That's an interesting observation, it could be related to the Oni boss openly declaring war against "humans". The other Oni aliens didn't speak to their victims, so some people even thought it was a sort of movie (if memory serves), but at that time he directly threatened them and gave them a good demonstration of what he was up to.
And now I've just remembered, although this is off-topic, the hunters were invisible at the beginning of the Oni mission right? The first Oni Reika finds jumps and the people say "That guy is jumping for no appearant reason" or something of that sort, right? That brings me back to the first time I read it, in which case I thought the hunters only got visible to other people right before facing the Oni boss - contrary to what I've posted somewhere about the team using stealth. But I guess it was a harmless mistake anyway.
This has to be the most interesting thread I've lurked in thus far.
I'm of the opinion that when things go awry memory-wise that it is simply Gantz making a mistake, not messing with people. A part of me thinks of Gantz as evil still from when I first watched the anime, but Gantz himself shows little to no maliciousness in regards to the hunters in the manga. Other then its quirky way of communicating it no longer strikes me as a "bad guy" and in fact it seems to me to be more like the proverbial "boss" or "employer". Almost as if he wants the Gantzers to do their "job" and he uses any means needed to accomplish it. In the Oni mission he ended the timer so they had some leniency in how they approached the situation at hand. In the new mission the field is getting smaller to force them to confront the giant rapist that somehow got his hands on a controller and is Contra-ing is way to victory (up up down down...etc).
So maybe the tech that Gantz uses is all just experimental and has flaws and it still buggy. We don't know much about it and have to wait til Oka fills us in.
Then again maybe Gantz is just malicious and cuts memories off to make things MORE difficult for the Gantzers. When you think about it from there it makes sense to. Most of the things they forget are things that could have a large impact on personality and development. Katou not seeming to remember how what happened to Green Onion nor listening to Nishi's speech or remembering Kei beating the crap out of Green(this is all conjecture since he didn't SAY he didn't remember). Maybe by not remembering all of that lead to him still being somewhat more hesitant in the Tanaka mission. Maybe by Kei not remembering getting his balls up and flying through the sky it kept his ego down and kept him from going REALLY crazy when he had his suit on in the Buddha mission. Maybe its the little things that shape a person that Gantz wipes to make their next course of action more difficult and he's truly evil after all.
EDIT: Also in regards to when Kei remembering Izumi shooting him-maybe Gantz was using this as a reminder to Kei of his mortality making the mission with him not having a suit much more difficult? So it really is one big manipulation?
Last edited by Sidwarrious; 04-23-2008 at 10:11 AM.
Don't lurkz man... good post
I can't really fault anything you've said. This memory discussion is based mostly on what hasn't been said, and is difficult to begin with, because they can't obviously talk about what they can't remember. That said, Osaka arc Katou definitely seems a roll-back to pre-thousand arms Katou, more precisely, the moment where he kills a human-like creature -one arm - his numerous hesitations don't really belong with someone who has already endured an experience like that... but then again, it's katou we are taking about...
Originally Posted by Popothepenguin
Originally Posted by Shin_Igami
To be fair I only lurk in the Gantz forums. More interesting things to ponder about. I didn't really care about "Is teh 4th the leadr of Akusuki!?" or "Obito=Tobi=Teh Smex!?"
But as far as the Katou thing-I think I got it. The memory thing isn't REALLY about Gantz at all! It's Oku's way of excusing himself from having to do any real character development!
About kurono being hit by izumi's bullet, it might not have been a deadly injury...
^ It was an injury nonetheless; we still don't know if Gantz makes a distinction concerning the types of wounds in relation to the sending process.
The only moments in which is evident there's a difference in memory is when Katou comes back in the way he was holding the Onion Dad, when Kurono comes back before being caught by the Tanaka boss, when Kurono returns from the Budha mission (maybe), and when Katou is revived. None of the other characters ever mentioned anything that could lead us to think they retained or not their memories up to the end of the mission or only the last safe position. At least none that I can think of right now. If that's not so, feel free to correct me.
EDIT: Now, for people coming to the room for the first time, it seems the memory is maintained - Kishimoto remembered she tried to kill herself.
So we could assume wounds that don't involve losing a limb don't rely on the last safe position. The only problem I have accepting this is when Kurono returns from the Tanaka mission, if his wound was only a cut, it should've been an easy mend, not necessarily having to load an earlier state.
If so, by the end of this mission, HS should retain his memory whereas Nishi shouldn't. That'd be indeed one fine way of knowing it for sure.
But I have a feeling there won't be any memory remarks, keeping us in the dark yet again.
@ Sidwarrious: Now that you mention it, when Kurono remembers defeating the Tanaka boss indeed he's already a different man, so to speak, so that theory of Gantz keeping his memory to develop his personality - which had already been theorized at Tousen's favoritism thread - would add up.
However, it seems you consider Kei as having lost his memory when he came back from the Onion mission? Because although he says he was the one that transferred the Onion alien (dunno if it's a translation mistake, or Kurono being a show off or whatever), he does remember the y-gun is used to send things up, information given by Nishi only at the very end of the first mission.
And your mortality reminder theory is good too, but I guess I'm more inclined to maximilianjenus idea after taking into consideration Kishimoto's attempted suicide (which I had forgotten).
Last edited by Cali; 04-23-2008 at 04:59 PM.
Remember that gantz is very lazy, most likely it did not want to go though the effort of repairing Kurono injuries from the tanaka boss.
^ Yeah, but it's so much more fun thinking there might be something more than Gantz just being lazy or screwing up as Nishi said. Still, it could very well be so, making all this discussion pointless, but... hmmm... nothing.
off: Hey, man, it's been a while!
Either I meant to say and messed up or something but no I said Katou lost his memory after the Onion alien one because HE didn't seem to remember it. Katou might have been more confident if he remember Kei whooping ass and seen how to use the Y-Gun.
And about the "It might not have been a deadly injury" that still keeps my point. Gantz let him keep his memory of it anyways just to show Kurono that he was very much still mortal and then fuck with him by telling him "Get 15 points or die". Get what I'm saying? Kurono's thinking "I almost died" then Gantz tells him he has to fight dinos and kill a good bit or it's the trash can for him. This falls under the "Gantz is evil" category of reasoning.
Very sorry, I was unattentive and thought you were talking about Kurono, my apologies.
And now, trying to find why the heck I even thought that in the first place I've noticed I mistook your "Kei not remembering getting his balls up and flying through the sky" with that part in the Onion mission when he first witness the suit capacities by jumping to escape the Onion dad.
Once again, sorry.
Now as for your theory, indeed, it's not exactly excluded by the type of injury issue, but while your theory - which I like, as already stated over and over either here or at Tousen's thread (also mentioned over and over) - points to Gantz purposely leaving or taking memory, the idea of types of damage deciding which sort of transfer rule will apply leads to the idea there's a fixed set of rules rather than Gantz will at all times. Which is, of course, one of the main issues this topic is set out to debate.
Last edited by Cali; 04-23-2008 at 07:56 PM.