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  1. #21
    jasonred79 is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Quote Originally Posted by d.A. View Post

    Surprise! The weight of the human body is on average 83% from water. That means you can lose up to 83% of your weight just by drying yourself completely out.

    Dropping from light heavyweight to middleweight is a 10-15 pound drop.

    It's not as obscure as you think. Oscar Larios has fought in five weight classes. Erik Morales was able to win championship belts in four different weight classes. Hell, even away from boxing, Hydroxy cut works why? It seeps the excess water in your body. Even body builders limit their water intake before an exhibition so that their muscles are more defined for judges to see.

    Obviously you don't know much about it, but it is actually quite realistic. The unrealistic part about it was how they portrayed Takamura's skin to be completely and over-exaggeratedly dry.

    It is not that realistic. Takamura drops from Heavy To Junior Middleweight doesn't he? I recall him saying he'd conquer 5 weight classes or something right? For pros, thats a drop from 201 lbs to 154lbs. 46 lbs. Light Heavy to Middle is only 2 weight class drop, which really isn't very drastic by boxing standards. (it's a little more than usual though). i don't know where you pulled those categories from.

    Again, I don't know how you came to 83% water content. I don't know what your body is made of, but most humans have around 60-70%, with athletes at the higher end. (body fat has more water). Also... you're even less realistic than a manga. Losing 83% (fine, 70%) of your body weight by dehydrating lol. Yeah... if DYING isn't a major concern! Losing even 2% of body water can cause giddiness. Figures show 15% or greater dehydration is usually fatal.

    Oscar Larios might have fought in 5 different weight classes. Heck, I myself dropped from 200lbs to fight at 140lbs. (Amatuer boxing different weight classes). The difference is IT'S OVER A LONG PERIOD OF TIME. Furthermore, and this is the cruical bit, once we're near a certain weight class, WE STAY THERE. You'd have to be an imbecile to drop to 5 weight classes for a match,
    then PUT IT BACK ON while waiting for your next match to be decided, then have to lose it AGAIN and keep doing this for EVERY SINGLE MATCH.

    I'm not surprised Takamura's skin is all dry like that considering just how badly he's dehydrated himself to make weight, actually. What's unrealistic is his rehydrating and getting it back to normal. And being able to fight. The man should be hospitalised or something.

    You claim *I* don't know much about it? You, my friend, are the one who has his facts wrong. Don't point fingers at others if you don't know much yourself...

  2. #22
    ozarugold is offline Senior Member Respected Member
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    2% loss of body water can cause giddiness? Whoa, scary.

    So how much water do you lose when you pee?

    Anyways, isn't there only like four weight classes mentioned in Hajime no Ippo?

    Meh.

    I'm gonna go eat.
    Are you happy? I am happy.

  3. #23
    Newbie is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    It's a manga, give it a rest now.

    Just stick with Slam Dunk then if you can't handle it.

  4. #24
    d.A. is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    First of all, I assumed that Takamura did in fact drop from a light heavyweight to a middleweight (roughly 15 pounds) which is, like you said, not much of a drop and is quite realistic. With that assumption proved false, the rest of that portion of my post doesn't fare any better. Major mistake on my part.

    Quote Originally Posted by jasonred79 View Post
    Again, I don't know how you came to 83% water content. I don't know what your body is made of, but most humans have around 60-70%, with athletes at the higher end. (body fat has more water). Also... you're even less realistic than a manga. Losing 83% (fine, 70%) of your body weight by dehydrating lol. Yeah... if DYING isn't a major concern! Losing even 2% of body water can cause giddiness. Figures show 15% or greater dehydration is usually fatal.
    A lot of new developments have formed in physiological chemistry since that renal physiology "70 percent of the body is water" concept came out.

    All human bodies have between 62-78% of water by mass. However, when talking about weight percentage and not mass composition, cellular weight composition is the more accurate way to measure the percent of dihydrogen monoxide within the human body since the 70% you speak of doesn't take into account the infused water mass within body parts that don't excrete or absorb water and non-combined water elements that still exist within the human body that would form water if forced to.

    When talking about weight and not mass, 70% is highly inaccurate. The cells in the human body can range from 60-90% water (the average cell within the human body is made of 87% water), thus by dehydrating yourself to the extreme you can lose up to 90% of your total cellular mass (which would obviously lead to death). The 70% "body water" corollary, which you speak of, factors only the organs that are controlled by either aldosterone, anti-diuretic hormone, or atrial natriuetic peptide--namely muscle, blood, fat, bone, and intestinal tissue--however, that doesn't include the organs that are not controlled by those hormones such as the brain, nerve cords, synovial membranes, eye tissue, and other fibrous cartilage within the human body. You also need to consider all parts of the body that include oxygen and hydrogen, which would be chemically dissolved in order to form water for the human body.

    The best example I can think off the top of my head about that last part is the water absorption within your kidney. When you are lacking water for your kidney to clean itself out through urination, it “steals” water from other sources of the body--eventually leading up to the breakdown of your diaphragm and intestinal tissues if no water is supplied. It creates creates “artificial” water from other parts of the body that contain a high amount of oxygen and hydrogen. 10 grams of this “artificial water” leads to the breakdown of roughly half a pound of tissue which is then released with the urine or through cellular respiration as a “natural” waste product.

    When all water and water spurning elements (oxygen and hydrogen) are taken out, the body would be at approximately 10% of its natural initial weight and approximately 75% of its natural initial mass. The difference between mass and weight is due to the elements in the human body that exist in compound with either hydrogen or oxygen which otherwise would be insignificant to body weight by itself. Mass is absolute while weight is relative.

    Rather than using the sum of main intercellular, intracellular, and extracellular fluids which severely underestimate the total amount of water within the human body, a chemical compositional analysis of cells themselves is a much more accurate way of measuring the weight percentage. The cells in an average human body can lose on average 83% of their weight before losing their ability to function. All of your weight is within the cells of your body, thus you can stay alive by equally losing 83% of the water of your cells and dropping your weight by 83% in the process.

    My 83% number comes from this concept.

    Quote Originally Posted by jasonred79 View Post
    Figures show 15% or greater dehydration is usually fatal.
    While true, this is a very obtuse statement. You could have a 1% overall dehydration level and still die from extremely low blood pressure due to over dehydration of blood (water in blood is a main factor for blood pressure levels). The 15% figure is due to most dehydration cases being uncontrolled. Like mentioned above, human beings can lose up to 87% of their cellular water weight (dehydration) and still live. Pigs, who are 99.97% identical to human beings in chemical components and body system functions, have survived from losing 87% of their weight in water in controlled dehydration tests.

    In any case, Hajime no Ippo is at least more realistic than both ES21 and POT.

    Join the movement today.

  5. #25
    jasonred79 is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    Quote Originally Posted by d.A. View Post
    Pigs have survived from losing 87% of their weight in water in controlled dehydration tests.
    ... Seriously? Holy... I had no idea. Could you quote the source on that please? You must admit, for someone who hasn't heard it before, that sounds rather dubious...

    I'm not even sure how you would remove that much water from a pig. Geh.

    ... How long would it survive anyway? I mean, if you remove that much water, wouldn't it's heart stop beating? Since the blood in it's body would have ceased flowing? I'm pretty sceptical that neural impulses can still be transmitted through what must be practically dry tissue.

  6. #26
    Krelush is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    lol @ the arguement.

    They're all unrealistic. Which is more unrealistic than the other is completely relative.

    ES21: Just look at the size of those highschool students.. just like at Kurita for crying out loud. He is bigger than a car. You have a elf devil quarterback. Also, most key characters in other teams look/portray whatever their team is. Chameleons, Gunmen, Golems, Raptors, etc.

    PoT: Watch the first few episodes. He serves the ball and it spins and stops on the line. Yes. It spins on the line. It doesnt bounce, just spins there in place. Find me a person who can do that IRL and I will cut off my... XD

    Slamdunk.. the only unrealistic thing for me was their HEIGHTS. lol

    Is it really important which is more unrealistic than which? They all are unrealistic anyways, but they're all fun to read and interesting. lol

  7. #27
    jasonred79 is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    They weren't unrealistically tall in Slam Dunk were they? 180-200 cm IIRC. Rather tall for japanese, but surely the have a few tall people in Japan...

  8. #28
    jasonred79 is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    I just read d.A.'s posts again and have come to the conclusion that he was just trying to BS using as many bombastic technical terms as he could pull out of the air. Doesn't all that much sense... sigh. Me is gullible. Oh well.

    ... A pig originally 100kg, weighing 1000N... dehydrated and now 75kg and 100N eh. Mwah... a pig balloon! How cute!

  9. #29
    d.A. is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    BS my ass. What do you not get?

    The controlled dehydration test was originally mentioned in a journal titled Review of Physiological Chemistry and was repeated in UC San Francisco and the University of Washington. I’m sure you can find it in an archived copy of medical or physiological journals. Sadly, I don’t remember the exact volume or year.

    They used a combination of moon salt shells on the skin, saline injections on muscle, inhibiting agents for hormones in order to limit the water moving out of vital organs, dry freezing to slow internal functions down, and phyllosilicates to absorb water within other non-essential organs. They basically sucked almost all excess hydrogen and oxygen elements from non-essential organs while leaving the essential organs enough water to function. The brain and heart along with essential organs are left functioning, but others such as muscle, sensory systems, and digestive systems are drained almost completely.

    Theoretically the pigs’ life span is cut to no more than another few weeks of life; however all of them, from what I remember, suffered from hyponatremia and didn’t live much longer after re-hydration. They did however, survive the initial controlled dehydration.

    Your example is disjointed: methane like most other hydrocarbons reacts to create water, oxygen and carbon dioxide. In that example, 50 grams of methane turns into a measurable weight of 13 grams while still maintaining a 50 gram mass. Everything organic is made mostly out of hydrogen carbon compounds like methane.

    Join the movement today.

  10. #30
    jasonred79 is offline Member Frequent Poster
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    ... measurable weight of 13 grams and mass of 50 grams? ... First of all, weight is measured in Newtons, or units of Force. Grams, Kgs, etc are units of mass.

    2nd, you can't change the weight of something by your given methods. Weight = gravitational Force on body from Earth (rough definition very rough) = mass of body x mass of earth x gravitational constant. So unless you're generating your own magical anti-gravity field, your statement is said BS.

    Hmm. Even if you are stating some figures by unresolving atmospheric weight. (which if you're dealing with gasses is a BIG deal, since otherwise you get 1kg of air has a weight of zero N, whereas it actually weighs 1kg but is equally balanced by dispalcement force of 1kg of air), the only way to get 100kg to weigh something like 300 N is for it to be mainly in the form of gasses. In other words, if your pig is still 75% of his initial weight, but 10% of it's "weight"... what you've got is a magical balloon pig inflated to bigger than a bedroom since it's completely full of air.

    ... also... even if parts of your statement are accurate... your statement of "living" and "dehydration" implies that it's "alive" if the heart and brain are functioning (which I doubt since the heart is NOT going to keep beating in your said example unless they separate it from the rest of the cardiovascular system and artificially susticate it, ditto the brain), you could theoratically get a large mammal, near freeze it to slow all processes, swiftly remove the heart and brain, and utterly nuke the rest of the body. WALA. Since you count "reducing a hydrocarbon compound to it's component atoms" then "removing oxygen and hydrogen" as "dehydration" and "alive" as "part of it survived the process... for a while anyway".

    ...

 

 
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