do thanks to the fact that we read it, but most people won't be able to think logically (some will, that's how some people managed to survive in Gantz) and Oku is showing that.
TL;DR: Fear and confusion. Answer to your question.
Nothing I said is out of anyone's grasp, it all comes down to logic. It felt quite long to type because I'm stating things I considered obvious. The least you (IAmSorry) can do is read it to widen your knowledge on this, which is very important in our world, too. It might seem long and boring, but I tried to give out a very detailed and hopefully easy to understand argument, and if you're not close-minded you shouldn't mind reading it just to know what others think.
Last edited by Bindy; 01-01-2009 at 10:07 AM.
Most Managakas will try to create characters that are related to the reader in terms of character.
People in the Gantz room are not pro soldiers to begin with. They are just dead and find themselves in a strange room with a ball, then they are transferred in the middle of a battle against aliens. The reactions of this people are well depicted by the author as far as I'm concerned. Maybe in the same situation you would react like a veteran. not even arms and legs trembling a little bit, but who knows? You can't even prove it, or, wait, maybe if you die now you'll be transferred in the Gantz room just in time for the next chapter so that we can be amazed by your smart attitude...
Last edited by Tormentor; 01-01-2009 at 11:42 AM.
Good point. Not everyone thinks the same method. While I look at things and try to figure everything out in a logical manner, others do it differently.
"Hey, we have to kill aliens," someone said, well, I'd get the biggest gun there, taking this quite seriously, since I had just been killed and made anew.
I'd see the scope on it, and decide to test its range right away. First thing in my mind.
Just two triggers, a dial, and a pump on it to figure out. Wouldn't take that long to master.
And the word "retard" is rather offensive. Sorry about that.
But really now, when someone demonstrated how strong the suit made you, and told you what it did, would you refuse to wear one, simply because it looked "gay"?
"The aliens will rip you to pieces! You have no chance of survival without the suit on!" a veteran warns.
"Well, at least I'll die with style. Better dead than dressed in something that awful."
And there is a lot of standing around, talking, instead of acting. Freezing up at times, of course will happen, but you don't stand there having a casual conversation, while people are dying, wondering what to do. You keep on shooting, until everything is dead.
It's simple, one or two arcs wouldn't make any money. Retards are profitable.
Last edited by Nu_Delic; 01-01-2009 at 12:59 PM.
As I said before I can understand people going shock and freezing. Like in war, if you see your squad (friends) killed or you see people dieing around you, fear gets ahold of you. Some people might think that "If I was in that situation, I would certainly not freeze!" ... I am not thinking that way, you don`t know how you will react.
Originally Posted by Bindy
Have you ever watched a movie and thought "What the **** is he doing? Don`t do that! You stupid ass ...", because the choise he is making is poor. It is more entertaining to see someone choosing an option that you did not think off or doing exactly as you would do.
Originally Posted by Bindy
The thing that you would do, and the thing that you would think about doing are different things ... True. And again, I am not talking about those who have just died and entered the room. I can somewhat understand their reaction ... Well, lets hope that I don`t end up in Gantz, but if that happens and I survive the first round, you will be seeing me hiding using the cloaking device and sniper rifle. Also I will be carrying the gun for sending for those self-healing aliens ...
Originally Posted by tormentor
Last edited by IAmSorry; 01-01-2009 at 04:12 PM.
That's IF you survive the 1st round. 1st round is the hardest part. You only survive if you meet a veteran with katou type, imagine if you meet with nishi type.. you're a big goner
Originally Posted by IAmSorry
Tags for this Thread