12-13-2008, 10:58 AM
12-13-2008, 11:23 AM
That was just some random thought of mine,but you have a point.
Originally Posted by Cali
Although IŽd still think he wonŽt go suicidal...The old Kurono was somewhat ignorant and he actually didnŽt care for anything (as far as I remember it).So I actually think heŽd bang Reika and perhaps try to kill the other Kurono....
Of course,this could be BS,but who knows? xD
12-13-2008, 11:36 AM
^ But you're assuming the 2nd Kurono, if that's even possible, would have a different memory set than the most current one (after the oni mission), which I believe it's a bit of a mistake.
Anyhow, even if we suppose Gantz would fulfil Reika's wish, the old Kurono would only get her for her looks, would be an asshole and wouldn't even be that good a gantzer.
12-13-2008, 12:51 PM
If there is a 2nd Kurono, granted it is a BIG if, there is no gaurantee he would be evil.
Let us look at a real life example. There are children born out of incest and rape, and these children had no choice in selecting their parents, or even selecting whether or not they wish to be born out of such circumstances. After they were born though, they had to keep going and find something in this world worth living for. Not all of them commit suicide or horrible crimes.
If a second Kurono is created, maybe he would resent the fact that someone played God and gave him a crude reality; maybe he would resent there is another Kurono having the things he wanted, i.e. Tae. But that does not mean the 2nd Kurono would go evil for certain. Once he is created, he has to face the world. Even Frankenstan tried to create a somewhat normal life for himself.
I remember there was this rather classic literture, where an identical twin were adapted by different peope. One was adapted by a rich family, and the other by a poor family. In that story, the one adapted by the poor family did not go berzerk over the fact he was not rich by a twist of fate.
12-13-2008, 01:04 PM
^Who said anything about a 2nd Kurono being evil in the first place..?
Your analogy, sincerely, is quite extreme and very distant from the manga situation of a 2nd Kurono. It's a completely different thing, being a clone and shit. Especially, if you already have a life based on goals that you won't be able to share, such as the love for Tae.
And the world wreckage theory, which - as I've stated before - I find unlikely, would be due to the catastrophe and the 2nd Kurono having no care for anything, not really random destruction much less "evilness".
As for Kurono trying to kill the other Kurono, I also find it highly unlikely, because it would already be killing himself, literally, so he could go and end his cloned life instead, since the other Kurono already have more memories with Tae and he would come to realize that surely.
Last edited by Cali; 12-14-2008 at 10:57 AM.
12-14-2008, 01:53 PM
I think Kurono forgot about Tae, but not Kishimoto.
So KuronTWO might be able to feel what KK felt, when she was sitting in Front of his Door.
I don't know how sick Oku is, but I believe it'd be a valid possibility that he fall in Love with KK (again?).
She was one of the Reasons he became such a Killer - she ignored him, he tried to impress her and she didn't even Notice.
And then... That Woman from the Buddha Mission. I don't know why he didn't bring her back yet, she has Dibbs on him at least.
12-15-2008, 03:23 AM
This really only comes from which save point a second Kurono would be brought back from in the first place. Thats even if a second Kurono is even possible (though I did say as Kurono died free he probably couldnt be brought back so...)
1) The Kurono in the beginning would have no memory of Kishimoto or Sei, would only remember Kato as a kid and Tae as the plain jane in his class.
2) Kurono before freedom would be more intent on seeing Tae than stay with Reika. Lets get things straight, it was shown when he brought back Nishi that he has more feelings for Kishimoto. When he got with Sei in the Gantz room he pictured Kishimoto through it. He even nearly brought back Kishimoto instead of Nishi until he realised she would still be in love with Kato, not him.
3) Freed Kurono probably would go with Reika if he could believe she liked him. Though he was forging a relationship with Tae even then because of the emotions and memories that Gantz hadnt fully purged from that copy of him. Again, he wouldnt know of Kishimoto or Sei, and only remember Kato as a kid.
12-15-2008, 03:37 AM
^Just a minor remark on 2... the realization you speak of is purely hypothetical. Personally, I think he didn't revive Kishimoto because he already had Tae, and that Katou would be able to revive her later, so in this case bringing back someone willing to share knowledge - given Izumi's an asshole - would prove way more useful.
He wouldn't go too far with Tae and refusing Reika if he still thought he could bring back Kishimoto for romantic relationship purposes.
And a grand remark on 3: Gantz doesn't erase memories, regardless of what the text for option 1 is; it's already been quite proved that he only blocks certain parts of the memory, which can be triggered through specific events. So it's not like Gantz hadn't fully purged the memories from that copy. Kurono wasn't loaded in an earlier state in that case: it was indeed the Kurono who bet the Oni, but modified - he was laid down in his bed - it also proves Gantz can load the hunters in any position he'd like, with whatever items he'd like - such as Kurono's school uniform.
Now, if he had been loaded in an earlier state, that'd be a different story - like at the end of the Tanaka mission - however, even so we still ain't quite sure whether Gantz wouldn't have the ability to just update the missing memories later (which wouldn't be unreasonable, but isn't proven so far), and there's all that transfer issue...
12-15-2008, 06:42 AM
^Yeah, it seems gantz excercises a fair bit of discretion when he choses what point exactly in time he chooses to bring people back, especially in the heavy damage circumstances. It may be that gantz just makes interval saves, but that only makes sense if gantz has "hard drive issues'. He doesn't need to take ocassional snapshots if he has enough space to store the entire movie.
Originally Posted by Popothepenguin
Originally Posted by Shin_Igami
12-15-2008, 07:04 AM
^Also, adding a little bit more of theorical stuff, now we know that even though super-advanced, Gantz is human-made, therefore it might have limitations - seeing is not a super-powerful being on its own... - we can take, for instance, the number of humans stored in the memory.
In the second volume, when Nishi asked for it, there were 12 rows and 18 lines. Later, after the Budha mission, there were 19 lines. We have around two hundred people stored, not counting the current living ones. The fact that there is a limited disposition on Gantz screen could point to a limit of entries.
In the same manner, as once theorized, there might exist conditions for loading and repairing. I used "repair" here based on Kurono's bullet wound after his duel with Izumi - in which case, Kurono wasn't loaded in an earlier state to the wound he received, but rather got loaded on the ground, after the outcome of the fight, seemingly with the memories of the injury, as opposed to the Tanaka mission loaded state, in which he had no recollection of what happened after getting pursued by the boss - which might've been caused due to his shoulder wound after being picked up: a deep cut.
So it could consume less energy or whatever to repair simples injuries and load earlier states in case of heavy injuries - which would, for instance, sometimes involve creation of matter to replace lost limbs such as Kurono's after the Budha mission - his leg was dissolved by 1000 arms' liquid stuff.
Now, let's apply this theory to the possibility of a second revival. We know not what kind of supply is used in order for Gantz to build matter. We know that is not only a matter of teleporting matter, because of Kishimoto's case, in which the original kept existing, therefore matter wasn't moved, but duplicated. Regardless of that being intentional or not, Gantz must've taken the energy for the procedure out of somewhere. Here we'll have to assume whatever it's used for it is not cheap since it's directly related to something very important: creating life. Now, assuming Reika would get 100 points and try to use option 3 to create another Kurono - maintaining a player already revived on the list would be a waste of memory and maybe resources. Of course, here, we could also assume the points are related to the energy needed to create someone and so it wouldn't be that much of a waste.
However unlikely it still is, to me, I suppose the possibility of a 2nd Kurono is plausible, for one thing: because it was stated in the manga. Last time we saw something uncertain being mentioned - Katou vowing to bring back Kurono, even though he couldn't possibly know if that was doable after someone is freed - it turned out to be true. Reika couldn't possibly assume that just out of nowhere, so the mere mention of the idea points to the author saying "yes, it's possible, and I won't bother with the details".
Last edited by Cali; 12-15-2008 at 07:17 AM.