View Poll Results: who is father in the dream?

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  • the homunculus

    20 71.43%
  • #23

    8 28.57%
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Thread: identity issues

  1. #11
    AtrumIncendia is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by adonai View Post
    Lust doesn't seem very promiscuous...

    And whether or not #23 still held a great deal of pride, it's very evident that the homunculus reflects pride very well. Even stuck in a flask, he wanted to become greater, to obtain more knowledge and power as well as the freedom that both he and #23 lacked.

    As for #23 being prideful, as you can see from the article, pride is characterized by ambition, which #23 definitely lacked, he doesn't seem to care too much about the fact that he's a slave, and he isn't even concerned that he doesn't have a name, or that he's completely ignorant in some ways (though he is offended when it's brought up). I'm not willing to say that it's a result of Pride being separated from him, but in my opinion, his behavior and attitude is certainly no indication that he's not father.
    1. Lust has big tits
    2. #23's (OBVIOUSLY HOHENHAIM) blood was given the homenculi. blood to homunculi. theres a similarity. not pride. understand???????? they look alike. why do i always have to explain that the homunculus in the jar is just a different homunculi. not pride, envy, or wrath or whoever. besides, father IS ALL KNOWLEDGABLE. the homunculi has lots of knowledge (thats how hohenhaim gets smart). i could go on but it won't sink into your brains..

  2. #12
    ramsess is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    The manga also says that there was one "prophet" don't remember how it was said tho...

    One that whent to east and one that whent to west from Xerxes...

    the one in the West is father.... and the one who whent in the east at first i bet is Hohenheim.

    When Hohenheim towards the last chapters rips his chest and starts bleeding its like hes summoning some "homunculi" pawns....like father does.

    Also don't forget ya that homunculy looks like pride but father has that weird third eye in his forehead.


    Father copies Hohenheim's appearance because of the blood given to him BUT keeps some original traits...

    Why Xerxes dissapeared was most probably they had a fight at some point because they dont get along and humans are corrupt and want power.... since father has hohenheims blood he is "kinda" counted as hum from my point of view....

    anyways we should wait to see where that damn dreams ends up in but i say.

    blob = father
    #23 = hohenheim

    good night rofl :P

  3. #13
    AtrumIncendia is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramsess View Post
    The manga also says that there was one "prophet" don't remember how it was said tho...

    One that whent to east and one that whent to west from Xerxes...

    the one in the West is father.... and the one who whent in the east at first i bet is Hohenheim.

    When Hohenheim towards the last chapters rips his chest and starts bleeding its like hes summoning some "homunculi" pawns....like father does.

    Also don't forget ya that homunculy looks like pride but father has that weird third eye in his forehead.


    Father copies Hohenheim's appearance because of the blood given to him BUT keeps some original traits...

    Why Xerxes dissapeared was most probably they had a fight at some point because they dont get along and humans are corrupt and want power.... since father has hohenheims blood he is "kinda" counted as hum from my point of view....

    anyways we should wait to see where that damn dreams ends up in but i say.

    blob = father
    #23 = hohenheim

    good night rofl :P
    HE HAS IT!!! A GENIUS NEWBIE!!! no offense

  4. #14
    adonai is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtrumIncendia View Post
    1. Lust has big tits
    2. #23's (OBVIOUSLY HOHENHAIM) blood was given the homenculi. blood to homunculi. theres a similarity. not pride. understand???????? they look alike. why do i always have to explain that the homunculus in the jar is just a different homunculi. not pride, envy, or wrath or whoever. besides, father IS ALL KNOWLEDGABLE. the homunculi has lots of knowledge (thats how hohenhaim gets smart). i could go on but it won't sink into your brains..
    1. Ok?
    2. That's not an argument at all, you could as easily say that Hohenheim looks like father because father created him.

    Do you have anything besides "the homunculus called him Hohenheim"?

    Try to at least support your argument in some way. "(OBVIOUSLY HOHENHAIM)" isn't an argument by the way.


    And if you really want to argue that "it's the blood", let me ask you this: whose blood was used when Ed and Al tried to resurrect their mother? Whose blood was used when Izumi tried to resurrect her son? Did the results look anything like the blood donor?



    edit: It seems to be tied at 3/3 right now (I voted for the wrong choice...), guess not too many people are that interested in FMA.
    Last edited by adonai; 08-22-2007 at 05:55 AM.

  5. #15
    ramsess is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    Adonai nice argument... but you forgot that Al-Ed-Izumi tried to resurect their loved one.... they did not try to creat a higher form of humans... which are the homunculy....

    They only wanted to get their mom back by creating a human.

    As for what that thing that calls itself a homunculus its not a human is it.... and it wasnt made most probably with the materials use to creat a human body.... which Ed keeps with him.

    These are 2 different experiments so you cant compare them and the results ^^

  6. #16
    AtrumIncendia is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by adonai View Post
    And if you really want to argue that "it's the blood", let me ask you this: whose blood was used when Ed and Al tried to resurrect their mother? Whose blood was used when Izumi tried to resurrect her son? Did the results look anything like the blood donor?
    Touche, as quoted from Cartman. But it seems that the homunculi was created before #23 was born. The homunculi said to #23, Hohenhaim "you gave me life". So yea. Also father was dreaming about those two. in my opinion, he was he was dreaming a memory. He was one of the two. I believe he was the homunculus. There.

  7. #17
    adonai is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by ramsess View Post
    Adonai nice argument... but you forgot that Al-Ed-Izumi tried to resurect their loved one.... they did not try to creat a higher form of humans... which are the homunculy....

    They only wanted to get their mom back by creating a human.

    As for what that thing that calls itself a homunculus its not a human is it.... and it wasnt made most probably with the materials use to creat a human body.... which Ed keeps with him.

    These are 2 different experiments so you cant compare them and the results ^^
    No, the issue of intent is meaningless, what you forgot is that despite the fact that they were trying to resurrect a specific human, the results did not resemble that human at all (the creature didn't look like Ed, nor did it look like his mother), in both cases, even something so obvious, like the hair color, was different.

    So my point is, the blood may be the catalyst, but that is no reason for the creation and the creator to be similar in something like physical appearance. Bringing Hohenheim into the equation is pointless, obviously either Hohenheim or father created the other, and from father's words, it is equally obvious that father is the creator (he referred to Hohenheim as an it and surprised that Hohenheim could have children).



    Quote Originally Posted by AtrumIncendia View Post
    Touche, as quoted from Cartman. But it seems that the homunculi was created before #23 was born. The homunculi said to #23, Hohenhaim "you gave me life". So yea. Also father was dreaming about those two. in my opinion, he was he was dreaming a memory. He was one of the two. I believe he was the homunculus. There.
    I don't get what you're trying to say here, obviously the homunculus came after #23 (so #23 had to have existed before the homunculus), and equally obvious is the fact that father is either #23 or the homunculus. But I've listed reasons for each conclusion, I really do want to know if there's any reason you believe that #23 is father, aside from the fact that the homunculus named him.

    Lets look at things from another perspective, if the homunculus is indeed father, why would he seek to look like his creator (or father, as it were)? Specifically, why would he choose to age? We know that father is immortal, he's been around for centuries at the least, and we also know that he appears old, unlike #23 in the dream. We also know that homunculus definitely do not age, unless they were created from a human base (Bradley, Ling), so even if he had to take his creator's shape (like you suggest), why would he age?

  8. #18
    AtrumIncendia is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by adonai View Post
    I don't get what you're trying to say here, obviously the homunculus came after #23 (so #23 had to have existed before the homunculus), and equally obvious is the fact that father is either #23 or the homunculus. But I've listed reasons for each conclusion, I really do want to know if there's any reason you believe that #23 is father, aside from the fact that the homunculus named him.
    ARGHHHHH I GET SO CONFUSED WITH BEFORE AND AFTER. I MEANT AFTER gomen.. yeah i dont think #23 is father. #23 is hohenhaim, which is why his name is hohenhaim

    Quote Originally Posted by adonai View Post
    Lets look at things from another perspective, if the homunculus is indeed father, why would he seek to look like his creator (or father, as it were)?
    HE WOULD LOOK LIKE CREATOR CUZ OF HIS BLOOD DO I AVE TO SAY A KABILLION TIMES!?!?! BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD!!! thats why he loks like him. maybe he never decided to change his look or something.

    Quote Originally Posted by adonai View Post
    Specifically, why would he choose to age? We know that father is immortal, he's been around for centuries at the least, and we also know that he appears old, unlike #23 in the dream. We also know that homunculus definitely do not age, unless they were created from a human base (Bradley, Ling), so even if he had to take his creator's shape (like you suggest), why would he age?
    okay...

    maybe the homunculi took form of hohenhaim when he was older, maybe. just a thought. Oh yeah you asked me if he ages, and you just said that the father doesn't age. I know he doesn't age.
    Last edited by AtrumIncendia; 08-22-2007 at 07:16 PM.

  9. #19
    chinsee is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    ^ you wanna try making posts that makes more sense, is related to what you quoted and with less caps?

  10. #20
    adonai is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by AtrumIncendia View Post
    HE WOULD LOOK LIKE CREATOR CUZ OF HIS BLOOD DO I AVE TO SAY A KABILLION TIMES!?!?! BLOOD BLOOD BLOOD!!! thats why he loks like him. maybe he never decided to change his look or something.
    And I'm saying that it doesn't have to be looked at in that one direction.

    If father looks like Hohenheim because Hohenheim created father, then it could also be the case that Hohenheim looks like father because father created Hohenheim (which is what I believe). It depends on which is the original, and in my view, it's father (I've given numerous reasons as to why).


    edit: nice, it's 3/4 now in favor of him being #23.

 

 
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