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  1. #31
    Twilit Prince is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    ^Yeah, if you look carefully at one of the pages of chapter 275, you see it was Cherry that carried Kaze off.

  2. #32
    neometalx9 is offline Senior Member Regular
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    well the msg of the osaka mission for me is that no matter how strong ur team is, nuranihyon will fuck you up....

    no wonder why they put the 2 teams together, for some reason... but at this rate no one thinks it will end.

  3. #33
    Mezmero is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    First post so dont expect much, but I really do like Gantz. If we're talking about the message of human nature in the Osaka mission, it seems to be a message about competition and selfishness. The point being that the Osaka team plays for the sake of gaining power and fulfilling their vices with a blatant disregard for what happens to others. This is an extremely selfish, yet efficient and rewarding way to carry out the missions as their previous experience has shown them. Playing for their desires however was the root of their untimely demise, despite how well they did to that point. Promise of power can corrupt and twist humans into dismissing the idea of survival like the Osaka team. They played the game the way that worked for them and it just got the best of them.

    Meanwhile the Tokyo teams appearance was reflecting on the the nature of competition. They could've started playing like Osaka sooner and gotten rewarded for it, yet they thought more of survival and its gotten them through so far. So to wrap it up: The idea of "competing against" instead of "surviving with" can draw human beings away from eachother. If you live alone, you die alone.

  4. #34
    Cali is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Another way to see it is this mission was intended to show the tokyo team that group playing or solo playing, both of them mean nothing; almost all more experienced players and their cocky attitude are gone, and regardless of being assholes, they were good at what they did.
    The tokyo team usually play based on hope, with a "we can win this" attitude as showed at the fight againt the Oni boss. So, in a way, they have a sort of hope that things will work out alright and that they are skilled enough to pull it through.
    So the message might be never to underestimate the aliens, even though the teams develop, there is no sure way to win, and, once again, there's no mercy to anyone (exceeept our main "heroes" are almost unscratched, and the ones who got wounded are just wounded and not dead, contrary to the Osakan team. Well, anyway...)

  5. #35
    Shin_Igami is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    ^Personally, I am still not convinced as to whether or not we can truly talk of a "Tokyo Team". BSB pointed that out a while back, and i'll just build on that. If you are looking for team work in similar circumstances, you'd normally think of the Oni Arc - The "we can win this" attitude of the Tokyo Team was not something they got on their own - They needed a leader who, through his sustained efforts in the face of impossible odds (Kaze, Kurono, Izumi) inspired the others into taking action. Without this source of inspiration, the Tokyo Team goes back to being selfish, spineless cowards. In the buddha arc, every one was cowering in fear at the giant statues until kurono stepped up and showed it could be done. This shown by Cherry in this Arc when Kaze steps up, then gets shot down. He goes from crying with tears of Joy, to complete despair. It's only when Katou steps up again that he gets his brain cells working. Hands off, this mission highlights the need for leaders. Hands off, this mission also highlights a need for NOT "taking turns at the boss" and thinking in terms of "who gets the kill". Gantz is should be taken like a Job, not a game. If something fights melee, take it down from a distance. If something likes sniping, corner it with a sword. If it looks strong, gang up on it. Until it's been completely reduced to a pile of goo, keep shooting, and even then, you never have to let your guard down. Come to think about it, the osaka arc doesn't teach that many new things. Most of that we already knew from last missions - what we saw here was happened to people who didn't learn these lessons.
    A good example of letting your feelings get the best of you - if dumbass (he's dead, and I say, good riddance) had gone out to help Izumi, he'd probably have survived, they'd might have taken care of HS, and Kurono might still be alive. He let his dislike/hate of another Gantzer dictate his act, and greatly reduced the survival chances of the Team. Another message would therefore, in my opinion, be "no matter how much you hate/dislike" another member, even if you have a good reason to hate/dislike him, in the best interests of the Team, you have to keep him alive. Still, considering we now have Katou, I'd say it's a learned lesson.
    Quote Originally Posted by Popothepenguin View Post
    its kinda pathetic how much time people (including me) on this thread spend thinking about every little thing that goes on in Gantz
    Quote Originally Posted by Shin_Igami View Post
    I suppose it comes from not having any new Gantz to talk about... I feel like a Junkie... o.O

  6. #36
    Cali is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Thumbs up "Excellent work, Sokka"

    Quote Originally Posted by Shin_Igami View Post
    A good example of letting your feelings get the best of you - if dumbass (he's dead, and I say, good riddance) had gone out to help Izumi, he'd probably have survived, they'd might have taken care of HS, and Kurono might still be alive. He let his dislike/hate of another Gantzer dictate his act, and greatly reduced the survival chances of the Team. Another message would therefore, in my opinion, be "no matter how much you hate/dislike" another member, even if you have a good reason to hate/dislike him, in the best interests of the Team, you have to keep him alive. Still, considering we now have Katou, I'd say it's a learned lesson.
    I hand it to you, my friend. The relevance of Sakata's decision of not helping Izumi to all the demises was really something that hadn't caught my attention.
    The "need of a leader" idea was pretty good too, and it's a pretty good message, and it also works in Oku's defense, since if he died want to show that directionless stupidity leads to failure and that once Katou steps up they'll win, that more or less redeems the slowness and pain-in-the-ass-ness of this mission.

  7. #37
    BOBO THE SPACEMONKEY is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    ^^How can you blaim Sakata... You talk down to him like he's the "bad guy" or an idiot. In the first place, he was killed by Izumi and almost a second time as well, which got him in this sick shit, called gantz. It's only natural, that he reacts with: "Well, fuck him, he asked for it". Nobody in his position would think about the team that moment, but of revenge. Only Katou would help him and only because it's katou.


    Btw. Kurono did the same. He was willing to let Izumi die the first time, they were attacked by vampires outside gantz. What does that make him?

  8. #38
    ikari is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    ^ Agreed. I thought Kurono was an idiot when he had that respect for Izumi after they killed Oni Boss - he killed his gf for points. The 100 point thing really cheapenced Tae's life cos Kurono was like - well I'll get 100 points and get her back and by the next hunt he was all friendly with Izumi, her killer.

    As for Sakata, I'd do the same thing. Izumi killed him once and left him for dead in the Tae hunt, I wouldnt bother coming to his reascue no matter how good a hunter he was. Saying that, thats my opinion and my friends have said no-one holds a grudge like me, but no-one has repeatedly in a team of mine wounded me and left me for dead :/

  9. #39
    Cali is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    @ Ikari & Bobo: Well, I can't really speak for Shin, but I don't think he intended to say Sakata was wrong or a bad guy. It's only reasonable that you wouldn't risk your own life to save your killer, unless you're really kind hearted and all forgiving (it's even more interesting in Gantz considering they have died once, so they have this unique situation of knowing who killed you). And Sakata didn't try to get revenge on Izumi, just left him to his fate or something. But considering the what-ifs, and the relevance of Sakata's decision, that was the classical mistake; Izumi died and HS lived, to kill Kurono, to get into the room, and eventually kill the 3-s (ha-ha, such a greaaat loss).
    Revenge or forgiveness or even killing off other human beings, that's all part of people's characters. Sakata, Cherry and Izumi are killers. It's interesting that Kurono only became a killer on the Tae mission.
    It's also interesting that while Sakata wouldn't go to Izumi's rescue, Kurono, who lost his and his girlfriend's life to Izumi, asked Reika to help him at the end of the Oni mission. A very Katouish thing to do, like that time with Nishi, who had killed a human before but was needing help against that Tanaka.
    Why did Kurono help Izumi? Was it an act of a changed man who valued life regardless of who? Or was it the sense of versatility, since he knew Izumi was the strongest member and therefore could help in the hunts to come?
    In any case, Kurono "redeemed" himself from the time he didn't help Izumi against the vampires, intending for him to die. And that proved wise, since only the Kurono-Izumi double attack managed to defeat the boss.
    Not letting your feelings get the best of you plus competent leadership is a pretty valid message in my opinion.

  10. #40
    BOBO THE SPACEMONKEY is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cali View Post
    @ Ikari & Bobo: Well, I can't really speak for Shin, but I don't think he intended to say Sakata was wrong or a bad guy. It's only reasonable that you wouldn't risk your own life to save your killer, unless you're really kind hearted and all forgiving (it's even more interesting in Gantz considering they have died once, so they have this unique situation of knowing who killed you). And Sakata didn't try to get revenge on Izumi, just left him to his fate or something. But considering the what-ifs, and the relevance of Sakata's decision, that was the classical mistake; Izumi died and HS lived, to kill Kurono, to get into the room, and eventually kill the 3-s (ha-ha, such a greaaat loss).
    Revenge or forgiveness or even killing off other human beings, that's all part of people's characters. Sakata, Cherry and Izumi are killers. It's interesting that Kurono only became a killer on the Tae mission.
    It's also interesting that while Sakata wouldn't go to Izumi's rescue, Kurono, who lost his and his girlfriend's life to Izumi, asked Reika to help him at the end of the Oni mission. A very Katouish thing to do, like that time with Nishi, who had killed a human before but was needing help against that Tanaka.
    Why did Kurono help Izumi? Was it an act of a changed man who valued life regardless of who? Or was it the sense of versatility, since he knew Izumi was the strongest member and therefore could help in the hunts to come?
    In any case, Kurono "redeemed" himself from the time he didn't help Izumi against the vampires, intending for him to die. And that proved wise, since only the Kurono-Izumi double attack managed to defeat the boss.
    Not letting your feelings get the best of you plus competent leadership is a pretty valid message in my opinion.
    good example of letting your feelings get the best of you - if dumbass (he's dead, and I say, good riddance)
    The "what Ifs" follow this statement, which makes it look like he dislikes sakata even more just because Sakata refused to help Izumi, leading to kuronos death later. Afterrall, he's a kurono fanboy!

    About the revenge thingy. You don't have to take revenge directly everytime, means he could still see it as revenge, even if it was only Izumis fate to die there . Izumi choosed this path in his life, dieing or living are part of it, like I said: "He somewhat asked for it". I doubt that you get my point as I'm not realy capable of explaining it...

 

 
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