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  1. #21
    Shin_Igami is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    meh, now you are beginning to sound like a mod too...

    That said, after so many posts on the subject, I am still not convinced about whether Gantz is a good/bad guy.
    @1HP... umm. I can easily see an alien killing another, due to pretty much the same reasons humans kill each other - hate, anger, revenge, power mongering, pure hell of it, different sects/clans/breeds/religions...
    Quote Originally Posted by Popothepenguin View Post
    its kinda pathetic how much time people (including me) on this thread spend thinking about every little thing that goes on in Gantz
    Quote Originally Posted by Shin_Igami View Post
    I suppose it comes from not having any new Gantz to talk about... I feel like a Junkie... o.O

  2. #22
    1 Hit Point is offline Senior Member Frequent Poster
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shin_Igami View Post
    meh, now you are beginning to sound like a mod too...

    That said, after so many posts on the subject, I am still not convinced about whether Gantz is a good/bad guy.
    @1HP... umm. I can easily see an alien killing another, due to pretty much the same reasons humans kill each other - hate, anger, revenge, power mongering, pure hell of it, different sects/clans/breeds/religions...
    But, but, but... one alien race eradicating them all on their path to the complete invasion and domination of Earth has been done before. Do you really want to see a grown man cry? ;'(
    In order to 'acknowledge' the 'irony' I would have to learn two new words today.

    ...

    ...And I'm not going to do that.

  3. #23
    maximilianjenus is offline Senior Member Regular
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shin_Igami View Post
    ^... ehh... man... I don't know what to say Mucho Metaphysical man... actual, that's probably part of what bugs Cherry's Sensei... One soul/one body is pretty much the accepted rule these days... Gantz doing otherwise has a lot to do with "making life cheap"
    There are mangas like dragon ball or death note, which have their own views on death and their religious beliefs-systems, while other simple decide to ignore them and let the reader haev their conclusions. Gantz is one of the later, as the existance or not of a soul has never been implyed in it, even less with the duplicate kishimoto.

  4. #24
    Shin_Igami is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Umm... Maybe I should have made it more articulate - Gantz effectively reduces a human being to a set of memories and a certain type of physique, that can endlessly be recreated. In that sense, it dehumanizes a human life - among other things Gantz seems to do away with any concept of "soul" and "uniqueness". There is no poetry, or beauty to a human life in Gantz - just biology: X-no of limbs, one brain, one heart, a pair of lungs, etc...
    Is that clearer?
    Quote Originally Posted by Popothepenguin View Post
    its kinda pathetic how much time people (including me) on this thread spend thinking about every little thing that goes on in Gantz
    Quote Originally Posted by Shin_Igami View Post
    I suppose it comes from not having any new Gantz to talk about... I feel like a Junkie... o.O

  5. #25
    anhtrue is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    Do you remember chapter 268 when sensei dead, he said"please don't revi me ".I think he knows what he does and what is Black Ball.
    When you dead, your truth life is dead, Black Ball revi and clone another you but it is not you...If I revi like that, please let's me die because it is not me.

  6. #26
    livan627 is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shin_Igami View Post
    Umm... Maybe I should have made it more articulate - Gantz effectively reduces a human being to a set of memories and a certain type of physique, that can endlessly be recreated. In that sense, it dehumanizes a human life - among other things Gantz seems to do away with any concept of "soul" and "uniqueness". There is no poetry, or beauty to a human life in Gantz - just biology: X-no of limbs, one brain, one heart, a pair of lungs, etc...
    Is that clearer?
    Beautiful way to put it. I can see that theme being developed here. But a flip side of that is: What's Kurono then? How do we reconcile with his enlarged "Human-ness", his needs to survive, to live?

    And i would just add that this manga is pretty effed up. And characters have to deal with really crazy situations. So partly, does it even matter if Gantz is evil or not? Cuz I feel like there's supposed to be that ambiguity; in such a morally twisted manga, are you really supposed to figure out whether Gantz is a good guy or not? I think it actually adds a lot to the manga, the fact that you just don't know how to reconcile with Gantz and place him into something.

    I also definitely love the point about how he's a greek god. That is a good call. But in any case, I'm still wondering whether he's losing his grip, as the rules and aliens get out of hand. And i'm also wondering why Gantz or how he let the vampires in. Technically, if you hold a dead person, they still don't get transfered back. So Gantz has perfect power to choose what to transfer. And what to make a copy of. Why the vampires?

  7. #27
    Shin_Igami is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by livan627 View Post
    Beautiful way to put it. I can see that theme being developed here. But a flip side of that is: What's Kurono then? How do we reconcile with his enlarged "Human-ness", his needs to survive, to live?
    This contradiction is what makes the beauty of Gantz, IMHO.
    This is also the reason why I think that the most of the Osakan's won't be featured in the next arcs. Unlike the Tokyo Gantzers, who struggle to hold on to their humanity, the people of Osaka have completely surrendered to the rules of the game, allowing themselves to be humanized. They have no internal "conflicts" and as characters, are therefore less interesting than say Reika, Katou or Cherry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Popothepenguin View Post
    its kinda pathetic how much time people (including me) on this thread spend thinking about every little thing that goes on in Gantz
    Quote Originally Posted by Shin_Igami View Post
    I suppose it comes from not having any new Gantz to talk about... I feel like a Junkie... o.O

  8. #28
    Cali is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    "Bad guy": Manner of speech, the introductory lines the ball presents to the recruited people before they undertake a hunt. Gantz doesn't bother to explain, not even create a convincing line like "you have been chosen to protect this earth", no, it's basically "you're now my slaves, fuck you and do your job well or die again". The earlier mission in which the aliens didn't appear to pose a threat unless threatened themselves. The disregard for human life - exploding the hunters head when off-limits when we've seen Gantz can apply restrictions to the people's senses, including imobilizing them. Even killing to maintain info from leaking in the case of Tae (almost a joke, considering how half-assed Gantz is about other evidences of his existence). While the latter is reasonable, to protect his safety, is also, in human terms, abominable.

    "Good guy": Regardless of putting the hunters to mortal danger, he gives those people a second chance, since they died on their own account (excluding of course the Shinjuku massacre). Of course, this adds more to the psychological effect of serviality than as a good deed, but there's also the third option, for reviving people. Quoting Kurono "This guy might only think of us as data, but somehow I'm thankful."
    Also, setting missions to kill aliens do contribute to the safety of normal people in some cases - we've seen the vampires being predators, and also the youkai's attacking normal people.

    Quote Originally Posted by livan627 View Post
    But in any case, I'm still wondering whether he's losing his grip, as the rules and aliens get out of hand. And i'm also wondering why Gantz or how he let the vampires in. Technically, if you hold a dead person, they still don't get transfered back. So Gantz has perfect power to choose what to transfer. And what to make a copy of. Why the vampires?
    Not sure about things getting out of hand. Why did he let the vampires in? I can think of some good answers to this, as a lot of people has already debated that previously, but the most obvious one would be to replace two recently dead aces - Izumi and Kurono. Others would include showing the vampires they can do nothing against the hunters and the ball in charge. Another one would be Gantz monitoring the vampires from the inside probably using the bomb/head device. We've already seem Gantz has plain control of what's transferred, so saying he purposedly let the vampires in, also considering their suits prepared, is ok.
    Also, Gantz does have info on the targets he sets, so he pretty much knows of the alien numbers and powers.
    Now, about the hunters being visible to normal people, well, I'll agree it's not something previously planned, otherwise it wouldn't change during the Oni mission. But we have to take into account that the rules have been changed in other places too. The Osakan Gantzers do not think it's strange being visible and having no timer, and their missions were different than the Tokyo ones, so the conditions would be different from the Oni mission and still, they too have suffered a "rule change", that is, if the rules were always one and the same to all the balls.

    Anyway, I agree with Shin:
    Quote Originally Posted by Shin_Igami View Post
    At the heart of Gantz, and behind every chapter, there is this question - What is Gantz? This answer is very slowly given to us, using the evolution of individual Gantzers as a medium. The day we find an answer to that question, either the manga will end, or the end will not be far.
    Last edited by Cali; 05-05-2008 at 08:45 AM.

  9. #29
    Duststorm is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    If Gantz is good or evil that depends on the perspective. Gantz seems like a good guy now since it sends the Gantzers to kill the aliens that are attacking the civilians.But until this mission Gantz seemed more evil by sending Gantzers to kill unaware aliens.
    So my point is to humans Gantz is the good guy but to the aliens it is evil.

  10. #30
    Shin_Igami is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cali View Post
    Gantz doesn't bother to explain, not even create a convincing line like "you have been chosen to protect this earth", no, it's basically "you're now my slaves, fuck you and do your job well or die again".

    Even killing to maintain info from leaking in the case of Tae (almost a joke, considering how half-assed Gantz is about other evidences of his existence). While the latter is reasonable, to protect his safety, is also, in human terms, abominable.

    Quoting Kurono "This guy might only think of us as data, but somehow I'm thankful."

    Not sure about things getting out of hand. Why did he let the vampires in? I can think of some good answers to this, as a lot of people has already debated that previously, but the most obvious one would be to replace two recently dead aces - Izumi and Kurono.
    I seem to get quoted a lot lately
    Well, not much this time, only a few bits and ends.
    On point 1: I personally think the first line (Fuck you) is a far more effective and convincing way of making people than (save the world, humanity's last hope, bla bla bla)
    That said, Gantz methods may strike one as bad, but that is just by modern civilized standards. An old chinese proverb goes something like "Kill one man to warn a thousand" and you probably have to go no further than the nearest drug dealing ring to find that this rule is still being applied on a daily basis.

    On Point 2: Actually, considering how the cloaking system was abandoned just after the Tae Mission, i'd call it a very bad joke, at best... alternatively, it could be the result of some very mechanical application of the "rule".

    On Point 3: Kurono is t3h L337 H4XOR!!!

    On Point 4: About the vampires... HS' character build (physique/personality and weapon of choice included) is a very suspicious blend of Kurono and Izumi, both of which he killed, just before becoming part of the Gantz Team... what am I trying to say?
    Are you ready for this Kurono Fan boys and gurls?
    HS may be the permanent replacement for both of them... Evil thought, won't you agree?
    Quote Originally Posted by Popothepenguin View Post
    its kinda pathetic how much time people (including me) on this thread spend thinking about every little thing that goes on in Gantz
    Quote Originally Posted by Shin_Igami View Post
    I suppose it comes from not having any new Gantz to talk about... I feel like a Junkie... o.O

 

 
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