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  1. #11
    Urameshi-sama is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Placeholder.
    gj Jakko (on 1st post). Though, when have we ever considered placeholders actual votes? They've always been in place just to show our attendance and indecision.

    @infa- do you not know what placeholder means?
    Stolen Sig Count: 26

  2. #12
    infamouse is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    they make a vote but not for anyone right ?

  3. #13
    Jakko's Avatar
    Jakko is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urameshi-sama View Post
    Placeholder.
    gj Jakko (on 1st post). Though, when have we ever considered placeholders actual votes? They've always been in place just to show our attendance and indecision.

    @infa- do you not know what placeholder means?
    Let me again highlight the important parts I see.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rules
    You’re not forced to lynch, you can placeholder forever but people will get multilynched on tie-votes.
    Inactivity won’t get punished by death, these free extra-kills make it too easy for the mafia to win.
    Tells us:
    1. Not voting does not kill you.
    2. You are not forced to lynch.
    3. You can placeholder forever.

    Analysis:
    Placeholder's this game are completely different this game, as they are not a required element. However, they are specifically included, though not needed, nonetheless. That raises the point of how different they are this game. Do they have substance, this game, when an unnecessary option is added?

    The reason for this reasoning is this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Rules
    Instead of killing at night, the mafia can change one lynchvote during the day.
    Taking these two sections into consideration, there are only three possibilities:
    1.The placeholder vote, though specifically mentioned, has no actual power, and the mafia can change the voting once per night. That means, instead of doing mafia kills at night, they can simply change the vote against someone, and, as placeholder's have no value, have an unblockable kill that not even the Lucky Bastard can survive. The ultimate mafia power.

    2. The placeholder was specifically mentioned, even though it has no actual need in a game where no one dies from inactivity, to counteract the ability of the mafia to change the vote. The mafia can change the vote at any time, even when there are only placeholder votes, but the weight of several placeholders can outweigh them. This, however, leads to the problem of people using placeholder votes to keep people from being lynched in regular voting.

    3. The most likely scenario, where the mafia is ONLY able to change lynchvotes when a specific person has been voted against. Meaning, if everyone votes placeholder, they cannot change anyone's vote. Also, placeholder has no voting weight, as a placeholder is just that, a placeholder, and not a lynchvote, per se, in essence, it is no vote at all.

    Basically, I am trying to get Comp to agree to option 3, but I am going about it in a roundabout way, urameshi.

  4. #14
    Kiamnenieh is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    the game has begun....
    well nice, I would really love to vote bipolar right now(for trying to kill my game..)
    but it will be a placeholder for now....

  5. #15
    infamouse is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    but can you can your place holder to a lynch vote if you want to!!!!!
    (no one is answering my questions )

  6. #16
    Urameshi-sama is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    @Jakko-Um, just to let you know, my gj from before wasn't sarcastic (noticed it sounded that way on 2nd read).

    And, I get what you're saying now. I just took the placeholder as one of those useless customs adopted into this game due to precedence, but you bring up a valid question.
    Stolen Sig Count: 26

  7. #17
    bipolargraph is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by kiam
    the game has begun....
    well nice, I would really love to vote bipolar right now(for trying to kill my game..)
    but it will be a placeholder for now....
    You lazy bum, I led the mafia to victory (in spirit). :P

    I'm still thinking of ways to spam like poop, I was going to suggest that I get pinged and guarded, and that people tell me their roles but I've done that in the past, and it gets annoying when the guard doesn't protect you.

    Ok, guard, cover me, seer, ping me, everyone else can tell me their role after I'm confirmed. Good plan for starters? (Even if I die, I can let the rolled people know who's who so that they can cooperate better.) I at least better try. (I don't have a role, so the mafia would be wasting kills on me if the guard/seer act lame :P)

    Ps; Does the lucky bastard know who he is before he dies?

  8. #18
    sakura_hana is offline Senior Member Community Builder
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    Placeholder.
    But this way we'll just wait for the mafia to kill and try to catch them by looking at the "pattern".They will always be one step ahead of us and we currently relying on our sheer number.
    Well, for now, it is the best thing to do but I wonder how much we can keep this up.


    @Jakko: number 1 seems far to powerful. we wouldn't stand a chance against such mafias. so, yeah, number 3 seems likely to be it and that means we have the advantage there.
    Last edited by sakura_hana; 04-09-2008 at 12:22 AM.

  9. #19
    Compjotr is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by infamouse View Post
    but can you can your place holder to a lynch vote if you want to!!!!!
    (no one is answering my questions )
    You can change your vote with every post you make if you want to but please don't, would be painfull to count these votes ...

    Quote Originally Posted by bipolargraph View Post
    Does the lucky bastard know who he is before he dies?
    Yes, he does.

    @Jakko
    Placeholder does not count as a vote, it's nothing.
    So 1 vote on me and 5 placeholders won't save me and (if I were playing) the only vote the mafia could change would be Evails lynchvote for me.

  10. #20
    bipolargraph is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Quote Originally Posted by sakura hana
    But this way we'll just wait for the mafia to kill and try to catch them by looking at the "pattern".They will always be one step ahead of us and we currently relying on our sheer number.
    Well, for now, it is the best thing to do but I wonder how much we can keep this up.
    If these guys are good, there will be no pattern. The best way to play right now is as a group. Ok, looks like i'm not gonna spam you guys after all.
    If we play as a group the way I said so then.
    1) Both me/seer/guard/corner will all be known to each other. Three unnecessary pings saved by the seer.
    2)If I die, since I'm roleless, they can pick someone else who's a confirmed townie to be the representative.
    3) The best way to confirm this is for a seer to ping me today, then contact me tomorrow. The guard can cover me, but if he acts lamely I'd die. The mafia also would hope the guard will act lately, and I'm expecting them to kill me sooner or later (since I wasn't protected in the past when I volunteered to be the rep.).
    4) The worst thing for the townies is hesitancy, in which the mafia have the advantage. They are acting as a group, and they'll stick together in the forum, so we need to stick to each other to beat the mafia.
    5) Every confirmed townie we ping will be put up as an unrolled so that we don't lynch him.
    Now doing some math:
    3 mafia, 14 townies.
    1 kill everyday, 1 kill every three days, so it's like 1 and 1/3 kills. (Not counting the guard for the worst case scenario/since he'll guard me or the seer/someone else.)
    The mafia needs to kill 11 townies. We have 8 or 9 days about until they kill 11 people. Considering that we'll ping someone in these 8/9 days, their number will decrease to 2 or 1 people.
    6) Only guard me for the first 2/3 days then guard can cover the seer for protection.


    Ok, any objections. I'll really be ticked if the guard doesn't cover me tonight. If that happens I'll spam like a turkey in future games.

    Quote Originally Posted by comp
    So 1 vote on me and 5 placeholders won't save me and (if I were playing) the only vote the mafia could change would be Evails lynchvote for me.
    Doesn't really matter if they change evail's vote tonight since they'll get a kill anyways. This only worries me end game where the mafia are almost at full power (almost half the townies), and the townies will be reluctant to vote, which will lead the mafia to overpower the townies, and save a few of them.

 

 
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