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  1. #31
    Attila Khan is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    My problem with the ending comes from the expectations built up. You make L this god of detectives that can catch anyone. And then Light bests him in a game of wits. But with Near and Mello it was more like a couple of kids trying to prove they're big boys and deserve to have candy whenever they want.(just kidding)

    But there does seem to be more childish behavior and pettiness that little kids have and that really brought the series down. As far as the ending, I have never been so pissed by an ending ever. Near wins? B**ls**t. And Light goes insane trying to kill near as his entire world unravels before Ryuk kills him by writing his name in the Death Note? More B**lsh**t.

    The whole series we see light being super intelligent, Light being steps ahead of everyone, Light being the pinnacle of human intelligence and planning. And he can't out plan the guy who tells him everything including where to be? That's just stupid. I realize some people on here aren't adults yet, but I want to tell you something. In the real world, THE BAD GUYS WIN, ALOT.

    Not all the time mind you but better than 40%. And in this world where Kira had become the law, he should have been the ultimate winner. Because the alternative that is presented is that the world is better to have massive corruption and rampant crime fought by a select few people that can't seem to catch them enough to matter to the everyday person.

    It seems that this is L, Near, and Mello's perfect world that they rule as the ultimate law. That it's okay for a couple of kids and a sweets loving emo investigator to take a world moving away from crime by having a present direct and immediate consequence for wrong doing, and plunge it back into a cesspool that they can play cops and robbers in? Once again and as I end this post B**LS**T.

    NOTE: I censored myself so as not to upset people but still get my point across.
    Last edited by Attila Khan; 05-24-2007 at 07:15 PM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tousen View Post
    Please don't bother. Simple rule: If it wasn't in the manga, it doesn't count.

  2. #32
    Durothill is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    The way Light dies in the end makes perfect sense, he had built up his ego to massive proportions over all the previous chapters and was determined to beat Near in an intellectual battle. Revealing himself to others and using them to kill near would have seemed like a loss to him, on he couldn't tolerate. Not to mention that the idea of Kira will simply not work if he's a known person, he has to be an unknown force.
    As for his plan being faulty, it wasn't, Near admits that had everything gone as light had wished he would have been dead. But you cant count on humans to be completely predictable when left to their own ends, and so by chance Light lost.
    Finally Light losing his cool when faced with his own death like that makes sense too. He never lost his cool before because in chess terms it was merely check, there was a way out still away to win. In the end situation there was none, no matter what he did he was going to die.

  3. #33
    scriver058 is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Quote Originally Posted by Attila Khan View Post
    My problem with the ending comes from the expectations built up. You make L this god of detectives that can catch anyone. And then Light bests him in a game of wits. But with Near and Mello it was more like a couple of kids trying to prove they're big boys and deserve to have candy whenever they want.(just kidding)
    Although Near is awesome, the point of having (M)ello and (N)ear follow L (get it? L,M,N...) is to say that there will ALWAYS be someone around to oppose Kira, and that no one stays on top forever. It was less about the characters, and more about what they represented. Better to end the manga early than take us through an entire alphabet of characters.

    But there does seem to be more childish behavior and pettiness that little kids have and that really brought the series down. As far as the ending, I have never been so pissed by an ending ever. Near wins? B**ls**t. And Light goes insane trying to kill near as his entire world unravels before Ryuk kills him by writing his name in the Death Note? More B**lsh**t.
    Petty, childish behavior by kids? You must include Light as behaving that way too. As a matter of fact, Light is the king of petty childish behavior. For example, volumes 1-12 of the manga.

    The whole series we see light being super intelligent, Light being steps ahead of everyone, Light being the pinnacle of human intelligence and planning. And he can't out plan the guy who tells him everything including where to be? That's just stupid. I realize some people on here aren't adults yet, but I want to tell you something. In the real world, THE BAD GUYS WIN, ALOT.
    I laugh and laugh whenever someone compares a FICTIONAL work to reality, especially one about notebooks that kill and death gods. This seems to be the most popular defense for Light fanboys against the ending, that "OMG EVIL WINS ALMOST ALL THE TIME IRL SO LIGHT SHOULD WIN IN THE FICTIONAL BOOK!!!" Since lots of people seem to forget it, let me remind you that Light's warehouse plan was perfect, as far as him eliminating everyone involved with the murder notebook and rubbing Near's face in his victory before he dies. What fucked it up? Mikami, with his bank crap. Really, Light could've done what many of his fanboys suggested he do, which was have Mikami go to the warehouse, get everyone's name, and kill everyone at a later time. But no, Light had to show Near up and make a big scene of it.

    I don't understand how Light fanboys don't understand this. Yeah, he was brilliant and cunning and all that, but Light wasn't very sensible. He was very immature, arrogant, condescending and an overall brat. Does it really surprise any of you that the manga ended the way it did, with Light undone largely by his own childishness?

    Meh, Light fanboys may never accept this.

    Not all the time mind you but better than 40%. And in this world where Kira had become the law, he should have been the ultimate winner. Because the alternative that is presented is that the world is better to have massive corruption and rampant crime fought by a select few people that can't seem to catch them enough to matter to the everyday person.

    It seems that this is L, Near, and Mello's perfect world that they rule as the ultimate law. That it's okay for a couple of kids and a sweets loving emo investigator to take a world moving away from crime by having a present direct and immediate consequence for wrong doing, and plunge it back into a cesspool that they can play cops and robbers in? Once again and as I end this post B**LS**T.
    Blah, blah, blah, stop it already. A tyrranical dictatorship where one person rules all is wrong. Living your life in fear that Kira's gonna get you is not living, it's merely existing. You can say that on paper Kira's kingdom might be safer, but try actually living in it. Oh sorry, you can't, it doesn't exist.

  4. #34
    Feanor is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    The thing I don't like is that his final plan was not that good. And he had no backup plan.
    No need to let Mikami remember the names and write them down later.
    Just let him tore a page out of the notebook in the beginning (before Near had the chance to get his hands on the notebook).
    And tell Mikami to always keep that page close to his body. That way Light can counter the "switch the notebook" move easily.
    Near can't search Mikami because he needs him for his plan, so the torn out page is safe.

    That's an easy backup clan that Light easily could've come up with. Espacially if you look at his plan to bring down L (from giving up the notebook till using Rem).


    I'm not saying that Light should've survived (Ryuk could've killed him after he defeated Near).
    But the way he lost was not good. His plan didn't live up to the rest of the manga (especially the L arc).
    "For Feanor was made the mightiest in all parts of body and mind, in valour, in endurance, in beauty, in understanding, in skill, in strength and subtlety alike, of all the Children of Illuvatar, and a bright flame was in him"

  5. #35
    Attila Khan is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by scriver058 View Post
    I don't understand how Light fanboys don't understand this. Yeah, he was brilliant and cunning and all that, but Light wasn't very sensible. He was very immature, arrogant, condescending and an overall brat. Does it really surprise any of you that the manga ended the way it did, with Light undone largely by his own childishness?

    Meh, Light fanboys may never accept this.
    Careful there you had me swayed until you went to the fanboy rant. I'm not a fan boy of light. I said very intricately that the ending didn't fit how the manga developed. I personally thought he should die at some point but the way it was done was IMHO rushed and improper given what we had been treated to previously. Again if you look at what I was actually saying, not your opinion on the beliefs of someone you don't know.

    I was saying the manga gives you a structure of Light the one step ahead mastermind that is supposed to beat everyone. And to end it in the normal almost American style of the Criminal mastermind goes insane, reveals his entire plan, and someone or something other than the hero, in this case lead detective Near, kills him, which in this case is Ryuk. Not only was it anti the message the manga had been sending, but it was contrary to everyone's actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by scriver058 View Post
    A tyrranical dictatorship where one person rules all is wrong. Living your life in fear that Kira's gonna get you is not living, it's merely existing. You can say that on paper Kira's kingdom might be safer, but try actually living in it. Oh sorry, you can't, it doesn't exist.
    And with that you defeat your own point about me talking about a fictional world. Of course it doesn't work in real life which is why the concept of Kira winning actually made sense, because in reality, life isn't so bad that either group needs to exist. All three Kira's and the Alphabet detective present world views that are not only too far skewed to be plausible, but neither is the right answer. Both rely on one supreme embodiment of justice. You just happen to favor the covert rule of L in a traditional policing form to the overt rule of Kira in a King/God form.

    And if you want to continue making counter arguments to my points, I simply ask for respect in them. Labeling me a fanboy because my opinion is different on the things happened is not an example of it. Throughout this post you'll find no name calling, not anywhere. I also only used your points to counter with. I ask that you do the same.

    I'm not saying that Light should've survived (Ryuk could've killed him after he defeated Near).
    But the way he lost was not good. His plan didn't live up to the rest of the manga (especially the L arc).
    I would have done something like that. Something like having him find out that he was meant to die the next day as he revealed himself to the world.
    Last edited by Attila Khan; 05-27-2007 at 09:27 PM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tousen View Post
    Please don't bother. Simple rule: If it wasn't in the manga, it doesn't count.

  6. #36
    scriver058 is offline Senior Member Well Known
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    Quote Originally Posted by Attila Khan View Post
    Careful there you had me swayed until you went to the fanboy rant. I'm not a fan boy of light. I said very intricately that the ending didn't fit how the manga developed. I personally thought he should die at some point but the way it was done was IMHO rushed and improper given what we had been treated to previously. Again if you look at what I was actually saying, not your opinion on the beliefs of someone you don't know.
    I did look at what you said, and you come off as a Light fanboy. Saying stuff like "Light is the pinnacle of human intelligence and planning", when that point is clearly arguable, makes you seem as such.



    I was saying the manga gives you a structure of Light the one step ahead mastermind that is supposed to beat everyone. And to end it in the normal almost American style of the Criminal mastermind goes insane, reveals his entire plan, and someone or something other than the hero, in this case lead detective Near, kills him, which in this case is Ryuk. Not only was it anti the message the manga had been sending, but it was contrary to everyone's actions.
    But he wasn't always one step ahead, he fucked up a lot throughout the series. And like i've said before, if Light did indeed have a cliched end, it's only because he himself became a cliched tyrant-dictator type character, where his character was clearly headed. Once again, not surprising at all how Light's end came about.



    And with that you defeat your own point about me talking about a fictional world. Of course it doesn't work in real life which is why the concept of Kira winning actually made sense, because in reality, life isn't so bad that either group needs to exist. All three Kira's and the Alphabet detective present world views that are not only too far skewed to be plausible, but neither is the right answer. Both rely on one supreme embodiment of justice. You just happen to favor the covert rule of L in a traditional policing form to the overt rule of Kira in a King/God form.
    Actually, if you'll reread what I said, I did not get behind either a Kira type civilization or, as you put it, the covert rule of L. But if I did have to get behind one, clearly it would be L. He isn't threatening to kill me if I get lazy. Furthermore, to suggest that Kira's rule and the "covert" rule of an L are like 2sides of the same coin is unfair. Kira eventually would've most likely been the ultimate, uncontested ruler of the planet. L would've worked with the police, not over them, and the police or government had no need to bow down to L; they were not forced to work with him or accept him like they would've with Kira.



    And if you want to continue making counter arguments to my points, I simply ask for respect in them. Labeling me a fanboy because my opinion is different on the things happened is not an example of it. Throughout this post you'll find no name calling, not anywhere. I also only used your points to counter with. I ask that you do the same.
    Being a fanboy is bad? I judged it by your arguments, which are so pro-Light that you can't even fathom how he lost to Near. If it makes you feel better, call me a Near fanboy, since he is awesome, and took down Light. I, however, am real about my character: I know he is not able to do what he did without what the real L did before him, nor was he the smartest character in the series.

  7. #37
    bagsan is offline Junior Member Newbie
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    The ending was ok since Light finally got what he deserved, and at the hands of Ryuk too. I could not think of a better character other than Ryuk who should put an end to Light. I was like "Go Ryuk!" XD

    But it would have been better if L (Ryuzaki) lived until the end to see Light's defeat. Mello and Near were fine, but it just isn't the same without the original L.

    "If I lose here, I think I will regret it."

  8. #38
    Attila Khan is offline Senior Member Long Time Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by scriver058 View Post
    I did look at what you said, and you come off as a Light fanboy. Saying stuff like "Light is the pinnacle of human intelligence and planning", when that point is clearly arguable, makes you seem as such.
    I'll address this as the rest of what you said either stems from it or is pure conjecture on either of our parts.

    Look at what I actually said, That the series leads us into this perception of Light. Obviously the same can be said of L being the quintessential detective, all that is right with police. I choose to address the perception of Light/Kira because his end is the controversial one. And is why I was unimpressed with the ending. And that's why I posted in the thread.

    And yes randomly calling someone a fanboy is name calling. It's a baseless generalization that you used in a manner meant to demean the overall value of my opinion on the matter. I can honestly I liked the overall affect of the manga's cast on each other. No one character worked for me without the other. I guess if I had to pick a fave Ryuk would be the one. Anyone who can follow Light around watching and not ruin his life by telling him when he's going to die is great to watch. Plus he gives a great objective view.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tousen View Post
    Please don't bother. Simple rule: If it wasn't in the manga, it doesn't count.

  9. #39
    Sherman is offline Senior Member Always Around
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    Alright, just for my two cents...

    With the exception of the fact that Misa's conclusion was completely neglected, and the huge cop-out over Nothingness after death, the ending was good, and played out perfectly well considering the buildup.

    Scriver seems to be more or less on the right track, so I'll just leave it to you, captain.

 

 
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