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  1. #21
    embrandedone is offline Senior Member Frequent Poster
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    First off, I want to reply to Dragon Trainer

    In less than a chapter, Kei has an entire board of pictures with her

    I believe that is a wonderful plot device and you have completely missed it. It wasn't in one day, but over a long period of time. Notice:

    Picture 1) Tae is the only one smiling
    Picture 2) Tae is only smiling, Kei is fidgeting
    Picture 3) Kei shows some emotion and Tae is smiling
    Picture 4) Kei is smiling and laughing.

    It was wonderfully done. The author was basically telling us that Kei was changing as time went by. Who knows how much time had passed, but it's guaranteed to be a certain while. He, Oku, used this method to skip time and not just go through it bit by bit.


    Flood :

    You are a complete genius! You have said everything I ever wanted to say about Tae and Reika. I almost wanted to start a topic on Reika, but thanks to you, I don't have to.

    Reika's so-called "love" for Kei is the most superficial love I have ever seen. She likes him merely because he displayed his prowress. She fell in love with the killer in him.

    Just one display of kick-ass and she's like "OMFG! HE IS SO LEET! HE IS THE HAXXOR GOD, I MUST HAVE HIM!"

    Only, that's not the real Kei, you see...the real Kei is the one with Tae, the one who strives to be understood. Tae saw the real Kei, fell in love with him and that's that.

    You also said exactly like I wanted. Had Kei met Reika in real life, she'd have just brushed him off as an ordinary noob or a stupid fanboy. Maybe it's just me, but I don't like girls that are that shallow.

  2. #22
    Lord Kickass is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    Yeah it's not like I don't understand how he changed his attitude and all and how they fell in love but she's just not that interesting. She has no background story. All we know about her is that they fell in love because of the massacre and all they had left was each other and all that crap but then we have no idea what her personal life is all about kishimoto in my opinion (aside from hotness) was a deeper character because we know she killed herself and that sets up more plot devices for us to wonder about her past and all that crap. Why do you insist so much that I don't like Tae because she's a member of the itty bitty titty committee? It has nothing to do with that.

  3. #23
    Lord Kickass is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    Yeah it's not like I don't understand how he changed his attitude and all and how they fell in love but she's just not that interesting. She has no background story. All we know about her is that they fell in love because of the massacre and all they had left was each other and all that crap but then we have no idea what her personal life is all about kishimoto in my opinion (aside from hotness) was a deeper character because we know she killed herself and that sets up more plot devices for us to wonder about her past and all that crap. Why do you insist so much that I don't like Tae because she's a member of the itty bitty titty committee? It has nothing to do with that. Oh and another thing is when I said he was superficial at the begginning and all that I was just saying that from everything we've seen so far this isn't your regular Manga and everything is crazy and fucked up. I didn't think he would use such a cliched plot as hero doesn't give a shit about nobody then changes and falls in love and becomes more heroic. I just didn't see that one coming.

  4. #24
    Flood is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Quote Originally Posted by embrandedone
    Flood :

    You are a complete genius! You have said everything I ever wanted to say about Tae and Reika. I almost wanted to start a topic on Reika, but thanks to you, I don't have to.
    I don't know about complete genius, but thank you. I do find that I tend to make horrendously long posts though. I'm sure I could've said what I wanted to say with fewer words.

    But anyway, when you started this thread I thought, "Hey, this embrandedone guy seems to be able to put some thought into what he says and I agree with him. Maybe I should say something." After Lord Kickass posted, I decided that I would. I'm just as pleased as you are to see there's someone else here who understands where I'm coming from.

    Quote Originally Posted by embrandedone
    Only, that's not the real Kei, you see...the real Kei is the one with Tae, the one who strives to be understood. Tae saw the real Kei, fell in love with him and that's that.
    Ah, but is that the real Kei? Can you say that the boring old Kei, who (whom?) all his classmates see, is the real one? Or is it the leader Kei that most of the other Gantzers now look up to? Admittedly there was only the boring old Kei before Gantz interfered with his life, and the hero Kei only showed up after he met Tae, but still. They're just different sides of the same person.

    I guess what it really comes down to is that Kei doesn't have to be a hero for Tae to love him. She fell in love with the regular Kei. You know, even though I hated the fact that Tae died at the end of it, I really liked the Tae hunt because Tae got to see the "killer" in Kei. Kei was able to be fully open with her for once. If Kei manages to revive her and she doesn't remember any of it, I'll be a little irritated. From a character growth perspective, it'll make the whole Tae hunt a waste. I like Tae, but I think her character could stand to grow a little bit. I'd like to see how she'd react to and deal with knowing what her boyfriend is forced to do.

    Anyway, I wasn't really trying to argue with you. Just when you said "the real Kei" it got me thinking.

    Quote Originally Posted by embrandedone
    You also said exactly like I wanted. Had Kei met Reika in real life, she'd have just brushed him off as an ordinary noob or a stupid fanboy. Maybe it's just me, but I don't like girls that are that shallow.
    And he'd probably treat her no better. I'd hate to think of what he'd be like if it hadn't been for Tae's influence. Take his old self, but make him worse because he's just lost every friend he had in the world.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Kickass
    Yeah it's not like I don't understand how he changed his attitude and all and how they fell in love but she's just not that interesting. She has no background story. All we know about her is that they fell in love because of the massacre and all they had left was each other and all that crap but then we have no idea what her personal life is all about kishimoto in my opinion (aside from hotness) was a deeper character because we know she killed herself and that sets up more plot devices for us to wonder about her past and all that crap. Why do you insist so much that I don't like Tae because she's a member of the itty bitty titty committee? It has nothing to do with that. Oh and another thing is when I said he was superficial at the begginning and all that I was just saying that from everything we've seen so far this isn't your regular Manga and everything is crazy and fucked up. I didn't think he would use such a cliched plot as hero doesn't give a shit about nobody then changes and falls in love and becomes more heroic. I just didn't see that one coming.
    Fair enough. When you said in your first post, "I could not stand Tae being with Kei. It was just wrong. That is so not Kei at all." I got the impression that you didn't really understand their relationship. There just seems to be a lot of people who don't get it at all. No hard feelings I hope.

    I suppose Tae would be more interesting if we knew more about her, but I think that falls under skewing things too much towards romance again. That and Oku has designed her to be the kind of girl that pretty much everyone knows. I doubt she has any terrible tragedies in her past, and it would probably be kinda boring if we had to sit through her telling us about the time she had a cat or something. (I personally wouldn't mind, but there's enough people who seem to hate her already without giving them even more reason to hate her because she's slowing down the story.)

    Besides, she's not the only one. What do we know about Izumi for example? Nothing. He's been to Gantz before. Wow. That sure tells us a whole lot of nothing. And though you use Kishimoto as an example we don't know much about her either (Ignoring all the background they give her in the anime). She tried to kill herself. Yeah, well we know Tae likes to draw and read manga. She also likes photography. We don't really know anything about what Kishimoto likes to do, just that she tried to kill herself because of the stress of trying to live up to her mother's ideals.


    It's the kind of situation where if Tae's ever telling, grandchildren for example (Who knows? Maybe she'll get them someday. We can only hope.), the story of her life, she'll start at when she met Kei. Things were pretty regular and boring for her before that.

    Did I say you didn't like Tae because she has small tits? I figured that wasn't the reason after you explained that you still like Izumi's girlfriend even though she was similar. No worries there. I know that's not one of your reasons. But you still said you thought Izumi's girlfriend was better, just by going by looks alone.

    And, while I've noticed that the plot is "crazy and fucked up" the characters can actually be quite predictable. Or at least Kurono. Izumi on the other hand... :P Well, let's just say I didn't expect him to mow down a few hundred people in downtown Tokyo. But that's one of the things I like about Gantz. You've got characters who act real enough that you can generally tell how they're going to react to a situation and then you've got characters who keep you guessing.

  5. #25
    Lord Kickass is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    Well it's not really that we know a whole lot about kishimoto it's more what we don't know. We know she killed herself and that makes me want to know more about her. Tae on the other hand I don't really want to know about her past because it's probably nothing worth mentioning as you said.

    When I said I liked the other girl based on looks alone I didn't mean that she's more attractive I meant that Izumi and the other transfer student showed up around the same time which was right after the buddah massacre so naturally I thought to myself they're ther new katou and kishimoto.

    The other comment was directed at the other guy who kept saying everyone hates Tae just because she's not as hot as kishimoto.

  6. #26
    embrandedone is offline Senior Member Frequent Poster
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    Other guy??????????

    I think i have a name, don't you?

    Don't try to turn the whole population on me. My comments were directed on you. It was you who i claimed you disliked Tae because of her so-called Itty bitty tityy ville.

    I think I'll address your beloved Kishimoto and analyze her, since she's so very interesting compared to Tae. Why I didn't like Kishimoto was because she was a sex symbol, nothing more and nothing less. She absolutely served nothing to the plot...nothing but, if you'll excuse the term, tits without brains. I have no respect for a character that's proportionally wrong and yet so flat a personality.
    You might argue that Kishimoto made jealousy between Kei and Katou...only it wa so short lived, it wasn't even worth it. The sexual frustration scenes, the sex with Lara croft...they might shed light to Kei's persona...only Kei was ALWAYS like that (refer to the sex magazine at panel one) so even without Kishimoto, we could understand that.

    What has kishimoto brought into the plot? Only the sexual coverart for the first 80 chapters.

    And think about it.........whatever made Kishimoto commit suicide was obviously not strong enough to make her commit it again.

    Think about it? Makes sense, no? If it was so freaking tragic, the 'other' kishimoto should have attempted it again. Yet she obviously moved on and forgot about it. in other words, Kishimoto was weak...only weak people have no strength to continue living.

    And finally...if Kishimoto's suicide is resolved, then what? does she add dynamics? will she bring anything to the plot? No.

    Why I like Tae is not because of her past, but she sets up so many plot devices. We look to the future, not to the past.
    Tae has provided us with

    + Character growth
    + Made Kei likeable by the audience, no small feat
    + Love triangle
    + Drama
    + An entire arc based on her

    So, my friend....with the legendary back sub-plot of Kishimoto's suicide.....do you think it holds up Tae's points?

  7. #27
    Lord Kickass is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    I admit Kishimoto wasn't that interesting either but at least there was more mystery behind her than tae. So far none of the femal characters in the story have brought much to the table except to compliment the main character. Kishimoto brought jealous and anger out in Kei which made him start wanting to go to Gantz's room and be accepted somewhere. That was the first time we saw the true killer in Kei was during the Buddah mission.

    Tae gave him something to fight for and a reason to live and make it out of the Gantz games.However neither of them are really interesting on their own.

  8. #28
    Black Mage is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    I dont like Tae because her only "ability" is being rescued by Kei, at least the other girls were capable of something else

  9. #29
    Flood is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Nah. Kishimoto was pretty useless too. The only big thing she really did was save Katou's life. However, Tae saved Kei's life, so they're even.

    Actually, the only real competent woman that's been in Gantz so far is the Lara Croft look-a-like. However, she didn't last long enough for us to find out anything about her.

    I suppose Reika might be a candidate. We'll have to see if Reika survives this mission. If she does, then I might start seeing her as one of the few competent female Gantzers. But that doesn't mean I'm going to like her more.

 

 
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