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  1. #31
    d.A. is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasonred79 View Post
    ... measurable weight of 13 grams and mass of 50 grams? ... First of all, weight is measured in Newtons, or units of Force. Grams, Kgs, etc are units of mass.
    Measurable weight of 13 Newtons excuse me. The example shows that gas produced from the reaction are leaving the weighable system and don’t factor into weight.

    Quote Originally Posted by jasonred79 View Post
    2nd, you can't change the weight of something by your given methods. Weight = gravitational Force on body from Earth (rough definition very rough) = mass of body x mass of earth x gravitational constant. So unless you're generating your own magical anti-gravity field, your statement is said BS.
    Same as above. Take out gaseous parts and elemental waste from the decomposition of hydrogen and oxygen (like from the kidney example) and your weight reduces. You can change your weight, just like losing a pound after taking a dump.

    Quote Originally Posted by jasonred79 View Post
    Hmm. Even if you are stating some figures by unresolving atmospheric weight. (which if you're dealing with gasses is a BIG deal, since otherwise you get 1kg of air has a weight of zero N, whereas it actually weighs 1kg but is equally balanced by dispalcement force of 1kg of air), the only way to get 100kg to weigh something like 300 N is for it to be mainly in the form of gasses. In other words, if your pig is still 75% of his initial weight, but 10% of it's "weight"... what you've got is a magical balloon pig inflated to bigger than a bedroom since it's completely full of air.
    Gasses among others leaving the system. If you separate mass from your system and divert it to the surroundings, the actual weight of the system will continue to decrease. Water weights something; however when you separate water into hydrogen and oxygen the weight, like you said, is virtually zero. What is wrong with that? 96% of your body is made up of Nitrogen, Oxygen, Carbon, Hydrogen—all elements that can be decomposed into a gas. The remaining elements such as phosphorus and sodium are then removed through natural decomposition via chemical means. Rather than a balloon it's more like a piece of jerky, the mass lost of the meat is relatively smaller than the weight lost. Extrapolate that effect and you have the basis of the controlled dehydration experiment in question.

    The problem with this is the process of returning all those elements that aren’t N,O,C, or H which can be classified as electrolytes is much more complicated than taking them away.


    Quote Originally Posted by jasonred79 View Post
    ... also... even if parts of your statement are accurate... your statement of "living" and "dehydration" implies that it's "alive" if the heart and brain are functioning (which I doubt since the heart is NOT going to keep beating in your said example unless they separate it from the rest of the cardiovascular system and artificially susticate it, ditto the brain), you could theoratically get a large mammal, near freeze it to slow all processes, swiftly remove the heart and brain, and utterly nuke the rest of the body. WALA. Since you count "reducing a hydrocarbon compound to it's component atoms" then "removing oxygen and hydrogen" as "dehydration" and "alive" as "part of it survived the process... for a while anyway".
    I’m confused by this. It didn’t contradict anything of mine. It simply stated that you can remove the brain and heart and other vital systems and trash the rest of the body that you can keep something alive which is true. An extreme controlled dehydration experiment is the similar except that the body is still kept to a state where it can be returned to normal rather than trashing it. Using a styrofoam cup holding water as an example, with the cup being the body and the water being the vital systems, rather than throwing out the whole cup like in your process of organ removal, within the controlled dehydration, the cup is shaving excess mass off itself to the point where it has just enough styrofoam to still hold water.

    If you boil everything down, the difference between the two is that the 70% body water value is measurement of the mass of the body and reports water as percent of the total body mass, while the 87% value measures the weight of the water based on an accurate compilation of percent composition of water within cells in the body, and 83% from the compilation of percent composition of water within non-vital cells.

    Like I said earlier, the pig survived the initial dehydration but couldn’t recover electrolytes fast enough at the rate of re-hydration (hyponatremia) during the experiment. That was at the point of losing 87% of its weight in water components. It however, was able to perform functions before its death to signify that it was alive and could survive long term.
    Last edited by d.A.; 03-06-2007 at 03:04 PM.

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  2. #32
    jasonred79 is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Quote Originally Posted by d.A. View Post
    Measurable weight of 13 Newtons excuse me. The example shows that gas produced from the reaction are leaving the weighable system and don’t factor into weight.

    ... 130 Newtons aprox... grav constant 9.8 or so, not 1...


    Quote Originally Posted by d.A. View Post
    Same as above. Take out gaseous parts and elemental waste from the decomposition of hydrogen and oxygen (like from the kidney example) and your weight reduces. You can change your weight, just like losing a pound after taking a dump.
    You are not only chaging your weight, but you MASS too when you take a dump btw.

    ... you seem to be confused as to gasses "leaving the system" and "remaining as part of mass" and "not factoring into weight". Basically, if any mass (gas, liquid whatever) is part of the system, it's mass, weight and volume etc are part of the system. If any mass is EXTRACTED or removed, it is no longer part of the main body and is not included in any of above.

    Also, actually, I have large issues with your "gasses weigh nothing" thing. According to your theory fish, whales and such are all weightless since they would show a weight of nothing if you placed them on a scale in their native environment. They float. duh. And for someone who is talking about chemistry and such, the fact that air has a density of 1.2kg/m3 is sort of significant.

    I never said gasses weigh nothing. I said that in a normal atmosphere, a gas will displace an amount of air equal to it's volume, so the weight of the gas is balanced by the weight of the air. 1kg of oxygen weighs 98Newtons, same as 1 kg of metal. It's just that it occupies a whole larger volume and thus is balanced by it's bouyancy.



    Quote Originally Posted by d.A. View Post
    Rather than a balloon it's more like a piece of jerky, the mass lost of the meat is relatively smaller than the weight lost.
    ... You saying dried meat has more weight per mass than normal meat? ... I...
    Your example of jerky... where in the world did you come to that conclusion? The mass lost when you dry out meat in this manner is EXACTLY EQUAL to the weight lost. Even if you factor in the fact that jerky has more mass per volume and thus displaces more air and it's measurable weight is slightly less... possibly if you dry out meat if it loses 1kg of mass, it might show that it's weight on a weighing scale shows a loss of 1.001 kg...




    ... Oh MY DOG. I just thought of something... I think you better either look up a dictionary or else go look up your experiment again. There is a BIG difference between VOLUME and MASS. Which I think you have confused.


    BTW... for a pig to be at 10% of it's original measurable weight yet 75% of it's original mass... a 100kg pig (just a round number), would now have measurable weight 100N (g=10 rounding) and mass of 75kg. Therefore it must be displacing 65/1.2= 54 cubic metres of air. Your pig now occupies a space of almost 4x4x4 metres... seriously a nice magical pig balloon, how cool!


    Quote Originally Posted by d.A. View Post
    Your example is disjointed: methane like most other hydrocarbons reacts to create water, oxygen and carbon dioxide. In that example, 50 grams of methane turns into a measurable weight of 13 grams while still maintaining a 50 gram mass. Everything organic is made mostly out of hydrogen carbon compounds like methane.
    ... First of all, you talking about solid methane here? Eh... Or you talking about methane GAS, which, you know, being a gas... that floats...
    Also... you know that your reaction there is actually methane+ oxygen to get water, and CO2...

    ALSO:
    By mass:

    44g of methane + 64g Oxygen = 52g Carbon Dioxide + 36g water


    by measureable weight (fine fine in kg):

    0g methane + 0g Oxygen = 0g Carbon dioxide + 36g water ... which is pretty ridiculous equation which is why no one uses measurable weight anyhow...


    So, all in all, you are completely FULL of Bull. Please try to impress others with your great love of technical terms and stuff... I know a lot of people hear "hyper metabo auto supremo" and "moon salt shells" (which I've never heard of and am sceptical of... , but I will not debate the existance of... since *I* do not state things without proof...), and people think to themselves, "wow, he sounds so technical, he MUST know a lot of stuff.

    Meh... actually, the main reason I got worked up about the whole matter was my pointing out some unrealism in HnI, and you then blasting my post and saying I didn't know much and trying to show that you did. ... hmph.

    Is this topic over now?
    Last edited by jasonred79; 03-08-2007 at 10:05 AM.

  3. #33
    Kenryo is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    I'd like to say, HELLO, this IS a manga, it's unrealistic to make it more exciting. That is what mangas are for, to let your imagination run wild. Process that information through your brain dammit.

  4. #34
    Katana Soul is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Hmm...well really I just made this topic out of curiosity so I knew what to expect going in,

    Anyway, I have another question after watching a handful of episodes: Does Sena's identity stay hidden for very long? Secret identities really frustrate me >_<

  5. #35
    jasonred79 is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Spoilers (obviously)







    About as long as Spider-man's in the current movie series... is the current one out yet?

  6. #36
    Katana Soul is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Well, it took two movies for Spiderman, but I don't really know how that translates into anime episodes.

  7. #37
    jasonred79 is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Heh. My point exactly. I don't want to spoiler it too much... also, I forgot which chapter/episode it was exactly...

    IMHO the mangaka did it very nicely though. Just long enough that the running gags concerning the secret identity remained funny. And the unveiling was also a good storyline moment. All in all, nicely done.

  8. #38
    shamenking101 is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    eyeshield 21 would be before prince of tennis

    prince of tennis..

    i mean who the hell gets that badly injured during a tennis game

    and like streaks coming out of the ball

    at leasy eyeshield it does have actualy info on football
    and all unrealistic stuff sort of get explained

  9. #39
    BestBacon is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    at one point of the mangas.. don't they have a page saying that you can also produce similar effects of the devils bat run.. forgot what chapter that was ;o but mayb that might be real?

  10. #40
    skip430 is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    EyeShield 21 is a good solid manga that give alot of info about American Football. But, as all mangas do, it over exagerates the techniques used in footbal to the nth degree. However, most (if not all) of the hyped up techniques are based on football techniques and are (for the most part) possible in real life. How USEFUL some of the moves actually are, well, sena's new move in the last chapter is an example of a..... non useful technique in ES 21 that is made very exciting... so yeah...

 

 
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