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  1. #31
    Cali is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    I've just remembered something interesting, when Kurono is freed, he comes back to his room wearing the clothes he had when he died. Well... maybe not really that interesting.
    Ok, almost not interesting at all.
    But, now that I think about it... he was loaded in a different position (laid in his bed) and also, on the following day, he comes to his new classroom and talks to his new classmates without finding it odd (for those who don't remember, his whole old class was massacred by the Chibi Alien, not to mention the different dates). This would suggest Gantz didn't just erase what was prior to anything related to Gantz, as usually thought, but really wiped out only certain parts of Kurono's memories, as well as the memory not having to rely on the state the body is loaded. Hmmm... ok.

  2. #32
    Duststorm is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    Cali, about Kurono's memory it can be explained. Remember that Kurono lost all memories that had relations to Gantz, so I guess that he has a vague recollection that all his classmates were killed.
    Anyway it would not make sense for Gantz to erase Kurono memories from the last several months.Imagine going to sleep on the 5th of Oct then wake up at 7th of June, it would be confusing for Kurono. Also a risk to Gantz security
    because maybe Kurono might go to doctor and there could be physical evidence that Kurono's memory has been tampered with.

  3. #33
    Cali is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Yeah... that's what I said, except for the security part - considering the hunters are already visible and all, it doesn't really seem to matter that much.
    The thing is, when I first posted the thread, I wasn't sure about how extensive was the memory modification because I hadn't paid attention to the fact I mentioned earlier.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cali View Post
    (...)Now, has Kurono really lost only his memories of Gantz or all memories since before meeting and helping Katou at the train station?
    At first, I though Gantz could wipe his existence from Kurono's memories, but still maintain other parts of it being intact, like the nickname he was given during that time, Daytime Lantern, but now, since there aren't really well defined time markers within the manga, I supose he might have gone to school and then was called as such and went along with it, since he pretty much thought himself as being useless. The latter makes more sense to me lately, but in case Gantz has indeed more specific memory erasing resources, then he wiped out Kurono's memories of Tae and her memories of Kurono just out of sheer maliciousness.(...)
    Now, instead of wondering whether Gantz has or not the ability to block specific parts of the memory, we could proceed as to debating whether erasing the memories of Kurono and Tae was just sadism or it'd risk triggering both Kurono and Tae's memory of the hunt.

  4. #34
    Duststorm is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    I would say that Kurono would remember Gantz if he remembered Tae, his whole motivation to survive and to succeed in Gantz was because of her.
    Also why would Gantz want to torment Kurono? If Gantz wanted to torment him then it would have never give him the offer to resurrect her. Besides Ganzt has at least some kind of level of respect for Kurono.

  5. #35
    Cali is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    I wouldn't say tormenting, but for that theory it'd be more like a punishment. The idea is that Tae would be inserted into the database to maintain Kurono in the game, give him a reason to achieve 100 points, which means, faring reasonably well during the hunts. And, putting Tae in the same line as Katou, Kishimoto and Sei, for him to want them revived too. So now, he would continue in the game for what, 4 rounds? That could (and likely would) happen, if the rest of the team hadn't "twisted" his goals, by reviving people for him and asking him to go free himself. In this case, I'd agree Gantz would have some sort of respect for Kurono and that's a reason for him to be pissed with Kurono for abandoning the game. Hence, not giving him a happy life the way he thought he would get, would "get'em even".
    And I think Gantz "respect" doesn't really go too far, otherwise he could've summoned Kurono when he was dying, in which case, in spite of having in mind or not Katou's development, he didn't.

  6. #36
    Duststorm is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    I doubt that Gantz erase Kurono's memory was because of Gantz being spiteful, and besides Kurono's life as going fine till the vampires killed him.
    Also if Gantz wanted Kurono so badly in the game it could have changed the rules like that you have to clear 3 times in order to get free. Gantz can change the rules if it wants to.
    Remember the first thing that Gantz told the Gantzers "your lives have ended how to use your lives is entirely up to me that the theory anyway"
    So Kurono left with Gantz's consent since Gantz controls his life.

  7. #37
    Cali is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Now now, "fine" is relative; think about Izumi, for instance. Chances are that, Kurono, not having his greater reason to live - which is Tae - could have a fleeting remembrance of the feeling of the hunt and become a second Izumi of sorts.
    As for leaving with Gantz consent, I believe in order to maintain more or less a certain level of obedience from its hunters, Gantz is needed to keep his word on certain rules, so it would look bad if the promise of going free - which is the motivation for most of the Tokyo team - would be just denied or modified. Hence a "silent complaint" would do the job. But I guess that's looking a bit too much into it, hehe ^^'

  8. #38
    Duststorm is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    First of all Kurono did not lose Tae they already started dating again and not either of their feelings changed. Kurono did not enjoy Gantz to the extent Izumi does.
    Also Cali if Gantz wanted to change the rules without the Gantzers knowing it, it could have just erase the memory of the previous rules. Besides what are the Gantzers going to do about it if Gantz changes the rules, put a gun to its head? Go all emo and start thinking that they will never leave Gantz? As I said in my previous post Gantz has total control over their lives.
    Last edited by Duststorm; 04-26-2008 at 02:46 PM.

  9. #39
    Cali is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    You're missing the point here, it's all revolving around speculation, and I'm not considering what happened after Kurono and Tae recovered part of his memories, because that's something that happened by chance, unless you dig true love and shit. My point is, at first, considering Kurono not having memories, he could end up like Izumi. It's just basically a what if, which in my opinion is plausible. Obviously, after getting along with Tae again, that wouldn't be the case.
    As for Kurono not enjoying the hunt so much, why, do you think Izumi did? If he did it so much why would he choose to go free in the first place? See, now? If they only remember the feeling of fighting for their lifes and the excitement of it - like when Kurono blew the Tanaka boss, when he killed the 8 pointer giant Budha, when he killed the T-rex - it's likely he would prefer such emotions than normal boring life. No?
    About erasing the memory of the rules... what's the fun in that? They strive because they believe they can get something out of it, otherwise they'd just be soldiers doing their job, and I guess it's not absurd to say amusement is as much of a purpose for Gantz as killing the aliens. The Tokyo team doesn't compete over points, they prefer cooperate, but if a Nishi type comes along, well, he'll prefer having all the points for himself in order to complete his goal, which, considering such personality, would be either go free or get a weapon. Setting different kinds of prizes can lead to different kinds of situations and motivations and etc.

    EDIT: And just so it doesn't sound like I'm bitching around or anything, I do agree Gantz controls their lifes, even more so considering Izumi, he was freed and was brought back to the room. All the "how you use your new lifes is entirely up to me" is true, of course, because even if you don't undertake hunts anymore, you can still be summoned back if Gantz so wish and who knows, maybe even killed... we're not sure if he removes the bomb from their heads after all. But I do believe, however, that a certain degree of free will, or illusion of free will, is necessary to maintain things interesting.

    EDIT2: The 5 pointer giant Budha statue.
    Last edited by Cali; 04-29-2008 at 07:57 AM. Reason: @Ikari: Gee, and I was the one to send you the point chart...

  10. #40
    Duststorm is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    I never said that Kurono never enjoyed the hunt but not to the extent Izumi does. He was more focused on surviving.

    Remember when the chibi massacred Kurono's class and the chibi moved toward Izumi, Izumi then smiled in excitement so I assume a significant portion of his memory has returned. Then start fighting the chibi and taunting it.

    Then when Kurono remembered his time as Gantzer he did not go all giddy and start shouting bring it on bitches or start smiling, he was too focused on trying to survive against the vampires. Also he flashback to the Oni mission where then his sole concern was to get enough points to bring Tae back and I doubt he forgotten about that. Perhaps if Kurono did not remember the dino, tae and oni mission then sure he could be like Izumi. But the key difference between them is that one of them wants to fight for the sake of survival more then for amusement.

    But about Izumi leaving Gantz I guess that during that time the shit really start to hit the fan and the mission were like the Nuri ones where most of the team died. So I guess that during one mission where all his team except Nishi got killed so he just left because the missions were just too dangerous to be fun.
    Also I also agree that different prizes are meant for different kind of people like the osaka team which repeating picked option 3, so they can more fun in killing the aliens.

 

 
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