Thread: The Gantzers are much more powerful then they realize....

Oh, I'm not complaining about the characters, or even how the battles turned out. Gantz is probably my favorite manga out there. There's just stupid thing in it sometimes (but nowhere near some of the stupid things in other mangas)

Originally Posted by etufo

Why would you want all the players to be good? The manga would suck incredibly if the teams consist of a dozen Kuronos and Izumis. I actually want some character development, and you also forget most of the players are not natural born killers, so you can't always expect them to use common sense when an alien appears randomly.

The point is only that they are blind to the possibilities available to them. They train to improve, but without any revelations. I haven't read past 1st stage, but already it angered me that the following were unappreciated:
-the x-rifle's sniper capability: not once since the temple mission. Why charge in?
-the guns' locking ability: an obvious tactic while recovering, hiding or running would be to keep pulling the trigger, having previously locked on. Such continuous damage would be troublesome to even the toughest, making it easier for the melee folks
-the capturing gun has tremendous potential for hurting "bosses". Once activated, the only escape is to discard a piece of your body, and it starts with the head. So what if it gives fewer points?
-The 100pts prizes can, as Izumi proved ("before next mission") be received at a chosen time. How about "at the moment of death"? That's what Kurono should have done, becoming essentially free while keeping his memory and remaining useful to teammates.
-a short tutorial for noobs: noone ever thought of making a short compilation of tips and explanations for newcomers. It becomes difficult after the action starts; and all is lost in case of a Total Party Kill.

I know some of that is hard to take in quickly, but please, they've had *months*!
And as for the manga becoming boring - I don't think so. Just more difficult for the mangaka to cover everything. And no, I'm not that great a fan of displays of power from main characters. It's just that once something is introduced, it shouldn't be left out, as though it never was.

Character development is a separate matter altogether, they could still be incompetent while attempting something smart. Of course, a great brawl is more dramatic and easier to write.

I think Reika used the lock-on with the X-Gun in the Oni mission, but I'm not entirely sure.

Originally Posted by kaay

The point is only that they are blind to the possibilities available to them. They train to improve, but without any revelations. I haven't read past 1st stage, but already it angered me that the following were unappreciated:
-the x-rifle's sniper capability: not once since the temple mission. Why charge in?

None of them have that kind of training, and they're in the least useful environment for a long-range weapon (urban warfare with occasional CQB with no prep time and having to go to the enemy themselves). I agree that their engagement range needs to get longer, but sharpshooters they are not.

(The timeframe doesn't even allow for the possibility of sniping, and no one's trained as a spotter, either. Sniping and sharpshooting aren't the same thing, keep in mind)

-the guns' locking ability: an obvious tactic while recovering, hiding or running would be to keep pulling the trigger, having previously locked on. Such continuous damage would be troublesome to even the toughest, making it easier for the melee folks

Is the lock maintained after the first shot? I imagine they'd do it if it were possible. Honestly, the lock-on isn't as useful as you'd think, since if you've got the gun pointing at the person already why not just shoot them? Still, it can make up for the shot-lag, like we saw in the Kurono v. Izumi duel.

-the capturing gun has tremendous potential for hurting "bosses". Once activated, the only escape is to discard a piece of your body, and it starts with the head. So what if it gives fewer points?

Agreed, generally, though I'm betting the gun has weaknesses that we haven't seen because it hasn't been used enough.

-The 100pts prizes can, as Izumi proved ("before next mission") be received at a chosen time. How about "at the moment of death"? That's what Kurono should have done, becoming essentially free while keeping his memory and remaining useful to teammates.

Eh—possibly. It's hard to tell how responsive Gantz really is, but it doesn't really feel like he'd be that helpful.

-a short tutorial for noobs: noone ever thought of making a short compilation of tips and explanations for newcomers. It becomes difficult after the action starts; and all is lost in case of a Total Party Kill.

This would be a big help, but on the other hand, they have enough difficulty just getting the newcomers to take the whole thing seriously.

~J

Originally Posted by cancelok

Even now, they don't do all the things they could to fight better. I remember so many times when they had an open shot with the x-guns and just freaking stood there.

Wasn t that only with inaba and Gantz noobs?


For example. When they were fighting the Giant Buddha, after one shot Kurono just gave up. If he just said "Hey! you 4 people! come over here and don't stop shooting at his ankles until he falls down! the battle would have been much easier.

No, the battle would have taken a hell lot longer, and do you really think that the giant buddha will just stand there the whole time? When Kurono shot it with the x rifle it only cause a scratch it would take too long to blast off both ankles.


Also, I've seen them actually get up close with the sword. They have the ability to stand back about 390 feet and swing, yet they walk right up to an alien and try to attack.

They don t stretch the sword that long unless against very large aliens(dinosaur arc) because it is difficult to control such a long sword not to mention that most mission take place on the streets in which you would have limited space to use a 390 feet long blade.

They do other stupid stuff, like in the Screaming bird arc. They tried to hug the aliens to death? What is that! Why don't they just punch through their skulls! Or at least punch them into a wall and them shoot them while they're stunned....

Well the idea is not that stupid if you are fight one by yourself, they are very fast so it is difficult to shoot or lock on to them and when they use their fatal scream they go near you so it is easier to grab them and crush them from the middle which stops them from there screaming attack. It not the best idea but not a stupid one.

Do you guys know what I mean? And do you agree with me? I mean, if I was in a Gantzer's (like Kurono) place (with no previous knowledge, like them) I would have gotten 100 points 3 times by now.

You know it is easy to criticise but everyone makes mistakes even in a fictional world.

The tutorial would be a nice idea but there are some problems with that.

Where would they keep it? Could they keep it in the room without worrying that Gantz might mess with it or get rid of it? If they kept it some where else how would the new members find it? Would Gantz consider it letting out the secret and blow up their heads? Theres a lot of questions.

And a lot of the stupid things they do come from the fact that they are in a completely new situation. You were just killed yet your in an empty room with strangers and a large black ball. On top of that you see scary ass aliens (who your apparently supposed to kill). I can see how a video gamer would probably adjust to this but a business man or house wife may have a little difficulty. Plus new people don't understand the capabilities of the suits and weapons.

If one of us was put in this situation having our knowledge of Gantz then we would probably be pretty good. But take the same person and put him into this situation with no prior knowledge and we may act more like the nerd from Osaka than Izumi. Except for me. I'd be Izumi-like. Except for the part about being kinda mental.

I could also say:

"If I were in Gantz, I would probably do this and that and if an alien comes around kil him and if he comes close I would use my suit to escapa by thinking like Kurono did on the first mission. And blah blah blah blah blah."

First of all, you have just died. You have to first overcome that with a bunch of other people who know shit about what is happening. Even if you get help from some guys telling you: "hey you've got a second chance but guess what? It's Alien Season." And when you finally say, ok, this guy might be right this stupid song comes up and then a message in a ball tells you that you are dead and that you are a puppet now. I mean, some people might get pretty fucked up with all of this. People's ideologies or beliefs being utterly destroyed, or not. Then some flashy guns show up and a panty-like suit. Wear them or not? Okay you put them on.

You are outside and say, wait a sec, this is my neighbourhood and suddenly BAM! a frigging looking alien or something of the sort comes out, it might look human as well. Now comes the tricky part, I don't know how many of you have wielded a gun in your life, well there are some that don't, if you have, then at first you wouldn't be able to shoot because of the trigger system the guns have. You might be well as dead. Even if you knew how to shoot, if the alien looked like a human or it may be a human(you know Gantz sometimes comes up with things like that) could you kill it? And there are like infinite scenarios apart from this. There could be some nasty looking monsters lurking around, but excuse me if I'm not man enough and start running the hell away from them. Or course there is the chase part, if there is, that most of the time people don't tend to think when they are being chased, they just want to escape.

Sorry if this was like a summary of what happens at Gantz, but saying things like I would have beaten the game 10 times by now, is unrealistic as the manga is. You don't know how would you react at that moment or even if you would survive the first mission.

Tamiel -

PS: Tousen won me at it.

I agree with Silent Killer. They are human. They have their paradigms and personalities.

THAT is exactly the point of Gantz, put normal ppl in extraordinary, life-threatening circumstances and they tend to do stupid shit. Now think about it, would you really have the time to think things thru when say.. you get teleported then all of sudden an emperor penguin that can shoot laser beams from its eyes is 2 ft behind your ass. YOUR ASS

Originally Posted by Kagetenshi

None of them have that kind of training

-I was talking about the training they arranged themselves - used to be at Kurono's place. My analytic mind would, for instance, require measurements of the guns' specs (rate of fire, rounds, accuracy, etc), the suits' (maximum strength, power drain and recharge speed, resistance, if any, to sharp things), not to mention all the other gadgets they have. Possible injuries would be healed, anyway.

I agree that their engagement range needs to get longer, but sharpshooters they are not

-True, but closing in to 3 meters before shooting? Ridiculous.

Is the lock maintained after the first shot?

-I hadn't thought of that. Still, I think it should be, as the lock-on has a separate trigger, instead of the first step in the main one.

the lock-on isn't as useful as you'd think, since if you've got the gun pointing at the person already why not just shoot them?

-to check if you're shooting the enemy, and not a teammate or civilian standing behind it; to safely choose the moment of impact (weaken a boss momentarily as a melee guy charges them); to choose the precise place you want to hit before revealing yourself. Also, the gun can apparently somehow lock on to multiple targets at once - see the raptors.

I'm betting the gun has weaknesses that we haven't seen because it hasn't been used enough.

-obviously the Y-gun's projectile can be easily obstructed, and might have a short range. We'll see, with Katou back.

It's hard to tell how responsive Gantz really is, but it doesn't really feel like he'd be that helpful.

-seems to me he'll agree to anything if you tickle his eardrum -anyway, it would have been worth checking. Just a possible nonstandard use of an asset.

This would be a big help, but on the other hand, they have enough difficulty just getting the newcomers to take the whole thing seriously.

-precisely. And afterwards there is no time for explanations, so we have an average of 2-4 guys going boom for leaving the arena.

Originally Posted by Tousen

The tutorial would be a nice idea but there are some problems with that.
Where would they keep it? Could they keep it in the room without worrying that Gantz might mess with it or get rid of it? If they kept it some where else how would the new members find it? Would Gantz consider it letting out the secret and blow up their heads?

-leaflets disguised as game manuals, at worst. Recall Nishi's webpage, he didn't explode for that.
A good introduction for noobs would be Katou speaking out with authority "Listen up. We've all been randomly chosen to complete a task. The details, including whether you're dead or not, are here. Takeshi, show them how good the suits are.", followed by addressing individuals. None of that "we don't really know ourselves, but..." stuff until afterwards.

And a lot of the stupid things they do come from the fact that they are in a completely new situation.

-we're discussing the veterans here.

Originally Posted by imfeelingthis

THAT is exactly the point of Gantz, put normal ppl in extraordinary, life-threatening circumstances and they tend to do stupid shit.

-True, but most of the characters are no longer inexperienced. We're talking about THEIR behavior.
Consider these "super pros" from Osaka. I can understand their initial confidence, need for thrill and exercise, but the way those two accompanying the sexoholic died... I know they burned weed, but that was beyond idiotic. The panicked guy is tons smarter and more level-headed than quite a few of the rest.

My whole point is: sometime after a mission, being more or less safe, don't they ever sit down and think "What can I do to improve my chances"? Knowing they would fight again, are they satisfied having only the most basic knowlege of their gear? Worrying for the safety of newcomers, don't they search for good ways to convince them of the seriousness of the situation? Such behavior seems unrealistic, a flaw in an otherwise good manga.